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    PS4 GPU Can perform asynchronous complex processes

    A couple of days back, Mark Cerny, the lead architect on the PlayStation 4, attended Gamelab 2013, a developer conference which took place in Barcelona. At the conference he spoke in great length about the PS4 and its set of features.

    He also spoke about how the PS4′s GPU is not only limited to handling the graphics but also complex processes which is traditionally handled by the CPU.
    “We have worked hard to ensure that the console has a rich feature set, which will allow it to grow over the years and support the overall evolution of gaming. And our work there on that rich feature was to focus on making sure that for those teams that were interested in investing time, the GPU could be used for far more conventional graphics. Principally, we enhanced the GPU to make the use of asynchronous fine grained compute practical on the platform. So the asynchronous refers to the GPU doing many tasks which is not directly related to graphics.”
    He believes that the developers will be able to develop richer worlds if they are able to unlock the true potential of this feature set.

    “Physics simulation, collision detection, ray casting for audio, decompression and the like. And these operations are fine grained meaning that there will be many small world simulation tasks running on the GPU simultaneously alongside rendering of the game scenes. So the concept is that as game developers learn to use these techniques later on in the console life cycle, we will see richer and even more interactive worlds.”
    The presentation also had a slide which gave more details about the PS4 GPU and it’s capabilities:

    As you can see from the image above, the PS4′s GPU can also handle some of the CPU based tasks like collision detection and simulation.
    Decompression
    Raycasting of Audio
    Physics Simulation
    Collision Detection
    World Simulation
    http://gamingbolt.com/mark-cerny-exp...plex-processes
    Last edited by BrosephFTW; 07-02-2013 at 03:55.
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    Well, hopefully developers will use this feature. I can't wait to see what (first party) developers will come up with.

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    Whats an asynchronous complex processes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by A1ANDY View Post
    Whats an asynchronous complex processes?
    Basically it means they can do a lot of crap - anytime they want - on a lot of things they normally couldn't.

    Often you'll see the GPU being used to do some limited complex processes, but it would often be lock step w/ other processing going on in the GPU as GPU's tend to be very synchronous. This would give it a bit more freedom in performing these extra complex processes by not limiting when they can be done (or potentially tying up other HW when they are being done.)



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    Basically it means they can do a lot of crap - anytime they want - on a lot of things they normally couldn't.

    Often you'll see the GPU being used to do some limited complex processes, but it would often be lock step w/ other processing going on in the GPU as GPU's tend to be very synchronous. This would give it a bit more freedom in performing these extra complex processes by not limiting when they can be done (or potentially tying up other HW when they are being done.)
    OK that's about what I thought.




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    Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation. That GPU is not going to have any anything left to power the graphics. The GPU is already underpowered is as and doesn't need this extra burden slowing it down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation. That GPU is not going to have any anything left to power the graphics. The GPU is already underpowered is as and doesn't need this extra burden slowing it down.
    If anything being able to do this should free up resources at times, given that the devs can program it so that it's always using as much of it's power that it can instead of using 50% at one point and then using 100% at another point.

    Your post comes off as just another one of these "PS4 = weak sauce" posts, and adds little to nothing to the discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VayMasters86 View Post
    If anything being able to do this should free up resources at times, given that the devs can program it so that it's always using as much of it's power that it can instead of using 50% at one point and then using 100% at another point.

    Your post comes off as just another one of these "PS4 = weak sauce" posts, and adds little to nothing to the discussion.
    Eh? How does using the GPU for Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation free up the GPU to do more? That's just plain backwards. I don't think you understand how GPUs work.

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    The idea behind having all those ACE's onboard and streamlining the GPGPU compute process in PS4 is that, when the PS4 GPU has down time (and it will, GPU's aren't being 100% utilized 100% of the time) you can slot it to do these other tasks. Basically incorporating this potential into the render flow for the game.

    I'm also not sure why you think this thing is 'under powered'. The growth from PS3-->PS4 is a very large one.

    Just over half of all GPU's for PC gaming (STEAM survey) are DX11.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


    Look at the RAM and CPU statistics here:

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

    Further, just because there exist ever more powerful GPU's coming out all the time doesn't mean that PC gamers are dropping their stuff and going out and getting them in droves. Modern GPU's are getting terribly powerful yes, but also very hot and expensive. It wasn't like this in 2006, not even close.

    Further, the consoles are not at all like PC's. This has never been more true than it is now. We are talking about the world's most powerful APU's, which to put simplistically are a super processing unit from a holistic point of view, against typical discreet parts in PC's.

    The age old arguent has always been "sum of its parts" when it comes to consoles.. And now that they're APUs this adage is especially true.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 07-02-2013 at 21:54.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    The idea behind having all those ACE's onboard and streamlining the GPGPU compute process in PS4 is that, when the PS4 GPU has down time (and it will, GPU's aren't being 100% utilized 100% of the time) you can slot it to do these other tasks. Basically incorporating this potential into the render flow for the game.

    I'm also not sure why you think this thing is 'under powered'. The growth from PS3-->PS4 is a very large one.

    Just over half of all GPU's for PC gaming (STEAM survey) are DX11.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


    Look at the RAM and CPU statistics here:

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

    Further, just because there exist ever more powerful GPU's coming out all the time doesn't mean that PC gamers are dropping their stuff and going out and getting them in droves. Modern GPU's are getting terribly powerful yes, but also very hot and expensive. It wasn't like this in 2006, not even close.

    Further, the consoles are not at all like PC's. This has never been more true than it is now. We are talking about the world's most powerful APU's, which to put simplistically are a super processing unit from a holistic point of view, against typical discreet parts in PC's.

    The age old arguent has always been "sum of its parts" when it comes to consoles.. And now that they're APUs this adage is especially true.
    All you are saying is that if select scenes aren't demanding, your game can have things like physics enabled during those select scenes and those select scenes only. That's no different than how any other GPU. A less demanding scene means the developer can add to more make it demanding. And physics is going to take away a lot from the GPU. If you wish to know why Final Fantasy XV didn't look truly next gen, it's probably because the GPU is handling all the physics.

    And I don't what the purpose of comparing the power of the Playstation 4 to the 2006's PS3 and today's average joe's PC hardware to show how powerful the console is. While it is true that consoles never do rival top end PC hardware, it is also true that consoles don't release on hardware too significantly weaker. Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX. It's going to be hard for these consoles to deliver a true next gen experience if the CPU is left untouched while the GPU does all the work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    All you are saying is that if select scenes aren't demanding, your game can have things like physics enabled during those select scenes and those select scenes only. That's no different than how any other GPU. A less demanding scene means the developer can add to more make it demanding. And physics is going to take away a lot from the GPU. If you wish to know why Final Fantasy XV didn't look truly next gen, it's probably because the GPU is handling all the physics.

    And I don't what the purpose of comparing the power of the Playstation 4 to the 2006's PS3 and today's average joe's PC hardware to show how powerful the console is. While it is true that consoles never do rival top end PC hardware, it is also true that consoles don't release on hardware too significantly weaker. Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX. It's going to be hard for these consoles to deliver a true next gen experience if the CPU is left untouched while the GPU does all the work.
    Because this...



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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    Because this...

    That looks beautiful, but all those building are far off in the distance and thus have no real detail to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    All you are saying is that if select scenes aren't demanding, your game can have things like physics enabled during those select scenes and those select scenes only. That's no different than how any other GPU. A less demanding scene means the developer can add to more make it demanding. And physics is going to take away a lot from the GPU. If you wish to know why Final Fantasy XV didn't look truly next gen, it's probably because the GPU is handling all the physics.

    And I don't what the purpose of comparing the power of the Playstation 4 to the 2006's PS3 and today's average joe's PC hardware to show how powerful the console is. While it is true that consoles never do rival top end PC hardware, it is also true that consoles don't release on hardware too significantly weaker. Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX. It's going to be hard for these consoles to deliver a true next gen experience if the CPU is left untouched while the GPU does all the work.
    http://techreport.com/review/22653/n...sor-reviewed/7


    GTX680 Tflops: 3.1
    PS4 Tflops: 1.84




    1.84/3.1 = .59

    PS4 is 60% as powerful as a GTX 680. A card that costs $450 USD and has a TDP of 195W all by itself (which is a large step down from the 580's TDP of 240W, but you get my point).

    So no, the PS4 is not "less than 50% as powerful as a GTX 680" unless you're using some other metric to make that case.

    That aside, flop count is not the end all be all of performance indication especially for a console.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 07-02-2013 at 23:11.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation. That GPU is not going to have any anything left to power the graphics. The GPU is already underpowered is as and doesn't need this extra burden slowing it down.
    Top PC games today are powered by much less.
    Note: Even though Titan is available games today are not making use of that tech.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    http://techreport.com/review/22653/n...sor-reviewed/7


    GTX680 Tflops: 3.1
    PS4 Tflops: 1.84


    1.84/3.1 = .59

    PS4 is 60% as powerful as a GTX 680. A card that costs $450 USD and has a TDP of 195W all by itself (which is a large step down from the 580's TDP of 240W, but you get my point).

    So no, the PS4 is not "less than 50% as powerful as a GTX 680" unless you're using some other metric to make that case.
    You can't directly compare GPUs across different vendors like that. NVIDIA rates their GPUs differently than AMD.

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    I'm sorry, but didn't you invite that comparison with:

    Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX.
    So what I'm getting out of this, and pardon if this seems like it has a hostile tone, is that you can make comparisons between the next gen consoles (which sport AMD gpu's) when you think it suits your argument.. But I can't.

    This makes no sense to me.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 07-02-2013 at 23:18.
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    the gpu will take a lot off the cpu freeing up the cpu for other stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I'm sorry, but didn't you invite that comparison with:



    So what I'm getting out of this, and pardon if this seems like it has a hostile tone, is that you can make comparisons between the next gen consoles (which sport AMD gpu's) when you think it suits your argument.. But I can't.
    Of course I compared it to the power of the 680GTX. Because that stands to be absolutely true. But you are trying to directly compare the horsepower ratings across two different vendors, and that's a big no-no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Of course I compared it to the power of the 680GTX. Because that stands to be absolutely true. But you are trying to directly compare the horsepower ratings across two different vendors, and that's a big no-no.

    What? What are you even saying?

    Nvidia makes the GTX680, AMD makes the GPU's for both the next-gen consoles. Nvidia is not involved whatsoever in the next gen, AMD took it all.

    You're comparing the PS4 and Xbox One's graphical horsepower (AMD GPUs) to a GTX 680 by Nvidia.

    That's cross brand comparison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    What? What are you even saying?

    Nvidia makes the GTX680, AMD makes the GPU's for both the next-gen consoles. Nvidia is not involved whatsoever in the next gen, AMD took it all.

    You're comparing the PS4 and Xbox One's graphical horsepower (AMD GPUs) to a GTX 680 by Nvidia.

    That's cross brand comparison.
    There is nothing wrong with comparing the AMD GPU in the PS4 to the 680GTX.

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    Then, by that logic, there's nothing wrong with THIS post:

    1.84/3.1 = .59

    PS4 is 60% as powerful as a GTX 680. A card that costs $450 USD and has a TDP of 195W all by itself (which is a large step down from the 580's TDP of 240W, but you get my point).

    So no, the PS4 is not "less than 50% as powerful as a GTX 680" unless you're using some other metric to make that case.

    That aside, flop count is not the end all be all of performance indication especially for a console.

    PS4 is 1.84 TF, AMD GPU
    GTX680 is 3.1 TF, Nvidia GPU.

    You made the comparison first. I said your numbers are off through simple mathematics. PS4, from a GPU stand point of TF ratings alone, is 60% as powerful as a GTX680.

    You have no argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Then, by that logic, there's nothing wrong with THIS post:

    PS4 is 1.84 TF, AMD GPU
    GTX680 is 3.1 TF, Nvidia GPU.

    You made the comparison first. I said your numbers are off through simple mathematics. PS4, from a GPU stand point of TF ratings alone, is 60% as powerful as a GTX680.

    You have no argument.
    [/B]
    I already told you what was wrong with your comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I already told you what was wrong with your comparison.
    Ok, let's keep this simple:

    You're wrong.
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