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  1. #51
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    Since I will only be buying one console this time, it takes the sting out of paying for online.


  2. #52
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    Still can't believe it's pay to play!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemit View Post
    Sigh... This pisses me off...

    I don't understand why pay to play is required...

    If there are servers involved for the games, then... ok... I can see that...

    But if I remember correctly, online play is peer to peer connections between all the playstations that want to play together... no server use involved...

    Now... if Galkai is included with ps+... then I'll take ps+.. but even then.. any ONLINE GAME that is PEER TO PEER should be free! Otherwise NO!

    Sigh...
    Kelemit
    There ARE servers required for most games. Remember Warhawk and others having issues because they needed more servers installed? SOME games are peer to peer but most aren't. Dark Souls and Demon Souls were the only games that come to mind that were actually peer to peer as far as I recall and they were less reliable as far as being able to match up with someone consistently as a result.

    Bottom line, this hasn't been confirmed but even if it is, I don't mind. It IS a natural evolution especially if they're going to be adding many more services, etc. And it's still a CHOICE, unlike with Microsoft. Being able to generate positive cash flow is one of the only ways for Sony to be able to guarantee they can continue to make improvements when and if needed. I also have to wonder if since multiplayer is mentioned, PS+ would also be required to do voice/video chat or send emails? I would logically think so, but that isn't mentioned, so it's possible that this is ONLY for multiplayer gaming. I also think it's likely that the general Gaikai service will be wrapped up in this as well with people then just paying for actual content they use. it might even be required for some type of discount or verification that you own a particular PS3 title in order for you to be able to play it via Gaikai for free or at a good discount.

    Admittedly, I see this as a way smaller issue since I already have PS+. Really, unless it's a matter of finances for you, PS+ is and has been a really killer deal. Change is rarely all fun and games (pardon the pun) and maybe it's also viewing this possible requirement thru the lens of the draconian new policies MS is forcing on it's "loyal customers" that makes me think it's really no big deal as well.

    I say possible only because this wasn't mentioned anywhere else other than that video and since the voice/video chat and other things were left out I just wonder if this wasn't some plan that they shelved last minute and didn't have time to or forgot to take out of material like that ad or not. Until confirmed by direct question I'm just not positive it's true at this time.

    If it is, I would definitely feel for those for whom this presents a barrier. I have to believe though that Sony would have some plan for people to have $5 a month auto debited or something to make it even less of a burden for people? We will see, I guess.

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  5. #54
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    It's a bit different from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemit View Post
    Sigh... This pisses me off...

    I don't understand why pay to play is required...

    If there are servers involved for the games, then... ok... I can see that...

    But if I remember correctly, online play is peer to peer connections between all the playstations that want to play together... no server use involved...

    Now... if Galkai is included with ps+... then I'll take ps+.. but even then.. any ONLINE GAME that is PEER TO PEER should be free! Otherwise NO!

    Sigh...
    Kelemit
    Nah, Server is always synchronizing games data as well. and MM is not coordinated among 4+ connections, is coordinated at server and copied out. Peer for Peer is INEFFICIENT exponentially as players multiply. Also, who's going to track your trophy's? Your paying a nominal fee, not per game.

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by daLa View Post
    Fark off Sony, awful move and yes it is true.
    "PS4 gamers who arenít Plus members can still enjoy single-player games for freeÖand access to media services wonít require Plus"
    Source Twitter PlayStation.
    Wow, so it IS just SOLEY for online multi-player and things like Netflix and audio/video chats and email won't require PS+? If that's the case then it's pretty much just to help them cover and recoup costs for the network and server costs, etc. As I said before, it's also possibly to mitigate the costs of the Gaikai service as well. Anyone else impressed that the Gaikai plans are so far along that they're saying PS4 will be able to play many PS3 titles as well? I think that's awesome. Was planning on keeping my PS3 hooked up, for Dark Souls 2 at the very least, but if I could play the games I want, including DS 2 on my PS4 thru Gaikai, sign me up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    There ARE servers required for most games. Remember Warhawk and others having issues because they needed more servers installed? SOME games are peer to peer but most aren't. Dark Souls and Demon Souls were the only games that come to mind that were actually peer to peer as far as I recall and they were less reliable as far as being able to match up with someone consistently as a result.

    SNIP
    If you read my second reply, you will see I agreed with you...

    But there are some things that worry me.

    I pointed out INfamous 2 player made missions, which would require a download location, true.... but every website in the world works on the same principle... and server connection on something like that would be seconds per day per person.... average... for $5 a month? sigh... I pay $5 to connect to your server for MAYBE 3 minutes ~ 5 minutes in A MONTH!

    street fighter and tekken? Really... i'll have to pay for that too?

    Just saying...

    now resistance servers... THATS FINE!!! I GET THAT!... Like I said... if they require servers, fine...

    But if not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    Wow, so it IS just SOLEY for online multi-player and things like Netflix and audio/video chats and email won't require PS+? If that's the case then it's pretty much just to help them cover and recoup costs for the network and server costs, etc. As I said before, it's also possibly to mitigate the costs of the Gaikai service as well. Anyone else impressed that the Gaikai plans are so far along that they're saying PS4 will be able to play many PS3 titles as well? I think that's awesome. Was planning on keeping my PS3 hooked up, for Dark Souls 2 at the very least, but if I could play the games I want, including DS 2 on my PS4 thru Gaikai, sign me up!
    yup... gaikai is seeming real cool to me...

    If its included with PS+.. i'll be SOO happy ha!

    And yeah... paying for the servers ... like I said before... i understand! lol...

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath View Post
    Will people EVER be happy? Seriously, we get a far lower price than what MS is requesting, yet an even more powerful console with no DRM. Who the hell cares for payed online (which will make the service far better anyways)?

    Do you want to get everything shoved down your throats for free?
    This times 1,000!!! PS Plus is already a really awesome deal anyways.

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  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemit View Post
    If you read my second reply, you will see I agreed with you...

    But there are some things that worry me.

    I pointed out INfamous 2 player made missions, which would require a download location, true.... but every website in the world works on the same principle... and server connection on something like that would be seconds per day per person.... average... for $5 a month? sigh... I pay $5 to connect to your server for MAYBE 3 minutes ~ 5 minutes in A MONTH!

    street fighter and tekken? Really... i'll have to pay for that too?

    Just saying...

    now resistance servers... THATS FINE!!! I GET THAT!... Like I said... if they require servers, fine...

    But if not...
    Yeah, I didn't see that other post before I posted, sorry. No biggie. I see your point as well and I really don't know. I do think that this is probably just to help them provide better infrastructure without bleeding money and possibly to help cover a deal with Gaikai so there's no additional fees for that besides purchasing or renting (or whatever you do with Gaikai to play games they host) but that's wild speculation. Still it's a move that analysts have predicted and/or recommended for Sony almost since the inception of PS+ so it's not a huge surprise. Not to say that it won't be or isn't painful for everyone, if not to varying degrees.

    Personally, I got PS+ on the free trial and forgot to cancel. By the time I realized it, about 6 months had gone by and then they started giving me so many games I actually enjoyed (June's free games are pretty crazy by the way) that I just felt it was a huge value that more than paid for itself so haven't give it a second thought. Then again, I never thought MS was "evil" for charging their $5 per month for Gold either, though I thought it was stupid that you can't even browse the web or view content they advertise as "free" without that same membership. I DO think the way MS has forced online access on everyone for the Xbox One is wrong though.

    Still, I understand people who aren't overjoyed at this news from Sony. Any change that gives someone a strong nudge and/or forces them to spend extra money in pretty much any amount is not going to be met with resounding cheers and probably shouldn't be. Still more reasonable than MS by a long shot, but that doesn't make it CandyLand. I understand.

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    Im not bothered by it. Look at it this way, The experience may immulate what xbgold is like. Plus its way cheaper. No drm, can share games just as before, play used games just as before. Im ok with a small fee if I choose to do multi player. It's about choice for me. I like that, and I get to get a powerful machine that is cheaper than xbone that will mostly have the same games. Sure xbone showed metal gear solid 5 first, its a multiplat game. It isn't exlusive to xbox. And most of those xbone exlusives aren't going to be released until 2014 anyway. I wasn't even impressed with the exlusives they showed anyway for xbone. I would have liked to have watched the sony pre show but I had to work. All I saw was the price, the ability to share, play used games as before and I was sold. I saw a small charge for online play but I'm not bothered by it. Yeah the free play now is great but its a small compromise for what you are getting if you really weigh everything out.

  13. #61
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    Far as I've read, it's only pay to play for the ps4. I think Gaikai is part of the ps+ package, would suck if it's another subscription altogether. But the free monthly games are more than enough value imo. I had already planned to buy an annual ps+ subscription with the ps4 (after upgrading my internet of course), so really not an issue for me.

  14. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugerRellP89 View Post
    This times 1,000!!! PS Plus is already a really awesome deal anyways.
    it was that awesome i let mine expire

    its not that big a deal really, $5 a month really isn't that much especially if you can afford broadband....
    i think people are just taking a somewhat conservative stance on the matter.
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    I don't mind paying for online. I've been doing with the 360 for 3 years. Doesn't bother me.
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  16. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    Im not bothered by it. Look at it this way, The experience may immulate what xbgold is like. Plus its way cheaper. No drm, can share games just as before, play used games just as before. Im ok with a small fee if I choose to do multi player. It's about choice for me. I like that, and I get to get a powerful machine that is cheaper than xbone that will mostly have the same games. Sure xbone showed metal gear solid 5 first, its a multiplat game. It isn't exlusive to xbox. And most of those xbone exlusives aren't going to be released until 2014 anyway. I wasn't even impressed with the exlusives they showed anyway for xbone. I would have liked to have watched the sony pre show but I had to work. All I saw was the price, the ability to share, play used games as before and I was sold. I saw a small charge for online play but I'm not bothered by it. Yeah the free play now is great but its a small compromise for what you are getting if you really weigh everything out.
    Yep, I agree completely. I just get that people aren't likely to be all smiles about a change that "forces" them to spend pretty much ANY amount of extra money. I really hope that Gaikai IS included with PS+ as well (at least except for actually buying a game, etc.) but we'll see. Again, I think this is much easier to swallow given the news we've all gotten from MS that was so incredible that almost everyone was denying it's possibility until it was made official. I really think MS shot themselves there. Not in the head maybe, but definitely not just in the foot. Maybe a good solid gut wound that has a possibility of recovery but not good betting odds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Phat View Post
    Before claims there is a paywall, lets here an official statement from Sony first because I don't remember Jack Tretton saying this at all. Jack Tretton will be on Spike tomorrow so maybe he will clarify it there because you know the journalists will ask.
    Good. We'll probably get some straight answers for once, too

    I can accept an online fee, but atleast make people feel good about it.. Maybe even allow certain games too be played without such a fee (fighters, online coop 3'rd party games, etc)

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    Lol @jphuff!

    Anyway, I agree with all the stuff you guys have been saying.

    With servers, yes.
    And yes, the extra games are really really cool... but you know what?
    I really just want to hop on LB3~4~5? whichever comes out in the next couple years, and play a game with 2 or 3 players without having to pay ... LBP doesn't use servers, if I remember correctly... but i'm not going to be able to do that anymore...

    I don't care how good a deal + is... it is a good deal... i don't have a problem with it... I think its cool... i was thinking about getting it myself anyway, etc etc etc...

    But being a good deal or not is NOT the issue...

    Even paying to play server based games, again, NOT an issue ... i've played enough MMOs for the past 10 years... i understand the concept and the necessity...

    so... yeah... anyway...
    sigh...
    Kelemit

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  20. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    This is $#@!ing great news! Watching the backpedaling and selling out of principles is PRICELESS! We even get the same excuses from them as we did with Xbox Live users (Mow a few lawns..... the cost of a Starbucks coffee..... less then the cost of a fast food meal...etc etc.). Watching crow being eaten is fun.


    Beyond the fun of watching the sheer abandonment of principles here....... this is good for Sony's online in the end. That's money they can use to improve the service!
    Seriously try harder. This is coming from the same person raging Sony for losing their way even since ps1. Yet you have not once raged on MS for their lost way! You even go to the extent to verify that XBone is going to be your primary console and simply laugh off all the legitimate concerns people have had with condescending remarks. All is still sunshine and rainbows just like it was before any of this DRM crap was confirmed. If you don't think taking away the customers choices in how they buy their games is losing their way from the previous generation I don't know what they have to do to piss you off.




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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    This is $#@!ing great news! Watching the backpedaling and selling out of principles is PRICELESS! We even get the same excuses from them as we did with Xbox Live users (Mow a few lawns..... the cost of a Starbucks coffee..... less then the cost of a fast food meal...etc etc.). Watching crow being eaten is fun.


    Beyond the fun of watching the sheer abandonment of principles here....... this is good for Sony's online in the end. That's money they can use to improve the service!

    LOL. Too funny, man. Bitter much? Don't take it so hard man. Companies can't do the "right thing" as we see it all the time. And they make mistakes too. Just play what you want to play and like what you want to like and don't get so emotionally invested in "things." They really don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. So far it looks like third consoles are a stumbling block to some degree to both MS and Sony.

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    I still don't like the pay to play requirements next gen is forcing on us all. I've never paid to play online (even MMO's) and I certainly didn't want to start now. I am willing to sell out though. I want to game, and if I want to keep gaming, then I just need to go along with it. Sure I could refuse to do so, but there simply will be too many people willing to pay (especially xbox converts) that my refusal to buy the system wont mean anything (and I'm sorry, it's not logical to argue that "the only reason enough people wont boycott the change is because too many people will buy the system." In an ideal world, that logic would work. This is the real world, however, and it's just fact that people are going to buy this. PS+ offers some good stuff, and people are just used to paying to play online. Seems to be something I missed out on. I spent a few hours talking to my best friend, and some other friends about the pay-wall, and frankly, none of them care. Even the non-microsoft gamers, as they are all used to MMO subscription fees. I really hoped I wouldn't see Sony charge, but it was an inevitable change. I doubt I will ever like it, but I will grow to accept it, and I'll recognize the benefits it will provide for both gamers and the company.
    Disclaimer: This is in no way "selling out" on my principles. I have stated before that I don't like being forced to pay to play something after I've bought the actual game, but I have also stated before that I recognize the benefit to doing so. It is good business, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Seriously try harder. This is coming from the same person raging Sony for losing their way even since ps1. Yet you have not once raged on MS for their lost way! You even go to the extent to verify that XBone is going to be your primary console and simply laugh off all the legitimate concerns people have had with condescending remarks. All is still sunshine and rainbows just like it was before any of this DRM crap was confirmed. If you don't think taking away the customers choices in how they buy their games is losing their way from the previous generation I don't know what they have to do to piss you off.
    I laugh off the concerns of people that weren't fans of the Xbox in the first place. You know... the ones that PRETEND they are interested in it.....only to dump on it almost daily for months before it was even debuted to the public? If it wasn't one thing they were gonna rip it apart for it would have been another. Microsoft was never gonna win most of these folks over even if the console gave blow jobs.

    I'm just glad the WE HAVE FREE ONLINE GAMING bullet point is now gone. Heard it for the last 7+ years. I guess Sony DOES copy Microsoft after all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatesServant View Post
    I still don't like the pay to play requirements next gen is forcing on us all. I've never paid to play online (even MMO's) and I certainly didn't want to start now. I am willing to sell out though. I want to game, and if I want to keep gaming, then I just need to go along with it. Sure I could refuse to do so, but there simply will be too many people willing to pay (especially xbox converts) that my refusal to buy the system wont mean anything (and I'm sorry, it's not logical to argue that "the only reason enough people wont boycott the change is because too many people will buy the system." In an ideal world, that logic would work. This is the real world, however, and it's just fact that people are going to buy this. PS+ offers some good stuff, and people are just used to paying to play online. Seems to be something I missed out on. I spent a few hours talking to my best friend, and some other friends about the pay-wall, and frankly, none of them care. Even the non-microsoft gamers, as they are all used to MMO subscription fees. I really hoped I wouldn't see Sony charge, but it was an inevitable change. I doubt I will ever like it, but I will grow to accept it, and I'll recognize the benefits it will provide for both gamers and the company.
    Disclaimer: This is in no way "selling out" on my principles. I have stated before that I don't like being forced to pay to play something after I've bought the actual game, but I have also stated before that I recognize the benefit to doing so. It is good business, after all.
    -FatesServant
    Very true. Very few solutions in business are totally ideal and everything costs something. Saying acceptance of something like this is selling out your principles would be ridiculous. PS+ has been a loss leader for Sony for a long time and is only getting more so as they include bigger and newer titles in the giveaways (June's freebies are pretty crazy). Only makes sense to turn it into a way to help build infrastructure like MS has been doing. I think this may well also end up covering the Gaikai service (besides the actual purchase or rental of the games). Either way as you said, it's probably a necessary move and while the change isn't ideal from the customer point of view, it is ideal from Sony's.

    I'm curious to get more detail on this. So far it appears that the video/audio chat features, web browsing, etc. aren't included in the "need PS+" category which seems odd to me. I know on the 360 I can download and install IE but not web browse without gold and the same for video content advertised as free so it would surprise me if Sony didn't include all those online services under the paid umbrella if they're making this change.
    Last edited by jphuff; 06-11-2013 at 08:07. Reason: added info on other online services to post.

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    I've been a PSN+ member since it debuted so it doesn't affect me much.. Heck, I don't even play online so my PSN+ is strictly for the goodies SONY has been providing on both Vita and PS3...

    It $#@!ing sucks for everyone else tho.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    I laugh off the concerns of people that weren't fans of the Xbox in the first place. You know... the ones that PRETEND they are interested in it.....only to dump on it almost daily for months before it was even debuted to the public? If it wasn't one thing they were gonna rip it apart for it would have been another. Microsoft was never gonna win most of these folks over even if the console gave blow jobs.

    I'm just glad the WE HAVE FREE ONLINE GAMING bullet point is now gone. Heard it for the last 7+ years. I guess Sony DOES copy Microsoft after all!
    Much like the xbox elites bashing psn for how $#@!ty it was compared to xbox live. Saying it's worth the price. Been hearing that for 7 years now. BTW... MS stole Plus idea. They are giving you two free games a month with gold. Sounds familiar. I'm done with the conversation. You can rabble on like always if you like.




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  28. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Much like the xbox elites bashing psn for how $#@!ty it was compared to xbox live. Saying it's worth the price. Been hearing that for 7 years now. BTW... MS stole Plus idea. They are giving you two free games a month with gold. Sounds familiar. I'm done with the conversation. You can rabble on like always if you like.

    That's only for the months leading up to the launch, starting July 1st. They never said it would go beyond that and actually be a standard.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  29. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Much like the xbox elites bashing psn for how $#@!ty it was compared to xbox live. Saying it's worth the price. Been hearing that for 7 years now. BTW... MS stole Plus idea. They are giving you two free games a month with gold. Sounds familiar. I'm done with the conversation. You can rabble on like always if you like.
    But it was Sony fans that were always pissed when Microsoft copied.... Xbox fans were never pissed when Sony copied Microsoft. They would always remind them that EVERYBODY copies.

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