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  1. #51
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    Strictly for myself, 500Gb is definitely enough. That said, for just a bit more Sony could have doubled the price and gained 1TB. So it seems odd to me that they didn't, but I guess they need to cut all the corners they can right now.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by VayMasters86 View Post
    It just means that it has the potential for a much higher data transfer rate from the hard drive. SATA 3 is much faster than SATA 2.
    This times f***in 1 million, lol. We should see some really awesome prices for SSD on black friday this year. I'm thinking a 240GB for around $100 bucks or less, which will definitely be enough for me. Also, load times will probably be virtually non existent if it has SATA 3.
    Last edited by RugerRellP89; 06-14-2013 at 06:20.

  3. #53
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    I will upgrade mine when I get my hands on my PS4 system. 500GB is not enough for me and I don't want to make the same mistake that I have made with my PS3.


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  4. #54
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    No doubt Sony will release a 1TB version for the same price as the 500GB about 4-5 months after release.

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    I don't understand why people are going to be putting SSD's that actually cost more than the PS4 into their PS4.

    SSD's are getting cheaper but not cheap enough for me to buy one to use as a storage medium. I paid 140 last year for 120GB SSD last year and i'm going to order another 256GB Samsung SSD for my desktop and that costs 188. A good fall over a year I guess, i'm paying an extra 48 for an additional 136GB SSD memory.

    The main reason loading was so shocking on the PS4 was due to the painfully slow BR drive. What is it this time, x8? Only reason I use a SSD in my laptop is because i'm able to have 2 drives. I rarely install games on to my SSD as it isn't worth the increase in performance. I'd rather spend less money on a 1TB 72000 Sata 3 traditional HDD as i'll be downloading most of my games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Strictly for myself, 500Gb is definitely enough. That said, for just a bit more Sony could have doubled the price and gained 1TB. So it seems odd to me that they didn't, but I guess they need to cut all the corners they can right now.
    They are not cutting corners. It's a cost vs price thing. They wanted the $399 price point so they couldn't go to 1tb. It's easily swapped for the people who don't know how to delete crap off of their drive.

    500gb is more than enough room for me. I didn't fill the 20gb hdd on my original ps3 for a couple years.

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    Personally I think that's too much unless they implement the same sort of functionality for ps4 user's as psVita users, in regards to music and playing games at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billm0066 View Post
    They are not cutting corners. It's a cost vs price thing. They wanted the $399 price point so they couldn't go to 1tb
    Isn't that, by definition, cutting corners?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    I don't understand why people are going to be putting SSD's that actually cost more than the PS4 into their PS4. ... The main reason loading was so shocking on the PS4 was due to the painfully slow BR drive. What is it this time, x8? ...
    I'll agree with that, but I'd consider a Hybrid if it's available. I agree on that the BD was a bottle neck to some degree on PS3, but not the total bottleneck as I had plenty of games that were long load time games that were download only. And it's a 6x BD CAV (8x DVD CAV) drive - CAV is constant angular velocity - basically means it will read data towards the outside of the disc faster than the inside of the disc.

    Quote Originally Posted by billm0066 View Post
    They are not cutting corners. It's a cost vs price thing. They wanted the $399 price point so they couldn't go to 1tb. It's easily swapped for the people who don't know how to delete crap off of their drive.

    500gb is more than enough room for me. I didn't fill the 20gb hdd on my original ps3 for a couple years.
    Funny statement as those who don't know how to delete stuff off their disc are the least likely individuals to attempt to replace a HDD in one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fo realz View Post
    Personally I think that's too much unless they implement the same sort of functionality for ps4 user's as psVita users, in regards to music and playing games at the same time.
    *Uses his best Gary Coleman voice* What you talking about Willis?

    Seriously, why on earth would this be too much, when with PS+ They'll be giving away free games on a consistant basis? So YOU may not be getting PS+ because you may not want to play online and get free games, but the vast majority of users will. Saying it's too much is simply nutz.

    That said, the music comment was plan stupid, almost nobody has enough music to fill up 500GB, let's say it's taking a mere 200GB of it, that's about ~5000 CD's compressed worth of music. I don't know about you but my 200 CDs collected over 25yrs is considered fairly large, it all fits in 8GB at moderate compression.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    Isn't that, by definition, cutting corners?


    No, going with small HDD is not considered cutting corners. Cutting corners is going with inferior materials, forgoing functionality, etc. Going with a smaller size HDD that's still adequate for a lot of users to save a cost is reducing the BOM (Bill of materials.)

    Think of it this way, it's sacrificing capacity not quality for cost. While cutting corners is when quality is sacrificed for cost.
    Last edited by TAZ427; 06-14-2013 at 14:14.



  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    I'll agree with that, but I'd consider a Hybrid if it's available. I agree on that the BD was a bottle neck to some degree on PS3, but not the total bottleneck as I had plenty of games that were long load time games that were download only. And it's a 6x BD CAV (8x DVD CAV) drive - CAV is constant angular velocity - basically means it will read data towards the outside of the disc faster than the inside of the disc.
    I don't understand these hybrid drives. They only have a small section of the HDD that is actually a SSD isn't it? I can see why you'd use it on a PC as you can partition it and install your OS onto the SSD partition and everything else on the HD disk however with a PS4 will it really make a difference? Genuine question as I don't know - I could also have it all completely wrong about hybrid drives.

    That said, the music comment was plan stupid, almost nobody has enough music to fill up 500GB, let's say it's taking a mere 200GB of it, that's about ~5000 CD's compressed worth of music. I don't know about you but my 200 CDs collected over 25yrs is considered fairly large, it all fits in 8GB at moderate compression.
    Just to play devils advocate... I had a HDD fail on me at the start of last year. it was an 800GB HDD and at least 350-400GB of that was music. I use WAV files though so it's not really hard to fill up that much if you are using uncompressed file type. a 4 minute song used to take up about 50-70mb. a few small EP's i bought uncompressed are <7 songs yet take over 500MB

    I actually have a friend who has 2 x 1TB external HDD's filled with music

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    I don't understand these hybrid drives. They only have a small section of the HDD that is actually a SSD isn't it? I can see why you'd use it on a PC as you can partition it and install your OS onto the SSD partition and everything else on the HD disk however with a PS4 will it really make a difference? Genuine question as I don't know - I could also have it all completely wrong about hybrid drives.
    The SSD is not a separate partition. That's how you'd implement a system w/ a SSD + a HDD. This is a Hybrid drive. Instead the SSD is a Cache, that cache's in the most recent accessed files. Further accesses to those files (while it's still cached in the SSD) will come from the SSD. The SSD memory should be large enough that things like the OS remain resident in the SSD all the time (or the vast majority of it anyway), along with recent programs (games in the case of PS4.)

    So bootup, OS activities, loading of recently played games are all as fast as if everything was on SSD. And during the times you're accessing something that's not resident in the SSD, it's no worse than standard HDD accesses, and they'll be cached into the SSD for future use.

    I've got a laptop that implements Intel's Smart Response. Basically it's the same thing as the Hybrid drive except that it has that the Flash Memory (SSD) portion is on the motherboard and it uses a standard laptop HDD.

    Bringup from a full shutdown of the laptop is 13s to login screen - Never seen any hourglass of things loading after it's up. Bringup from a deep hibernation is 9s to login screen - Never seen any hourglass of things loading after it's up.

    My work laptop takes a couple minutes from powerdown. A lot of that has to do with all the bloatware my company has on the laptop that I don't have on my personal laptop, but I've got a couple coworkers w/ Hybrid and SSD drives in their work laptops with the same bloatware and both types come up much faster than my laptop (all the same laptop models but w/ different HDD installed.) If my HDD goes out on me on my work laptop, I'll be switching to a Hybrid drive. The Hybrid drive boot up was within a second or two of the SSD only laptop.

    Just to play devils advocate... I had a HDD fail on me at the start of last year. it was an 800GB HDD and at least 350-400GB of that was music. I use WAV files though so it's not really hard to fill up that much if you are using uncompressed file type. a 4 minute song used to take up about 50-70mb. a few small EP's i bought uncompressed are <7 songs yet take over 500MB

    I actually have a friend who has 2 x 1TB external HDD's filled with music
    I hear you, but that's not what he was referring to and we both know it. I've got a drive on my HTPC as well that's got a portion of a drive with all my CD's .wav files on it as well. Though I think it's still < 200GB.



  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    The SSD is not a separate partition. That's how you'd implement a system w/ a SSD + a HDD. This is a Hybrid drive. Instead the SSD is a Cache, that cache's in the most recent accessed files. Further accesses to those files (while it's still cached in the SSD) will come from the SSD. The SSD memory should be large enough that things like the OS remain resident in the SSD all the time (or the vast majority of it anyway), along with recent programs (games in the case of PS4.) So bootup, OS activities, loading of recently played games are all as fast as if everything was on SSD. And during the times you're accessing something that's not resident in the SSD, it's no worse than standard HDD accesses, and they'll be cached into the SSD for future use. I've got a laptop that implements Intel's Smart Response. Basically it's the same thing as the Hybrid drive except that it has that the Flash Memory (SSD) portion is on the motherboard and it uses a standard laptop HDD. Bringup from a full shutdown of the laptop is 13s to login screen - Never seen any hourglass of things loading after it's up. Bringup from a deep hibernation is 9s to login screen - Never seen any hourglass of things loading after it's up. My work laptop takes a couple minutes from powerdown. A lot of that has to do with all the bloatware my company has on the laptop that I don't have on my personal laptop, but I've got a couple coworkers w/ Hybrid and SSD drives in their work laptops with the same bloatware and both types come up much faster than my laptop (all the same laptop models but w/ different HDD installed.) If my HDD goes out on me on my work laptop, I'll be switching to a Hybrid drive. The Hybrid drive boot up was within a second or two of the SSD only laptop.
    But the way it caches is that part of the hardware or does it need a program on the pc to tell it to do that? Would a PS4 recognize this program? If this works on PS4 i will most likely get one i saw a hybrid thats 1tb hdd + 8gb ssd for $110 on newegg.




  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    No doubt Sony will release a 1TB version for the same price as the 500GB about 4-5 months after release.
    keep dreaming.




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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    But the way it caches is that part of the hardware or does it need a program on the pc to tell it to do that? Would a PS4 recognize this program? If this works on PS4 i will most likely get one i saw a hybrid thats 1tb hdd + 8gb ssd for $110 on newegg.
    Hybrid drives don't need any SW on top to configure them. They're pre-configured. It should simply work on the PS4. That said, I've commented earlier that I'm waiting on someone else to do it first and report back the results. You know darn well there will be a few YouTube video's after week one of people doing this and hopefully SHOWING before and after results.

    All this said, they way Sony presented it before, it actually seems really fast to begin with. For all we know Sony may have implemented a system like Intel's Smart Response making this effectively a Hybrid. Maybe this is something they're holding back discussing as more ammo later. If this is the case then adding an SSD or SSHD wouldn't make a bit of difference. I'm not holding my breath on this though.

    Also, I'd suggest waiting until closer to launch. There will be more Hybrid Laptop drives available. Seagate has another drive that's coming out that's the same as you mentioned except it has 32GB of SSD on it, instead of 8GB. This would be much more preferable. On laptops, 8GB is kind of the minimum, 20GB is the theoretical sweet spot and 32GB tends to be the realistic implemented amount that's just above the sweet spot and is what you'll eventually see most Hybrid drives using.
    Last edited by TAZ427; 06-14-2013 at 16:05.



  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by billm0066 View Post
    They are not cutting corners. It's a cost vs price thing. They wanted the $399 price point so they couldn't go to 1tb. It's easily swapped for the people who don't know how to delete crap off of their drive.
    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    No, going with small HDD is not considered cutting corners. Cutting corners is going with inferior materials, forgoing functionality, etc. Going with a smaller size HDD that's still adequate for a lot of users to save a cost is reducing the BOM (Bill of materials.)
    I think you both missed my point there. As far as I'm aware console manufactures are generally able to get hardware pieces at cheaper prices, but currently the price difference between 500GB sand 1TB is rather small (about 10$). This is mostly due to the fact that memory itself is so cheap and a core of the cost goes into the materials and manufacturing process overall. So, unless Sony somehow got 500Gb HDDs for a severally lower price and were unable to do so for 1TB (or anything higher than 500Gb, really) harddrives, then I'd classify that as exactly 'cutting corners'.

    The terminology itself may be living under semantics though. All I'm saying is that Sony is rounding down where they can to save every possibly penny. Whether anyone classifies that as 'cutting corners' or not is besides the point, it was simply what I chose to use as it seems to fit perfectly well.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 06-14-2013 at 20:00.
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    I am very happy since 500Gb is more then enough for me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    I think you both missed my point there. As far as I'm aware console manufactures are generally able to get hardware pieces at cheaper prices, but currently the price different between 500Gb sand 1TB is rather small (about 10$). This is mostly due to the fact that memory itself is so cheap and a core of the cost goes into the materials and manufacturing process overall. So, unless Sony somehow got 500Gb HDDs for a severally lower price and were unable to do so for 1TB (or anything higher than 500Gb, really) harddrives, then I'd classify that as exactly 'cutting corners'.

    The terminology itself may be living under semantics though. All I'm saying is that Sony is rounding down where they can to save every possibly penny. Whether anyone classifies that as 'cutting corners' or not is besides the point, it was simply what I chose to use as it seems to fit perfectly well.
    I agree it's is about the semantics of the term "Cutting Corners"

    I think in general we agree that what they're doing is reducing in a very miserly way. What we disagree on is the definition of 'Cutting Corners.'

    While there is no official definition to 'Cutting Corners' it is general accepted as doing things to reduce cost/effort at the detriment to the quality of the product.

    I totally agree that the extra cost savings is minimal and I definitely comprehend that purchasing wholesale quantities is a negotiated item and the difference between them getting a 1TB and a 500GB is minimal (maybe $10-$20 to them - this will vary over the life of the product.) It will actually get to a point that the manufactures no longer wants to support production on lower capacity drives as their profit margins diminish and it makes no sense to maintain as many production lines. At which point they'll still sell them but they'll actually charge more than higher capacity drives.

    Both MS and Sony only moved to the higher capacity drives as the lower capacity drives were being obsoleted. And they had a premium cost of the system w/ the higher capacity drive that was significantly higher than the difference in their BOM (Bill of material) change. Heck, it was much higher than the end user outright buying the lower end system and a higher capacity drive.



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    I still have 2GB free on my 20GB Xbox 360 and over 400GB free on my 80GB PS3. I think I can manage with 500GB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    I still have 2GB free on my 20GB Xbox 360 and over 400GB free on my 80GB PS3. I think I can manage with 500GB.
    That's amazing, let me know how you got 400GB free on your 80GB PS3



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    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    That's amazing, let me know how you got 400GB free on your 80GB PS3
    He swapped a 500gb hdd into his 80gb ps3. Was that really that hard to understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    I think you both missed my point there. As far as I'm aware console manufactures are generally able to get hardware pieces at cheaper prices, but currently the price difference between 500GB sand 1TB is rather small (about 10$). This is mostly due to the fact that memory itself is so cheap and a core of the cost goes into the materials and manufacturing process overall. So, unless Sony somehow got 500Gb HDDs for a severally lower price and were unable to do so for 1TB (or anything higher than 500Gb, really) harddrives, then I'd classify that as exactly 'cutting corners'.

    The terminology itself may be living under semantics though. All I'm saying is that Sony is rounding down where they can to save every possibly penny. Whether anyone classifies that as 'cutting corners' or not is besides the point, it was simply what I chose to use as it seems to fit perfectly well.
    Even if the cost were only $10 difference for them, that adds up when you sell millions of consoles. 1 millions consoles = $10 million dollars with your numbers. Nobody here knows the cost difference between each drive so the argument is pointless. If you need a bigger drive then swap it out when you get it. I am more than happy with 500gb of space, and i'm sure most would agree.

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    Would I be able to install a ssd as the storage device? Or Not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by billm0066 View Post
    He swapped a 500gb hdd into his 80gb ps3. Was that really that hard to understand?
    Considering the implicating tone, it strikes me that it was probably a typo. On what basis do you presume he switched it out for a 500Gb HDD? Is it that hard to understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by billm0066 View Post
    Even if the cost were only $10 difference for them, that adds up when you sell millions of consoles. 1 millions consoles = $10 million dollars with your numbers. Nobody here knows the cost difference between each drive so the argument is pointless.
    I wasn't aware there was even an argument. Really, it was a simple thought and clarification. The rest of your post is very much besides the point.
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    It's fine with me. I upgraded from 60 gb to 500 gb. I still have 200 gb left. And I bought tons of games. But I'll probably upgrade to 1TB.
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