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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemit View Post
    Dude... did you read your own source?

    It says they COULD PACK IN UP TO 300k...

    It doesn't say ANYWHERE that they HAVE 300k

    HUGE difference.

    Marketing speak... always a lie...

    a quick search with our friend Google said that the Chicago data center he referenced went online in 2009 with 700,000 sq ft of area containing server containers that are easily installed. Each server container has 2500 servers inside. They didn't go into specifics on how many containers, but a 700,000 sq ft facility would be able to hold a significant number of them. In addition, they said that they can colocate to other data clusters and instantly add 10's of thousands of servers.

    http://www.globalfoundationservices....a-centers.aspx

    Again, this is ONE of many data centers MS has set up to support more than 200 programs and software packages they have. Not just MSLive. It is the Azure system, Office 365, Skydrive, etc... why is it so hard to believe MS has these in place?
    LMAO

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    a quick search with our friend Google said that the Chicago data center he referenced went online in 2009 with 700,000 sq ft of area containing server containers that are easily installed. Each server container has 2500 servers inside. They didn't go into specifics on how many containers, but a 700,000 sq ft facility would be able to hold a significant number of them. In addition, they said that they can colocate to other data clusters and instantly add 10's of thousands of servers.

    http://www.globalfoundationservices....a-centers.aspx

    Again, this is ONE of many data centers MS has set up to support more than 200 programs and software packages they have. Not just MSLive. It is the Azure system, Office 365, Skydrive, etc... why is it so hard to believe MS has these in place?
    Nah... I don't have a problem believing MS has this at all...

    This isn't about whether MS has it...

    Wouldn't doubt it that much at all..

    Just... they idea that Cloud is some kind of magic bullet for a weak system, sigh...

    I'm a network admin... I know how networks work... cloud does virtually 0 for a game...

    All this talk about offing AI or some weather effects, or things that only need to be done "rarely" doesn't really help much at all. yes... it does give more time... but its the AI, weather, and physics that you have to run 30 ~ 60 times every second that is killer..

    Great, you have real time weather that only needs to be randomly created every 5 ~ 10 minutes... a calculation that would take POSSIBLY 1 second... then ship out the info the computers to actually render it... 60 TIMES PER SECOND!... seriously..

    What did the cloud do in that situation... it gave you 1 second every 10 minutes... WOW!

    I know... i know.. .hyperbole here... so take it with a grain of salt... but until the internet is sending data to computers as fast as the CPU is talking / communicating with the GPU and itself.. cloud computing isn't going to help much..

    EVEN THEN... latency is about as fast as its going to get... only resolution to that is if we started getting into quantum state network cards that use spooky action at a distance to literally put latency at 0... THEN we can talk about the CLOUD running the game for us!

    But even then... you would need a server for each player AND a "display" machine for each player... (or a server powerful enough to create a virtual machine per player... which gives options if many players are playing very simple / computationally simple games, then one powerful server would be able to run hundreds or even thousands of instances of the game, but the triple A bleeding edge games that the hardcore likes is going to basically cost about ONE SERVER PER GAMER!)

    Moving the machine into a server room owned by MS / Sony doesn't make the machine magically better or more powerful.. unless MS SONY PAY for a MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE machine.. but then developers will use as much of that machine as they can... and... back to the same issue 1 machine per gamer..

  3. #53
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    I guess in essence, all tech babble aside, this is all conjecture. We need to see it in our hands.

    I just get irritated by the FUD that permeates boards like ours about any new console and its features just in order to troll it or defame it. The cloud stuff that MS is proposing could flourish, they might have it working in ways people don't foresee. Sony could pull a great service with Gaikai out similarly and utilize their abilities.

    This is going to be an exciting hardware gen I think.
    LMAO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    I guess in essence, all tech babble aside, this is all conjecture. We need to see it in our hands.

    I just get irritated by the FUD that permeates boards like ours about any new console and its features just in order to troll it or defame it. The cloud stuff that MS is proposing could flourish, they might have it working in ways people don't foresee. Sony could pull a great service with Gaikai out similarly and utilize their abilities.

    This is going to be an exciting hardware gen I think.
    Yeah, these always do turn into $#@! slinging contests! I am really interested to see what they have done with Gaikai, I am curious to see what kind of controller lag there is, if they figured out a way to make that unperceivable then I see that service becoming a hit!

    -=[ PSN ID: Tha_MonkeyClaw ]=-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    I guess in essence, all tech babble aside, this is all conjecture. We need to see it in our hands.

    I just get irritated by the FUD that permeates boards like ours about any new console and its features just in order to troll it or defame it. The cloud stuff that MS is proposing could flourish, they might have it working in ways people don't foresee. Sony could pull a great service with Gaikai out similarly and utilize their abilities.

    This is going to be an exciting hardware gen I think.
    If they pull it off.. it would be amazing...

    But were getting to the hard limits of the speed of light itself... so unless we are willing to through out all the science behind the limit of the speed of light... then our current infrastructure will NOT work when it comes to cloud stuff... there's just a limit... latency... the killer

    *shrug*... it would be REALLY cool if they get something like it working, but...
    I'm really uncertain about twitch like games, etc.

    Given... I haven't been to my networking classes in 20 years... so I'm a bit out of the loop.. but I do tend to keep up with stuff in the industry... so.. *sigh*

  6. #56
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    I dabble in networking around here, (one of many jobs at my current position) and think they could pull it off.

    Now keep in mind, I am speaking from the set that I have $#@!ty internet, literally 1.5mbps DSL, so I am right on the cusp of what MS is deeming "min" I still think it will work.

    maybe it is more, I hope it works? LOL

    Speculation and conjecture is all we have right now, so we will see in Late 2013
    LMAO

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    Yes, also look at services like OnLive that have been around for a couple years already? I played some games on it and it wasn't bad, use practically any computer or a $100 console. The point most people are making here it's that cloud computing by itself means nothing and it has been around for ages at this point. Sony and MS have been doing it for a while too. This is kind of like apple marketing, take something old and put a new face on it and sell it as new.

    Gaikai is promising a well. However, when you boil down the idea of cloud computing, the console itself no longer matters so it is a bit silly to tout the xbox one or ps4 as cloud gaming machines. These ideas are associated with the services of XBL and PSN.

    Realistically Sony and MS could update xbox 360 and PS3 to utilize these hew services and suddenly have next gen console capabilities, other than 4k HD maybe, since the rendering could be offloaded like OnLive. However the bulk of the power and advantage of next gen systems still resides in the console hardware.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by bmatt; 06-13-2013 at 17:02.

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  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemit View Post
    If they pull it off.. it would be amazing...

    But were getting to the hard limits of the speed of light itself... so unless we are willing to through out all the science behind the limit of the speed of light... then our current infrastructure will NOT work when it comes to cloud stuff... there's just a limit... latency... the killer

    *shrug*... it would be REALLY cool if they get something like it working, but...
    I'm really uncertain about twitch like games, etc.

    Given... I haven't been to my networking classes in 20 years... so I'm a bit out of the loop.. but I do tend to keep up with stuff in the industry... so.. *sigh*
    http://www.nature.com/news/2008/0808...2008.1038.html

    Soon...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelemit View Post
    If they pull it off.. it would be amazing...

    But were getting to the hard limits of the speed of light itself... so unless we are willing to through out all the science behind the limit of the speed of light... then our current infrastructure will NOT work when it comes to cloud stuff... there's just a limit... latency... the killer

    *shrug*... it would be REALLY cool if they get something like it working, but...
    I'm really uncertain about twitch like games, etc.

    Given... I haven't been to my networking classes in 20 years... so I'm a bit out of the loop.. but I do tend to keep up with stuff in the industry... so.. *sigh*
    I'm just completing my Advanced Diploma of Network Security and you are 100% on the money with all this, it simply can't help in a truly practical way in gaming due to latency.

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    all i wanna know is... do i get unlimited cloud storage? you wanna hype the cloud? gimme some lots of gigabytes to store $#@! on.. not this 2gb dropbox crap or 7gb sky drive $#@! ($#@!ers dropped my free 25gb skydrive for a new 7gb model... THANKS MS!)

    PS+ already gets me, what? 1gb? to store my game saves... lemme store my pictures and movies and music up in that $#@!-cloud, then ill believe in the magic.
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  12. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by NextGenGamer2000 View Post
    Could is not same as does. Lol that isn't proof. I could get 6 packs. Its not a proof that I do.

    MS has money to do so, bit did they? And are they for X1 only?
    The outfit has increased to 300,000 servers to power Xbox One users -- up from 15,000 that handle the Xbox 360.http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/m...es-xbox-live-/

  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by NextGenGamer2000 View Post
    It is not. There is nothing else to it. I can link you the DF article which talks about in detail what is and what isn't.




    Latency is the biggest problem. Even 50mbps won't be enough for most task( citing DF), but even if we get near infinite bandwidth, latency will be a problem.

    Speed of light is speed of light. MS marketing can't change that. Lol
    You just don't bother to listen. You sound like a political columnist spouting bullet points.

    MS has said the use of the cloud for the gaming side of things is for NON LATENCY items. Calculations that are not required to be there in a split second.

    The DF article is going on what they know from the setup in the past. They have ZERO insight about how MS will utilize the cloud features for the games, all they can do is apply the current tech to theories and use anecdotal evidence from existing attempts (read Onlive). I read the article, no need to point it out. They are very tech minded, and it was a good read, but it also is NOT the bible on how this is going to work, or not work may the case be.
    LMAO

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    On the whole cloud thing I am taking the "sit back and wait" approach to see how each side applies it to their system. It will be interested to see what develops from it...

    -=[ PSN ID: Tha_MonkeyClaw ]=-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I know the article doesn't say it has 300, 000. I posted it to back up what I said about when it started and where. You guys don't have to believe it but he proof is right there. The servers do exist.
    The Farms exist for sure, you can and have been able to rent them out for quite some time. A super small setup with a decent amount of bandwidth and storage (100gb/700gb respectively) and shared cores will run you about $100/month. Does that sound economically viable to you for a gaming console?

    Just the power and cooling on a typical multi-core server costs about $600/year. That's not including upkeep, replacements, administration, etc...Does that sound economically viable?

    The more likely answer is that the 300k number is PR BS. There are more than likely a large amount of virtual machines that they counted as servers.
    Last edited by Rekmon; 06-14-2013 at 00:26. Reason: drunken math fail...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I have my doubts about sony's ability to pull this off. MS has over 300,000 servers and you know that is a whole lot of money. I don't see sony investing as much into this. I doubt that we will see many titles on PS4 use this.
    PR talk!
    Sent from my computer using keyboard.

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    AMD should be building all of these. They Bought SeaMicro , a server company suited to this.
    They are releasing OPTERON APU Chips which highly resemble the PS4 and XBOne APU's. No reason if they pinned them out the same that the servers can't just run versions of the same chips.
    How do you create a custom server farm to compute your cloud of custom hardware? Modify the OS or have a supplier who can plop your chip into ready to go server blade motherboards?
    I'd go with hardware readiness.
    OH, i wanted to point out how these processors are not 3.2ghz, but half that, MUCH like Server chips!

  18. #67
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    I wonder if AMD's stock can make it back to $35 now?

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    Articles about Microsoft's new 300,000 (physical or virtual?) server farm facility are pretty old, if that's what they're referring to. And in them they mentioned nothing about XBox Live, but rather they mentioned trying to compete with Google. All of those servers are not dedicated to XBox Live, as they seem to imply..

    The actual console unit having the same capability of utilization of the cloud is all one need worry about. They're not stupid. They've been tight-lipped on all plans, until they're worked them out carefully. I'm sure he wouldn't mention it unless they had a plan. And plan-wise, it would be MUCH cheaper for Sony (or Nintendo) to rent the use of cloud infrastructure from MS' competition (Google, Amazon, etc) rather than to build and maintain their own. And I'm sure they would be more than happy to oblige.. especially since Sony already builds products that they utilize anyway?

    And Maybe no devs are talking about Playstation cloud computing (well, except the dev of Minecraft) because it's not an express part of their marketing strategy as it is for Microsoft?

    It's seems to me the partners on both sides (MS / Sony) are sticking to the same talking points for each. For X1, the cloud, and the media features, etc). For PS4, it's all about the DDR5 RAM, the ease of Self-Publishing, the sponsorships, the Sharing features, the Touchpad, etc.

    One great story was about how Sony ended up doubling the RAM from 4 to 8 GB after some of the workers at Gearbox (makers of Borderlands) said 4GB was a limitation and reamed him about how Sony never listens. The guy from Sony goes back to work in a panic and sends word to Japan about what happened and they loved the idea of upping it, since their hope was having a superior console in every technical aspect. Sony is pitching to a different audience.

    Devs HAVE talked about the cloud computing selling point being impractical (and that's putting it nicely) though?

    Have to wait and see on all of the above, really... maybe only 1st party games and exclusives will actually take the time to code for this? Especially in any significant way. And figuring out how to access a computational resource that has a much slower speed than the internal system can perform. No one's connection is touching 176,000 mbps (PS4) or 68,000 (X1)...

    So minor things like Drivatar is what we will see in the foreseeable future? (I just hope people don't drive stupid on purpose, and have their drivatars spam wrecks in people's games, trying to be funny).

  20. #69
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    Ok, here's a good video with a developer of an Xbox One EXCLUSIVE game telling you what the cloud is good for. Short story: basically runs the game servers so games never need be hosted by a client console. Also does all the basic stuff game servers have done for years but MS hosts it all and the devs and publishers don't have to worry about that.

    As an addition, I'd add that the cloud is also where your game libraries are going to live and that explains the need for a LOT of storage. These are all things the "cloud" is good for, but don't get it twisted- the cloud is still just a server farm. Likely, these are also virtual servers that can be created dynamically, hence all MS's talk about being about to put up new servers immediately, etc. This same cloud message is being thumped hard by MS in the enterprise for businesses but again, it's all basically just server farms and server tech although the virtual servers really ARE cool because of how flexible you can be and how instantly you can respond to additional needs, etc. It's definitely cool stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZy3VIVqAY4

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