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  1. #126
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    So is this 'panel' gonna be like PSU's Illuminati?

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  3. #127
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    This should be interesting.. Let's see how this all unfolds.
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  4. #128
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    I need pm from people who want to be on the panel. We're already inundated with requests so some won't make it. Please pm me.

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  5. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by justintheman87 View Post
    Please allow me on the panel. I have been here for 8 years and know this community very well and what it needs going forward.
    You'd be a good person to be on it.

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  6. #130
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    Pleased to see things moving forward. Best of luck to everyone who has decided to apply for the role, and even more luck to those who are being tasked with determining who becomes the Community Manager of PSU. It'll be quite a ride over the next few weeks as everything is ironed out.
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  7. #131
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  8. #132
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    Good luck to everyone who applies and good luck to the panel on picking a good CM!
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  9. #133
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    I am going to ask a few legit questions here......

    If the CM role is up for grabs why is the position still being held onto currently?
    How can we be sure a "bias" vote will not heavily influence the panel, based on who is on the panel, and who has applied for the CM role?
    Does anyone actually have experience in managing an entire community, or can showcase a proven track record?

    9 years and counting!

  10. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by justintheman87 View Post
    I am going to ask a few legit questions here......

    If the CM role is up for grabs why is the position still being held onto currently?
    How can we be sure a "bias" vote will not heavily influence the panel, based on who is on the panel, and who has applied for the CM role?
    Does anyone actually have experience in managing an entire community, or can showcase a proven track record?
    It's a good question. I guess if some people are biased there's little we can do but we've tried to choose a panel that are objective thinkers and a cross-section of staff and community to create balanced opinions. The candidates will be discussed in detail too.
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  11. #135
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    The idea of a "bias" decision is what has me worried about this entire process. Everyone has friends on this forum, and regardless if it is a CM decision or not you become a bias supporter of your friend in whatever he/she applies themselves towards. That is just the way of life, and human compassion. This is why I believe it may be in the best interests of all involved that you Steven make this decision on your own based on the applications you have received.

    The applications will showcase work experience, educational background, future visions, and everything else necessary to showcase they are a great candidate for the CM role. I feel with the panel idea it would be almost impossible for a un-biased selection, and the last thing this community needs is a new CM being selected with no past experience, no understanding of what this community needs, no solid action plan, and no true vision for the future. This community deserves way better than that as a possible scenario.

    9 years and counting!

  12. #136
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    I think he's right. Steven should pick the CM by himself.
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  13. #137
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    I don't have enough experience within the forums to make the call on my own. I want to hear from people embedded in the forum life to discover what they really want from a CM.
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  14. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by justintheman87 View Post
    The idea of a "bias" decision is what has me worried about this entire process. Everyone has friends on this forum, and regardless if it is a CM decision or not you become a bias supporter of your friend in whatever he/she applies themselves towards. That is just the way of life, and human compassion. This is why I believe it may be in the best interests of all involved that you Steven make this decision on your own based on the applications you have received.

    The applications will showcase work experience, educational background, future visions, and everything else necessary to showcase they are a great candidate for the CM role. I feel with the panel idea it would be almost impossible for a un-biased selection, and the last thing this community needs is a new CM being selected with no past experience, no understanding of what this community needs, no solid action plan, and no true vision for the future. This community deserves way better than that as a possible scenario.
    One problem with that is many will cry foul. We already know some of the staff is upset with the decision in the changing. If it's done without input at all more people will complain about it. I think it's a good idea to let staff and community involved in the process but you do make a good point. This isn't just a normal position. It's a paid position. It would be like customers and employees helping select the new store manager. A bit different but close to the same concept.

    But at least this way there are people from the forums involved. Because we all know if someone didn't like the new decision they would jump on the hate wagon. At least this way there are others involved and conspiracy can't be claimed.




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  15. #139
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    I agree with ps3freak18 and StevenW. I concede that there will be bias among everyone on the panel. Like Justin said, everyone has made friends and knows more about some individuals' qualifications more than others. As humans, we're prone to favoring those we know good things about over those we only know from an application.

    But none of this is a problem, and is better than the alternative of Steven Williamson choosing based on a pile of applications. While I'm sure the applications reveal plenty of great things about each candidate (you bet mine does), very few applications will account for some of the user's more negative experiences. Steven would overlook these flaws and past problems because he simply hasn't been around to experience them. Members on the panel, inversely, will be able to look at each application and discuss which candidates are the best not only based on their applications, but based on past interactions and the user's history.

    No process is perfect, but choosing a number of community and staff members who have been around for years is far better than putting the decision on one person's shoulders. Steven's unbiased involvement is fantastic, and it's great that he's at the helm, but realistically we can't expect him to make this call on his own.
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  16. #140
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    What if the idea behind the "council" were changed to say they were nothing more than an "input" process with Steven making the ultimate decision? That would make more sense in my opinion. This is a huge decision, accompanied with huge changes behind it. To have a select few forum members make this decision seems a bit uncharacteristic to me on how to make a major decision that will effect everyone. Why is there a mindset that someone from the community needs to be selected, or knows what needs to be accomplished? This place needs someone who knows how to work with a community, to bring it together, and prosper. A CM needs to understand how communities work in general and how to build on them while growing a relationship with said community.

    Steven, experience on the forums has nothing to do with this decision. Based on the applications alone should be enough to decide who will become the new CM for PSU. The information contained within the application will speak volumes, and THAT is the only thing that should be considered when making a selection, not a post count, rep score, existing popularity on the forum, or current forum role.

    Also my first question wasn't answered. Why is the CM position still being held when it is currently being applied for?

    9 years and counting!

  17. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by justintheman87 View Post
    Why is the CM position still being held when it is currently being applied for?
    Because if the CM is replaced, there will need to be some training time. I assume Cuguy would be paid to train his replacement.

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  18. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by justintheman87 View Post
    What if the idea behind the "council" were changed to say they were nothing more than an "input" process with Steven making the ultimate decision? That would make more sense in my opinion. This is a huge decision, accompanied with huge changes behind it. To have a select few forum members make this decision seems a bit uncharacteristic to me on how to make a major decision that will effect everyone. Why is there a mindset that someone from the community needs to be selected, or knows what needs to be accomplished? This place needs someone who knows how to work with a community, to bring it together, and prosper. A CM needs to understand how communities work in general and how to build on them while growing a relationship with said community.

    Steven, experience on the forums has nothing to do with this decision. Based on the applications alone should be enough to decide who will become the new CM for PSU. The information contained within the application will speak volumes, and THAT is the only thing that should be considered when making a selection, not a post count, rep score, existing popularity on the forum, or current forum role.

    Also my first question wasn't answered. Why is the CM position still being held when it is currently being applied for?
    The applications still don't account for the full picture of a user's history. Everyone will speak volumes of how much experience they have and how suited they are for the role, but only members with experience can underline the less flattering details people will leave out of their applications. Not everyone has them, but it's important to have people around to make sure we're getting someone who is actually fit for the role.

    Also, do you really think it would be a good decision to bring someone from outside the community to manage it? Every community has unique dynamics, goals, user desires and demands. It would be much better to appoint someone who has been around to see the community develop over the years, who is familiar with the community already.
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  19. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    The applications still don't account for the full picture of a user's history. Everyone will speak volumes of how much experience they have and how suited they are for the role, but only members with experience can underline the less flattering details people will leave out of their applications. Not everyone has them, but it's important to have people around to make sure we're getting someone who is actually fit for the role.

    Also, do you really think it would be a good decision to bring someone from outside the community to manage it? Every community has unique dynamics, goals, user desires and demands. It would be much better to appoint someone who has been around to see the community develop over the years, who is familiar with the community already.
    In all honesty I believe bringing someone in from outside the forums would be a great idea, granted he/she possesses the necessary skill set required. I am blown away that there is support for the community having so much involvement with this decision. This is a PAID position, so why should the community have a say? Is the community shelling out the funds necessary to pay this individual? No.

    When a manager hires a supervisor does he go to his current employees and ask them for input? No. It is their money being spent, and it his their decision alone.

    Lethal you mentioned the new CM needs to be trained? This is utter nonsense. If a CM is hired and put into place he/she should be deserving of the title to the point they can come in without any training. No offence to Cuguy, but why would the forum want the new CM being trained from the current CM who is being ousted for doing a bad job? Does that make sense? No.

    I have no clue who is on the panel, but do these individuals even have a clue what it takes to be a CM, what tasks are necessary, etc? This process may be ultimately doomed before it begins, because the decision is in the hands of those who may not fully understand what the CM role means, and encompasses.

    9 years and counting!

  20. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by justintheman87 View Post
    What if the idea behind the "council" were changed to say they were nothing more than an "input" process with Steven making the ultimate decision? That would make more sense in my opinion. This is a huge decision, accompanied with huge changes behind it. To have a select few forum members make this decision seems a bit uncharacteristic to me on how to make a major decision that will effect everyone. Why is there a mindset that someone from the community needs to be selected, or knows what needs to be accomplished? This place needs someone who knows how to work with a community, to bring it together, and prosper. A CM needs to understand how communities work in general and how to build on them while growing a relationship with said community.

    Steven, experience on the forums has nothing to do with this decision. Based on the applications alone should be enough to decide who will become the new CM for PSU. The information contained within the application will speak volumes, and THAT is the only thing that should be considered when making a selection, not a post count, rep score, existing popularity on the forum, or current forum role.

    Also my first question wasn't answered. Why is the CM position still being held when it is currently being applied for?
    I am confident that Steven will make an informed discision after the applications have been viewed and discussed by the panel.

  21. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by justintheman87 View Post
    This is a PAID position, so why should the community have a say? Is the community shelling out the funds necessary to pay this individual? No.
    In a roundabout way, yes they are. We have subscribers. The amount of people on the forums and the rest of the site sells our advertising.


    Lethal you mentioned the new CM needs to be trained? This is utter nonsense. If a CM is hired and put into place he/she should be deserving of the title to the point they can come in without any training. No offence to Cuguy, but why would the forum want the new CM being trained from the current CM who is being ousted for doing a bad job? Does that make sense? No.

    I have no clue who is on the panel, but do these individuals even have a clue what it takes to be a CM, what tasks are necessary, etc? This process may be ultimately doomed before it begins, because the decision is in the hands of those who may not fully understand what the CM role means, and encompasses.
    There's a lot more to the PSU forums then just managing the community. Vbulletin has a lot of depth to it which I'm learning myself. If Rob was not successful we would need him to help with a transition. Rob is not being ousted, we've just changed what we want from a CM.
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  22. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    In a roundabout way, yes they are. We have subscribers. The amount of people on the forums and the rest of the site sells our advertising.

    There's a lot more to the PSU forums then just managing the community. Vbulletin has a lot of depth to it which I'm learning myself. If Rob was not successful we would need him to help with a transition. Rob is not being ousted, we've just changed what we want from a CM.
    If a proper CM were involved more people would be subscribing, as lets face it, there is no value for the fee. Plus there hasn't been much going on to try and change this either. Granted on a rough guess on what it costs to maintain this site monthly, there is no way subscription fees alone pay that bill, advertising does.

    I also understand vBulletin is involved, and this leads me back to my initial point of having someone with EXPERIENCE who can come in and instantly jump on the CM role and hammer it home.

    9 years and counting!

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  25. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    Vbulletin can be learned easily. You can't learn creativity, passion and vision.
    vBulletin is very user friendly, and will not require a whole lot of time and energy. But it should be noted that a candidate with VB experience is a definite asset.

    9 years and counting!

  26. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    Vbulletin can be learned easily. You can't learn creativity, passion and vision.
    Agreed. vBulletin is easy to get under your belt, and PSU has a slew of creative and passionate people. I think that's something to point out. If we want a good Community Manager, we need not only someone who knows what they're doing, but is passionate about doing it.

    Haven't we seen what happens when you bring in someone who isn't passionate as Community Manager? Their activity drops and they drift away, never to be heard from again. Cuguy broke the trend by being passionate about PSU.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    Agreed. vBulletin is easy to get under your belt, and PSU has a slew of creative and passionate people. I think that's something to point out. If we want a good Community Manager, we need not only someone who knows what they're doing, but is passionate about doing it.

    Haven't we seen what happens when you bring in someone who isn't passionate as Community Manager? Their activity drops and they drift away, never to be heard from again. Cuguy broke the trend by being passionate about PSU.
    Having passion is great, but results speak louder than passion I'm afraid.

    9 years and counting!

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