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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Well it did on PS3. I wasn't interested in the features PS+ brought and so never bought it. All I want to do is play the game that I just paid $60 for online. Defend Sony all you want but at the end of the day they're not getting my money after this decision. Simple as that. I'll be getting my entertainment elsewhere next gen.
    Yeah and that's fine, it's your opinion and if that's what you want then I understand your choice. The only thing I'm trying to point out is that Sony is trying to make a better PSN with a lot of really awesome features, and therefore a better PSN will cost more money. It doesn't make sense for Sony as a business to continue to give away everything for free when those cost go up. I know it's not ideal for us as consumers because we all want things to be cheaper, but thankfully Sony knows this and is giving a great value in return for that. I understand that if those features or the free Plus games and discounts don't interest you though, and only online play does, then paying for PS+ doesn't make a ton of sense to you. It sucks that you don't want to get a PS4 because of it, because there's going to be a lot of awesome games you won't be able to play, but I understand.

  2. #52
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    Basic online play should have been free minus the bells & whistles of competitive multiplayer. Hell, don't track our stats but let us play online!

  3. #53
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    Yep, a very bare bones PSN with online would have sold me the console, but as of now I'd rather spend my money buying a ton of PS3 games I've missed, so not really ditching Sony as a customer after the past 17 years or whatever it is, but as far as PS4 goes, nope.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDug13
    I want Naughty Dog to explore new game genres, not regurgitate cinematic corridor shooters for another generation.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazy psu View Post
    ^ but if you predominantly play online multiplayer like i do permanently online is not a problem but dedicated servers is a huge plus with the xbone, just something for people to think about.
    is every game going to use dedicated servers, has that been confirmed? because I know for a fact a majority of games I played on 360 were p2p


  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    I'm not amused Yoshida, I'm not amused at all! I do not buy for a second that the PSN infrastructure requires a subscription charge to break even, just as I never believed it about XBL. It's bull$#@!. The expensive thing about running online gaming are servers, and publishers do that. Directly financed by game sales.

    People point to the fact that PS3 had dodgy online at times, but this was a software issue - the console was not designed as a truly online system.

    However, Planetisde 2 not requiring a subscription is music to my ears and I hope other publishers are able to follow suit on that

    also
    I'm glad he clarified this, it was the biggest question I had. Looks like I can buy the console and enjoy the games as intended without subscribing
    LMAO, you really dont understand the cost of things do you? granted yes they are probably charging more then they need to, but being in the field.. its a lot of money to maintain the hardware.

    /
    //M3

  6. #56
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    To me the addition of online play to PS+ is a good thing. It will assure that online play will be more stable and reliable. I also think it will be a little more exclusive which is a good thing as well. No cheapos allowed!!! Also with the addition of Drive Club albeit a version that won't have all the cars and tracks it will have all the online and offline features of the full game which makes PS+ worth it for me as other games will follow suit.

    I mean if your so cheap that you can't go without 1 Big Mac extra value meal a month to have a better online experience then so be it...

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Yep, a very bare bones PSN with online would have sold me the console, but as of now I'd rather spend my money buying a ton of PS3 games I've missed, so not really ditching Sony as a customer after the past 17 years or whatever it is, but as far as PS4 goes, nope.
    With that stance you will be playing your ps3 forever as paying for online is hear to stay. You can bet your life that every generation from every console manufacturer from this day forward will have a pay wall to get online. And to say that PS+ has no features that interest you then you must not play many games... As of now there are many +A titles included as well as tons of discounts of add-ons and exclusive betas... You really just being cheap IMO and refuse to admit it.

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin Joker View Post
    With that stance you will be playing your ps3 forever as paying for online is hear to stay.
    ...Except on Wii U and PC.

    You can bet your life that every generation from every console manufacturer from this day forward will have a pay wall to get online. And to say that PS+ has no features that interest you then you must not play many games...
    I play plenty of games, games that I like to own, not rent.

    ]As of now there are many +A titles included as well as tons of discounts of add-ons and exclusive betas... You really just being cheap IMO and refuse to admit it.
    Or maybe I rather spend money on other things? I spend my money on what I want, I don't see value in having to pay for online, paying $60 for a game should be enough money to run that games' servers.

    Also your attitude towards poor people is disgusting, I can afford to pay for PS+ (I won't) but there are plenty of people who have more than enough bills and maybe don't want to add to that. So keep your close minded thoughts to yourself, people are constantly losing their jobs in this day and age, are you gonna talk $#@! about them too? smh
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDug13
    I want Naughty Dog to explore new game genres, not regurgitate cinematic corridor shooters for another generation.

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  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    ...Except on Wii U and PC.



    I play plenty of games, games that I like to own, not rent.



    Or maybe I rather spend money on other things? I spend my money on what I want, I don't see value in having to pay for online, paying $60 for a game should be enough money to run that games' servers.

    Also your attitude towards poor people is disgusting, I can afford to pay for PS+ (I won't) but there are plenty of people who have more than enough bills and maybe don't want to add to that. So keep your close minded thoughts to yourself, people are constantly losing their jobs in this day and age, are you gonna talk $#@! about them too? smh
    Never said a word about poor people just cheap ones... And if your not working its by choice as there are plenty of jobs.. Maybe not the one you want but there is work.

    I also said every CONSOLE from THIS day forward.. Does not include Wii U and PC... And you do own the games, as long as your a subscriber.. U can delete and re download as much as you want they never go away even if you discontinue your PS+ and then re activate everything you already downloaded is still there...

    You being hard headed and cheap man!!! ADMIT IT!!!

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  11. #60
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    It's called spending his money wisely....

  12. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by B18DelSolT View Post
    LMAO, you really dont understand the cost of things do you? granted yes they are probably charging more then they need to, but being in the field.. its a lot of money to maintain the hardware.
    A damn sight more than you, I'd bet

    PSN pays for itself by ways of having a $#@!ing store that makes rather a lot of money for Sony. You know, just like every other online service that isn't Xbox Live. The only thing sadder than them pleading poverty like this is the people who believe that it's necessary.

  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    A damn sight more than you, I'd bet

    PSN pays for itself by ways of having a $#@!ing store that makes rather a lot of money for Sony. You know, just like every other online service that isn't Xbox Live. The only thing sadder than them pleading poverty like this is the people who believe that it's necessary.
    LMAO, what do you think it costs them to host all this information, to have servers dedicated for cross game chat? its not free, its actually really damn expensive... and i highly doubt you know more than I as i do this for a living. Why do you think live has always charged, because they couldn't have done it without charging and make money. Keep in mind, they are all in this to make money.... not for us.

    I think the approach should have been what was rumored before, PS+ you get cross game chat, vs non you dont. I think some people are getting a little to bent out of shape about this whole internet thing. if you want to play online.. well guess what, no matter what you say/do... your going to have to pay

    /
    //M3

  14. #63
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    All the free games that you will get is way worth the price for the Plus in my opinion

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    The cost of doing business should be reflected in the price of a product. Something integral to modern gaming like multiplayer (because today's player's apparently demand it tacked onto every type of game conceivable) should be included in the price. Tacit collusion in which businesses engage are cover they give to each other (other company charges, so should we in order for customer to value product or service). If gen x/y/millenials weren't so engaged with social, perhaps Sony wouldn't have felt compelled to upgrade their infrastructure to such an extent.

    PS4 is using existing technology - architecture on SoC process. SoC has been around for a while with mobile, embedded, and integrated pc systems. Because of the greatly reduced complexity, bucket load of RAM, and pc toolchain availability, I expected games to cost about the same as pc games which typically are not $60.00. With money coming in from hardware, retail, online store, plus dev fees, I can't see why this stuff isn't included with games costing $60.00. In addition, we're not hearing what devs will be targeting fro resolution - 720p/60 fps, 1080/30, 1080/60, 3D, polycount? So is there an actual increase in the cost of development that would cause games to cost more?

    Nickel and diming gamers is not sustainable; ref the popularity of mobile gaming. Cheap, accessible, digestible. Locking basic game play - which multiplayer now is - behind a pay wall will continue to bite into console gaming's audience. The consumer may eventually revolt if manufacturers and devs don't hold the line on retail pricing. I hope they can; I enjoy the ease of console gaming.

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  17. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by B18DelSolT View Post
    LMAO, what do you think it costs them to host all this information, to have servers dedicated for cross game chat? its not free, its actually really damn expensive... and i highly doubt you know more than I as i do this for a living. Why do you think live has always charged, because they couldn't have done it without charging and make money. Keep in mind, they are all in this to make money.... not for us.

    I think the approach should have been what was rumored before, PS+ you get cross game chat, vs non you dont. I think some people are getting a little to bent out of shape about this whole internet thing. if you want to play online.. well guess what, no matter what you say/do... your going to have to pay
    lol you don't need servers dedicated to cross game chat. They could chose to if they wanted like Ventrilo, but it's totally unnecessary. Oh but guess what... Ventrilo is free for up to 8 people....

    Operational costs are not significant compared to the revenue you are making off the platform as a whole. Like I said, the way every other online gaming (and not just gaming) service operates, except XBL. Why do gamers try so hard to pretend these corporations are paupers? They don't need extra funds to support their bloody online service. Microsoft make a $#@! ton of profit from gold subscriptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Univac View Post
    The cost of doing business should be reflected in the price of a product. Something integral to modern gaming like multiplayer (because today's player's apparently demand it tacked onto every type of game conceivable) should be included in the price. Tacit collusion in which businesses engage are cover they give to each other (other company charges, so should we in order for customer to value product or service). If gen x/y/millenials weren't so engaged with social, perhaps Sony wouldn't have felt compelled to upgrade their infrastructure to such an extent.
    Well said absolutely agree.

  18. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    I'm not amused Yoshida, I'm not amused at all! I do not buy for a second that the PSN infrastructure requires a subscription charge to break even, just as I never believed it about XBL. It's bull$#@!. The expensive thing about running online gaming are servers, and publishers do that. Directly financed by game sales.

    People point to the fact that PS3 had dodgy online at times, but this was a software issue - the console was not designed as a truly online system.

    However, Planetisde 2 not requiring a subscription is music to my ears and I hope other publishers are able to follow suit on that

    also
    I'm glad he clarified this, it was the biggest question I had. Looks like I can buy the console and enjoy the games as intended without subscribing
    XBL does not allow publishers to use their own servers- except for EA from what I've read (they threw an epic $#@! fit and MS caved). All servers are operated\owned by MS.

    Don't get me wrong, I do not and have never viewed XBL as a "bargain" for what I pay. PSN, especially PS+, to me has always been of greater overall value (and I say the same for the PS3 as a machine vis a vis 360).

    That being said, there can be little doubt that the reliability of PSN is not quite up to snuff compared to XBL. Microsoft is making a tidy profit off of its user base and Sony, like any company, wants a piece of that action if it can get away with it.

    So long as they make it worth my while I'm willing to look past the issue. If PS+ is still as awesome as it is for me on PS3\PS Vita then its less of an issue since I'm already a subscriber. But having the option of NOT being a plus member and still doing competitive multiplayer would be a far better scenario.

    This kind of change was, I suppose, inevitable.. Not happy about it. It was the only aspect of the PS4 reveal that was a buzz kill for me.

    They'd better reaaaaaaaaally make it worth my money. Hell, Xbox Live finally clued in that free -real- content is kind of cool and are offering 2 free games per month.

    C'mon Sony, up the ante.


    Edit: Isn't PS+ technically cheaper than XBL still?
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 06-21-2013 at 03:10.


  19. #67
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    Yeah PS+ is cheaper. Unless you do what I used to do which was let your account go Silver then go on their site and get the two months for two bucks. Then shut off auto pay. When your Gold expires then rinse and repeat. lol

  20. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Yeah PS+ is cheaper. Unless you do what I used to do which was let your account go Silver then go on their site and get the two months for two bucks. Then shut off auto pay. When your Gold expires then rinse and repeat. lol
    Pretty much the same thing I did, except I had bookmarked one of their emails for 1 month for $1. Let my account lapse the pay $1 whenever I needed to use live. Hated how I had do disable auto renew every single time tho lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Edit: Isn't PS+ technically cheaper than XBL still?
    Technically PS+ is cheaper since Live is "supposed" to be 59.99 but you can find 12 month subs online EVERYWHERE for 40-50 which is the same-less then what Sony is charging for PS+. Only deal I ever seen for PS+ is sometime around the 1 year mark since it inception, you will see on the PSN that Sony is offering an additional 3 months when you sub for a year.
    Last edited by faaeng; 06-21-2013 at 05:57.
    PCs are very much like Air Conditioners.
    They both become utterly useless once you start to open up Windows....
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  21. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flumbooze View Post
    You pay $60 to play any game you own online, to get 5 free games each month, to get discounts, to get beta invites, etc.

    It's not as if you have to buy PS Plus each time you buy a new game.

  22. #70
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    It's only cheaper in the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDug13
    I want Naughty Dog to explore new game genres, not regurgitate cinematic corridor shooters for another generation.

  23. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    It's only cheaper in the US.
    Not if you look at what you get.

  24. #72
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    What? The US gets it cheaper AND they get better content than most other places. How can you justify them getting it cheaper (along with most everything else)?
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDug13
    I want Naughty Dog to explore new game genres, not regurgitate cinematic corridor shooters for another generation.

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  26. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    What? The US gets it cheaper AND they get better content than most other places. How can you justify them getting it cheaper (along with most everything else)?
    They received better content when the PSP was around, but nowadays it really is mostly Europe that receives all the good games. And that aside, the US always gets stuff cheaper. They get their console cheaper, their games, their controllers, etc.

    How much does PS Plus cost from the PSN-Store? (In Yen).

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    They really need to make a month to month PS+ fee, what If I want to play online for this game for 3 weeks and this one for 2 weeks and not on the same trimester? I'll pay 6 months for 5 weeks of online play, it's just stupid (of course with MS I'll pay a year or nothing).
    For people that want ONLY to play online and don't care for the free games, there should be a reduced fee (maybe half?).

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    Ok, yes, I get it, don't charge for online.

    I wouldn't ever pay for online either.

    But do understand that developers would rather not put up their servers. Yes, greedy but with next-gen there's going to be likely an upgrade where I'm "thinking" that all games will be on cloud servers.

    Which does cost more money and are more stable. So I agree, if we still wanted the free $#@!ty servers, that's cool but developers may not be willing to do that moving forward.

    So we may be paying for better, dedicated servers and getting free goodies + discounts + access to exclusive content.

    If you look at the overall package, it's not that bad.

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