Page 1 of 10 1 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 235
  1. #1
    Newbie

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    PSN ID
    x6hosts
    Posts
    25
    Rep Power
    10
    Points
    537 (0 Banked)

    PS4 GPU Can perform asynchronous complex processes

    A couple of days back, Mark Cerny, the lead architect on the PlayStation 4, attended Gamelab 2013, a developer conference which took place in Barcelona. At the conference he spoke in great length about the PS4 and its set of features.

    He also spoke about how the PS4′s GPU is not only limited to handling the graphics but also complex processes which is traditionally handled by the CPU.
    “We have worked hard to ensure that the console has a rich feature set, which will allow it to grow over the years and support the overall evolution of gaming. And our work there on that rich feature was to focus on making sure that for those teams that were interested in investing time, the GPU could be used for far more conventional graphics. Principally, we enhanced the GPU to make the use of asynchronous fine grained compute practical on the platform. So the asynchronous refers to the GPU doing many tasks which is not directly related to graphics.”
    He believes that the developers will be able to develop richer worlds if they are able to unlock the true potential of this feature set.

    “Physics simulation, collision detection, ray casting for audio, decompression and the like. And these operations are fine grained meaning that there will be many small world simulation tasks running on the GPU simultaneously alongside rendering of the game scenes. So the concept is that as game developers learn to use these techniques later on in the console life cycle, we will see richer and even more interactive worlds.”
    The presentation also had a slide which gave more details about the PS4 GPU and it’s capabilities:

    As you can see from the image above, the PS4′s GPU can also handle some of the CPU based tasks like collision detection and simulation.
    Decompression
    Raycasting of Audio
    Physics Simulation
    Collision Detection
    World Simulation
    http://gamingbolt.com/mark-cerny-exp...plex-processes
    Last edited by BrosephFTW; 07-02-2013 at 03:55.
    Your life is the result of the decisions you make throughout it, if you dont like your life then it is time to start making better decisions.

  2. #2
    Superior Member
    Flumbooze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    PSN ID
    Flumbooze
    Posts
    588
    Rep Power
    11
    Points
    1,781 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Well, hopefully developers will use this feature. I can't wait to see what (first party) developers will come up with.

  3. #3
    PSU Live Streamer
    YoungMullah88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Charlotte
    PSN ID
    xShadow__WoIf | YoungMullah88
    Posts
    14,354
    Rep Power
    112
    Points
    33,058 (1,800 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Uh huh

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Apprentice
    A1ANDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Yorkshire
    PSN ID
    ANDYENG
    Posts
    201
    Rep Power
    0
    Points
    3,120 (0 Banked)
    Whats an asynchronous complex processes?

  5. Likes John Willaford likes this post
  6. #5
    Elite Guru
    TAZ427's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sugar Land, TX
    PSN ID
    TAZ427
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5,186
    Rep Power
    75
    Points
    21,952 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by A1ANDY View Post
    Whats an asynchronous complex processes?
    Basically it means they can do a lot of crap - anytime they want - on a lot of things they normally couldn't.

    Often you'll see the GPU being used to do some limited complex processes, but it would often be lock step w/ other processing going on in the GPU as GPU's tend to be very synchronous. This would give it a bit more freedom in performing these extra complex processes by not limiting when they can be done (or potentially tying up other HW when they are being done.)



  7. Likes John Willaford likes this post
  8. #6
    Veteran
    MonkeyClaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    PSN ID
    Tha_MonkeyClaw
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,853
    Rep Power
    95
    Points
    150,527 (0 Banked)
    Items Protect yourself

    -=[ PSN ID: Tha_MonkeyClaw ]=-

  9. #7
    Super Moderator
    PS4freak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    PSN ID
    lsutigers19
    Age
    26
    Posts
    13,794
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    86,155 (190,439 Banked)
    Items Final Fantasy XIIIFinal Fantasy XCall of Duty: Black OPSDragon Ball ZPS3 SlimGoogle Chrome
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    Basically it means they can do a lot of crap - anytime they want - on a lot of things they normally couldn't.

    Often you'll see the GPU being used to do some limited complex processes, but it would often be lock step w/ other processing going on in the GPU as GPU's tend to be very synchronous. This would give it a bit more freedom in performing these extra complex processes by not limiting when they can be done (or potentially tying up other HW when they are being done.)
    OK that's about what I thought.




    Currently Playing: ​ Watch Dogs
    Currently Waiting For: ​​ ​Destiny

  10. #8
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation. That GPU is not going to have any anything left to power the graphics. The GPU is already underpowered is as and doesn't need this extra burden slowing it down.

  11. #9
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    29
    Posts
    990
    Rep Power
    54
    Points
    5,797 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation. That GPU is not going to have any anything left to power the graphics. The GPU is already underpowered is as and doesn't need this extra burden slowing it down.
    If anything being able to do this should free up resources at times, given that the devs can program it so that it's always using as much of it's power that it can instead of using 50% at one point and then using 100% at another point.

    Your post comes off as just another one of these "PS4 = weak sauce" posts, and adds little to nothing to the discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    For goodness sake I hope nobody thinks to start labelling the console an Xbrick,
    oops
    -Regarding the Xbone A.K.A. the Xbrick

    "Faith - that's another word for ignorance isn't it?" -House

  12. #10
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by VayMasters86 View Post
    If anything being able to do this should free up resources at times, given that the devs can program it so that it's always using as much of it's power that it can instead of using 50% at one point and then using 100% at another point.

    Your post comes off as just another one of these "PS4 = weak sauce" posts, and adds little to nothing to the discussion.
    Eh? How does using the GPU for Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation free up the GPU to do more? That's just plain backwards. I don't think you understand how GPUs work.

  13. #11
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    108,860 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    The idea behind having all those ACE's onboard and streamlining the GPGPU compute process in PS4 is that, when the PS4 GPU has down time (and it will, GPU's aren't being 100% utilized 100% of the time) you can slot it to do these other tasks. Basically incorporating this potential into the render flow for the game.

    I'm also not sure why you think this thing is 'under powered'. The growth from PS3-->PS4 is a very large one.

    Just over half of all GPU's for PC gaming (STEAM survey) are DX11.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


    Look at the RAM and CPU statistics here:

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

    Further, just because there exist ever more powerful GPU's coming out all the time doesn't mean that PC gamers are dropping their stuff and going out and getting them in droves. Modern GPU's are getting terribly powerful yes, but also very hot and expensive. It wasn't like this in 2006, not even close.

    Further, the consoles are not at all like PC's. This has never been more true than it is now. We are talking about the world's most powerful APU's, which to put simplistically are a super processing unit from a holistic point of view, against typical discreet parts in PC's.

    The age old arguent has always been "sum of its parts" when it comes to consoles.. And now that they're APUs this adage is especially true.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 07-02-2013 at 21:54.


  14. Likes FireSol likes this post
  15. #12
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    The idea behind having all those ACE's onboard and streamlining the GPGPU compute process in PS4 is that, when the PS4 GPU has down time (and it will, GPU's aren't being 100% utilized 100% of the time) you can slot it to do these other tasks. Basically incorporating this potential into the render flow for the game.

    I'm also not sure why you think this thing is 'under powered'. The growth from PS3-->PS4 is a very large one.

    Just over half of all GPU's for PC gaming (STEAM survey) are DX11.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


    Look at the RAM and CPU statistics here:

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

    Further, just because there exist ever more powerful GPU's coming out all the time doesn't mean that PC gamers are dropping their stuff and going out and getting them in droves. Modern GPU's are getting terribly powerful yes, but also very hot and expensive. It wasn't like this in 2006, not even close.

    Further, the consoles are not at all like PC's. This has never been more true than it is now. We are talking about the world's most powerful APU's, which to put simplistically are a super processing unit from a holistic point of view, against typical discreet parts in PC's.

    The age old arguent has always been "sum of its parts" when it comes to consoles.. And now that they're APUs this adage is especially true.
    All you are saying is that if select scenes aren't demanding, your game can have things like physics enabled during those select scenes and those select scenes only. That's no different than how any other GPU. A less demanding scene means the developer can add to more make it demanding. And physics is going to take away a lot from the GPU. If you wish to know why Final Fantasy XV didn't look truly next gen, it's probably because the GPU is handling all the physics.

    And I don't what the purpose of comparing the power of the Playstation 4 to the 2006's PS3 and today's average joe's PC hardware to show how powerful the console is. While it is true that consoles never do rival top end PC hardware, it is also true that consoles don't release on hardware too significantly weaker. Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX. It's going to be hard for these consoles to deliver a true next gen experience if the CPU is left untouched while the GPU does all the work.

  16. #13
    Veteran
    MonkeyClaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    PSN ID
    Tha_MonkeyClaw
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,853
    Rep Power
    95
    Points
    150,527 (0 Banked)
    Items Protect yourself
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    All you are saying is that if select scenes aren't demanding, your game can have things like physics enabled during those select scenes and those select scenes only. That's no different than how any other GPU. A less demanding scene means the developer can add to more make it demanding. And physics is going to take away a lot from the GPU. If you wish to know why Final Fantasy XV didn't look truly next gen, it's probably because the GPU is handling all the physics.

    And I don't what the purpose of comparing the power of the Playstation 4 to the 2006's PS3 and today's average joe's PC hardware to show how powerful the console is. While it is true that consoles never do rival top end PC hardware, it is also true that consoles don't release on hardware too significantly weaker. Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX. It's going to be hard for these consoles to deliver a true next gen experience if the CPU is left untouched while the GPU does all the work.
    Because this...


    -=[ PSN ID: Tha_MonkeyClaw ]=-

  17. #14
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    Because this...

    That looks beautiful, but all those building are far off in the distance and thus have no real detail to them.

  18. #15
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    108,860 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    All you are saying is that if select scenes aren't demanding, your game can have things like physics enabled during those select scenes and those select scenes only. That's no different than how any other GPU. A less demanding scene means the developer can add to more make it demanding. And physics is going to take away a lot from the GPU. If you wish to know why Final Fantasy XV didn't look truly next gen, it's probably because the GPU is handling all the physics.

    And I don't what the purpose of comparing the power of the Playstation 4 to the 2006's PS3 and today's average joe's PC hardware to show how powerful the console is. While it is true that consoles never do rival top end PC hardware, it is also true that consoles don't release on hardware too significantly weaker. Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX. It's going to be hard for these consoles to deliver a true next gen experience if the CPU is left untouched while the GPU does all the work.
    http://techreport.com/review/22653/n...sor-reviewed/7


    GTX680 Tflops: 3.1
    PS4 Tflops: 1.84




    1.84/3.1 = .59

    PS4 is 60% as powerful as a GTX 680. A card that costs $450 USD and has a TDP of 195W all by itself (which is a large step down from the 580's TDP of 240W, but you get my point).

    So no, the PS4 is not "less than 50% as powerful as a GTX 680" unless you're using some other metric to make that case.

    That aside, flop count is not the end all be all of performance indication especially for a console.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 07-02-2013 at 23:11.


  19. #16
    Master Sage
    Bitbydeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    32
    Posts
    14,287
    Rep Power
    131
    Points
    44,321 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Decompression, Raycasting of Audio, Physics Simulation, Collision Detection, and World Simulation. That GPU is not going to have any anything left to power the graphics. The GPU is already underpowered is as and doesn't need this extra burden slowing it down.
    Top PC games today are powered by much less.
    Note: Even though Titan is available games today are not making use of that tech.

  20. Likes MonkeyClaw likes this post
  21. #17
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    http://techreport.com/review/22653/n...sor-reviewed/7


    GTX680 Tflops: 3.1
    PS4 Tflops: 1.84


    1.84/3.1 = .59

    PS4 is 60% as powerful as a GTX 680. A card that costs $450 USD and has a TDP of 195W all by itself (which is a large step down from the 580's TDP of 240W, but you get my point).

    So no, the PS4 is not "less than 50% as powerful as a GTX 680" unless you're using some other metric to make that case.
    You can't directly compare GPUs across different vendors like that. NVIDIA rates their GPUs differently than AMD.

  22. #18
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    108,860 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    I'm sorry, but didn't you invite that comparison with:

    Last gen, consoles were about 70%-ish of the 7800GTX if you look at the raw specs iirc, but this time around, both next gen consoles are less than half the power of the 680GTX.
    So what I'm getting out of this, and pardon if this seems like it has a hostile tone, is that you can make comparisons between the next gen consoles (which sport AMD gpu's) when you think it suits your argument.. But I can't.

    This makes no sense to me.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 07-02-2013 at 23:18.


  23. #19
    Ultimate Veteran
    coolguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    long island ny
    Age
    39
    Posts
    20,896
    Rep Power
    112
    Points
    29,525 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    the gpu will take a lot off the cpu freeing up the cpu for other stuff

  24. #20
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I'm sorry, but didn't you invite that comparison with:



    So what I'm getting out of this, and pardon if this seems like it has a hostile tone, is that you can make comparisons between the next gen consoles (which sport AMD gpu's) when you think it suits your argument.. But I can't.
    Of course I compared it to the power of the 680GTX. Because that stands to be absolutely true. But you are trying to directly compare the horsepower ratings across two different vendors, and that's a big no-no.

  25. #21
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    108,860 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Of course I compared it to the power of the 680GTX. Because that stands to be absolutely true. But you are trying to directly compare the horsepower ratings across two different vendors, and that's a big no-no.

    What? What are you even saying?

    Nvidia makes the GTX680, AMD makes the GPU's for both the next-gen consoles. Nvidia is not involved whatsoever in the next gen, AMD took it all.

    You're comparing the PS4 and Xbox One's graphical horsepower (AMD GPUs) to a GTX 680 by Nvidia.

    That's cross brand comparison.


  26. Likes Kauldron likes this post
  27. #22
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    What? What are you even saying?

    Nvidia makes the GTX680, AMD makes the GPU's for both the next-gen consoles. Nvidia is not involved whatsoever in the next gen, AMD took it all.

    You're comparing the PS4 and Xbox One's graphical horsepower (AMD GPUs) to a GTX 680 by Nvidia.

    That's cross brand comparison.
    There is nothing wrong with comparing the AMD GPU in the PS4 to the 680GTX.

  28. #23
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    108,860 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Then, by that logic, there's nothing wrong with THIS post:

    1.84/3.1 = .59

    PS4 is 60% as powerful as a GTX 680. A card that costs $450 USD and has a TDP of 195W all by itself (which is a large step down from the 580's TDP of 240W, but you get my point).

    So no, the PS4 is not "less than 50% as powerful as a GTX 680" unless you're using some other metric to make that case.

    That aside, flop count is not the end all be all of performance indication especially for a console.

    PS4 is 1.84 TF, AMD GPU
    GTX680 is 3.1 TF, Nvidia GPU.

    You made the comparison first. I said your numbers are off through simple mathematics. PS4, from a GPU stand point of TF ratings alone, is 60% as powerful as a GTX680.

    You have no argument.


  29. Likes Zswordsman likes this post
  30. #24
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Then, by that logic, there's nothing wrong with THIS post:

    PS4 is 1.84 TF, AMD GPU
    GTX680 is 3.1 TF, Nvidia GPU.

    You made the comparison first. I said your numbers are off through simple mathematics. PS4, from a GPU stand point of TF ratings alone, is 60% as powerful as a GTX680.

    You have no argument.
    [/B]
    I already told you what was wrong with your comparison.

  31. #25
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    108,860 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I already told you what was wrong with your comparison.
    Ok, let's keep this simple:

    You're wrong.


  32. Likes Cyn , Zswordsman, Kauldron, Bitbydeath likes this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.