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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    By standby mode are you talking about the sleep mode? Where you can come back on and instantly pick up the game where you left off? If that's the case, Im extrememly interested to see the consumption on that
    From what I've heard/seen/read, they really haven't totally clarified what all lower power states they'll have. There could be multiple like there are on PS3 (Full on, Remote Play Standby ~15W on Phat, and regular Standby/Powerdown w/ only the Bluetooth still active for Remote turn on.)

    If I've read enough between the lines on PS4 we'll have
    Full Power On - Duh!
    Standby 1 - Instant Game Recovery as you described. The memories are put in refresh mode, and APU put in a low power state but not shut down. 2ndary chipset still active (controller for Network, HDD, BT - everything needed to background update, wake on Remote Access, etc.)
    Standby 2 - APU and GDDR powered down. 2ndary chipset still active for updates, etc.

    Standby 1 would still consume more power than Standby 2, but would leave your games in last known state. Delta in power consumption of leaving the GDDR5 in Refresh mode and keeping the APU in low power state vs having this off may be as high as 20W more (educated guess only)

    I've heard Sony distinctly describe both scenarios, but whether when describing what I've stated as Standby 2, they left out the APU being in low power and GDDR3 in refresh intentionally since it was a different mode or was a simple omission as they where just trying to get the features out is still to be determined.



  2. #77
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    for some reason you're pissing me off.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    From what I've heard/seen/read, they really haven't totally clarified what all lower power states they'll have. There could be multiple like there are on PS3 (Full on, Remote Play Standby ~15W on Phat, and regular Standby/Powerdown w/ only the Bluetooth still active for Remote turn on.)

    If I've read enough between the lines on PS4 we'll have
    Full Power On - Duh!
    Standby 1 - Instant Game Recovery as you described. The memories are put in refresh mode, and APU put in a low power state but not shut down. 2ndary chipset still active (controller for Network, HDD, BT - everything needed to background update, wake on Remote Access, etc.)
    Standby 2 - APU and GDDR powered down. 2ndary chipset still active for updates, etc.

    Standby 1 would still consume more power than Standby 2, but would leave your games in last known state. Delta in power consumption of leaving the GDDR5 in Refresh mode and keeping the APU in low power state vs having this off may be as high as 20W more (educated guess only)

    I've heard Sony distinctly describe both scenarios, but whether when describing what I've stated as Standby 2, they left out the APU being in low power and GDDR3 in refresh intentionally since it was a different mode or was a simple omission as they where just trying to get the features out is still to be determined.
    riiiight and is it the APu or the 2ndary chip that allows the ps4 to update while in low power mode?


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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    riiiight and is it the APu or the 2ndary chip that allows the ps4 to update while in low power mode?


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    The secondary chip.
    "Courage is the key to life.

  5. #80
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    why do they need a separate chip to update it in low power mode?

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    No freaking clue, I just remember Sony talking about it at their original conference.
    "Courage is the key to life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    The secondary chip.
    2ndary chip and is that the edram or whatever it's called?


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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    for some reason you're pissing me off.
    Not sure why but oh, well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    why do they need a separate chip to update it in low power mode?
    Separate controller is probably on the order of a couple of watts of power consumption, why the APU even at a very low power state w/ the GDDR active is probably on the order of 10-20W. Besides the APU doesn't have a native Ethernet support so why not have a low power 2ndary device use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    2ndary chip and is that the edram or whatever it's called?


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    edram is Embedded DRAM. I haven't heard whether the 2ndary chip uses it - it's not really that relevant, the 2ndary chip would want to have only a sufficient amount required for it's task and just enough performance (not much) to accomplish it's tasks at as low of power as possible.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    Not sure why but oh, well.



    Separate controller is probably on the order of a couple of watts of power consumption, why the APU even at a very low power state w/ the GDDR active is probably on the order of 10-20W. Besides the APU doesn't have a native Ethernet support so why not have a low power 2ndary device use it.



    edram is Embedded DRAM. I haven't heard whether the 2ndary chip uses it - it's not really that relevant, the 2ndary chip would want to have only a sufficient amount required for it's task and just enough performance (not much) to accomplish it's tasks at as low of power as possible.
    oh ok so that has nothing to do with what they're need for the 2nd chip. thanks for clearing that up I was kinda confused


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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    oh ok so that has nothing to do with what they're need for the 2nd chip. thanks for clearing that up I was kinda confused


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    BTW, eDRAM doesn't even have any performance definitions, it's just a generic term for DRAM that's Embedded in a processor. It tends not to be much on the performance side, but is lower power for the size. I'd expect a healthy amount of SRAM used for L1/L2 Caches to be embedded in the APUs, w/ a possiblity of and L3 being eDRAM. I thought I heard something about the XBone's APU having eDRAM, but to me at this point w/o real details regarding clocking rates, size, bus widths and details of the L1 and L2 caches, talking about it is pure speculation as to its significance.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    BTW, eDRAM doesn't even have any performance definitions, it's just a generic term for DRAM that's Embedded in a processor. It tends not to be much on the performance side, but is lower power for the size. I'd expect a healthy amount of SRAM used for L1/L2 Caches to be embedded in the APUs, w/ a possiblity of and L3 being eDRAM. I thought I heard something about the XBone's APU having eDRAM, but to me at this point w/o real details regarding clocking rates, size, bus widths and details of the L1 and L2 caches, talking about it is pure speculation as to its significance.
    ok see posts like these make me feel stupid lol. I gotta read up on everything u just said. thanks for the info


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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    ok see posts like these make me feel stupid lol. I gotta read up on everything u just said. thanks for the info


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    Nothing really to feel stupid about. To be honest even those who spout the information tend to have little idea of what they're talking about unless they have worked w/ or developed high performance SoC Architectures.

    I just watched Cerny's Gameplay 2013 presentation. He actually contrasted their options of using a 256bit wide GDDR5 interface w/ no eDRAM (he didn't say it but it would have been the L3 memory inside - relatively large for inside but extremely small in size compared to the 8GB of GDDR5) vs a 128-bit wide GDDR5 interface.

    Basically 176GB/s GDDR5 w/ no eDRAM vs 88GB/s GDDR5 w/ an eDRAM (@1088GB/s internal.)

    I could only imagine this would have been an L3 memory operating a CPU speed w/ 1024bit access to each of the 8 cores. But it would have to be limited to something on the order of 10's of MB's in size (maybe 32 or 64MB.)

    Cerny's comments was they choose the wider GDDR5 as it would allow for faster out of the box performance instead of waiting for developers to figure out which items they need to optimize to use the small eDRAM.

    Unfortunately he didn't go into much details regarding the quantities of eDRAM he was thinking about or the L1/L2 cache architecture. I would have loved to see that, but at this point he was apologizing to the audience for getting too technical.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    Not sure why but oh, well.
    lol not you. this other guy they probably banned now. he was spamming.

    Separate controller is probably on the order of a couple of watts of power consumption, why the APU even at a very low power state w/ the GDDR active is probably on the order of 10-20W. Besides the APU doesn't have a native Ethernet support so why not have a low power 2ndary device use it.
    Ah i see, makes sense.

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