Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 4 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 235
  1. #76
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Who told you the Xbox 360 had a more powerful GPU than top end at the time? It has 128 bit bus which crippled it for starters. Probably not the best example, Oblivion was developed on Xbox mostly with an Apple G3. But yes, there was GPU's that had more powerful advantages (memory for starters).
    I'm almost positive that I read that it was an Apple G4. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/23855/...elopment-Kits/

  2. #77
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,371
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    156,050 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    I'm almost positive that I read that it was an Apple G4. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/23855/...elopment-Kits/
    LOL, yes it was, sorry.

  3. #78
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,371
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    156,050 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I will not acknowledge any comparison of the PS4 to the Titan. That's unrealistic. I'm comparing it to the 680GTX as I keep saying and for the reason that the 680GTX is the 7800GTX equivalent of 2013.
    Well I can get a 3gb 7970 for about $500, which is a pretty good match/comparison as any.

    The thermals on these chips is about 250 watts.

    You could never fit that inside one of these machines.

    They have certain thermal constraints a PC box does not have.
    I would suggest that is more of a driving factor than raw power.

  4. #79
    Dedicated Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    PSN ID
    Foraeli
    Posts
    1,062
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    12,958 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well I can get a 3gb 7970 for about $500, which is a pretty good match/comparison as any.

    The thermals on these chips is about 250 watts.

    You could never fit that inside one of these machines.

    They have certain thermal constraints a PC box does not have.
    I would suggest that is more of a driving factor than raw power.
    I don't expect Sony to put in an actual top tier card in. I just want them to bridge the gap between the two a little better like they have done before. Something like 70% of the power of the HD7970 very would be doable. Sony seems to have cut back a bit in some places in the hardware budget this time around. It may have been to accommodate the more expensive GDDR5, but whatever the case, the lower power CPU and GPU are what made the very small form factor of the Playstation 4 so possible.

  5. #80
    Forum Guru
    jlippone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,814
    Rep Power
    85
    Points
    9,943 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Using the extra 4 CU's will help in possible shader claculations, but only for very very complex shaders.

    Not only that but you can run these 4 completly seperaltey from the other 14.

    In other words CU's can be running calculaitons, while others can be doing GPU rendering.

    This is not an either/or situation.
    Also during a time of a frame there are times when some of the ALUs, Texture units or ROPs are underutilized.
    The ability to use those resources for something else in that time is quite nice thing to have.

    Quite common case would be post processing which can be quite texture heavy and leaves ALUs twiddling their thumbs, this would be excellent time to raycast sounds.. (Even better might be the during rendering of G-Buffer and shadow maps)
    Simply put, getting more out of the GPU is a good thing.

    Fine grained control of GPU is very good thing to have.
    'no, no one in their sane mind uses OpenGL on PS3' - Repi
    'nope, PS3 uses a wonderful low-level API called libgcm' - Repi

  6. #81
    Superior Member
    Flumbooze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    PSN ID
    Flumbooze
    Posts
    588
    Rep Power
    10
    Points
    1,781 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    It's not pointless. The 680GTX is actually a close equivalent to the HD7970 despite this. Both are neck-and-neck in most all game comparisons as they are designed to compete with each other. And at any rate, they used very poor horsepower ratings to conclude the power of the console to PC hardware. Thank you tho for actually reading my posts lol.
    Seriously, $#@! off and go buy your gaming PC and stop troubling us.

  7. #82
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    30,145
    Rep Power
    190
    Points
    102,250 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I don't expect Sony to put in an actual top tier card in. I just want them to bridge the gap between the two a little better like they have done before. Something like 70% of the power of the HD7970 very would be doable. Sony seems to have cut back a bit in some places in the hardware budget this time around. It may have been to accommodate the more expensive GDDR5, but whatever the case, the lower power CPU and GPU are what made the very small form factor of the Playstation 4 so possible.
    well then 70% of HD7970's power confirmed for the big Xbox One.

    amazing!

    get over it, you prefer MS and can't believe how Sony fit all that $#@! in a small form factor.

  8. Likes Two4DaMoney likes this post
  9. #83
    Super Elite
    FireSol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Moscow
    PSN ID
    FireSol
    Posts
    2,238
    Rep Power
    64
    Points
    10,521 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    well then 70% of HD7970's power confirmed for the big Xbox One.

    amazing!

    get over it, you prefer MS and can't believe how Sony fit all that $#@! in a small form factor.
    If Apple did this with Mac mini, then why Sony couldn't do that with PS4?

  10. #84
    Dedicated Member
    Sajuuk Khar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    26
    Posts
    1,388
    Rep Power
    72
    Points
    8,631 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by FireSol View Post
    If Apple did this with Mac mini, then why Sony couldn't do that with PS4?
    Ahh....the mini has no dedicated graphics....just intel onboard

  11. #85
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    23
    Posts
    15,950
    Rep Power
    143
    Points
    106,557 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    Also during a time of a frame there are times when some of the ALUs, Texture units or ROPs are underutilized.
    The ability to use those resources for something else in that time is quite nice thing to have.

    Quite common case would be post processing which can be quite texture heavy and leaves ALUs twiddling their thumbs, this would be excellent time to raycast sounds.. (Even better might be the during rendering of G-Buffer and shadow maps)
    Simply put, getting more out of the GPU is a good thing.

    Fine grained control of GPU is very good thing to have.
    The PS4 GPU does not have any solid 'division' between its CU's. It's 18 unified CU's, not a hard 14+4 split. ERP and other devs at B3D condemned this rumor as a 'misunderstanding' of the phrase 'balanced 14+4 CU's'.

    How exactly are these 4CU's limited\specialized vs the other 14?
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 07-03-2013 at 15:24.


  12. #86
    Super Elite
    FireSol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Moscow
    PSN ID
    FireSol
    Posts
    2,238
    Rep Power
    64
    Points
    10,521 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Ahh....the mini has no dedicated graphics....just intel onboard
    but mini even smaller, but my main idea was that is nothing impossible here if you have good engineers

  13. #87
    Veteran
    MonkeyClaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    PSN ID
    Tha_MonkeyClaw
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,808
    Rep Power
    94
    Points
    146,772 (0 Banked)
    Items Protect yourself
    One thing Sony does have are some amazing engineers!

    -=[ PSN ID: Tha_MonkeyClaw ]=-

  14. #88
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    30,145
    Rep Power
    190
    Points
    102,250 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by FireSol View Post
    but mini even smaller, but my main idea was that is nothing impossible here if you have good engineers
    Does mini have a blu-ray player?

    thank you and come again.

  15. #89
    Administrator
    Brandon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,230
    Rep Power
    126
    Points
    119,629 (18,076 Banked)
    Items Ghost in the ShellTidusLightningBruce LeeAppleUser name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!

    PS4 GPU Can perform asynchronous complex processes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Ahh....the mini has no dedicated graphics....just intel onboard
    The Mini used to have a dedicated GPU, Apple just decided to stop implementing it... for reasons which are beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Does mini have a blu-ray player?

    thank you and come again.
    It doesn't even have a disc drive, for that matter.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  16. #90
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    30,145
    Rep Power
    190
    Points
    102,250 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    The Mini used to have a dedicated GPU, Apple just decided to stop implementing it... for reasons which are beyond me.
    It's Apple...they wanna make more money.
    It doesn't even have a disc drive, for that matter.
    I know :P hence why it's smaller than the PS4.

  17. #91
    Administrator
    Brandon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,230
    Rep Power
    126
    Points
    119,629 (18,076 Banked)
    Items Ghost in the ShellTidusLightningBruce LeeAppleUser name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!

    PS4 GPU Can perform asynchronous complex processes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    It's Apple...they wanna make more money.
    The Mini is their cheapest Mac. They could've just had a dedicated GPU version that costs more. No sense in removing it entirely. They would just overcharge for the GPU anyway... the Apple tax! Anyway the point was that it had a GPU at one point in that tiny little box.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  18. #92
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    30,145
    Rep Power
    190
    Points
    102,250 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    The Mini is their cheapest Mac. They could've just had a dedicated GPU version that costs more. No sense in removing it entirely. They would just overcharge for the GPU anyway... the Apple tax! Anyway the point was that it had a GPU at one point in that tiny little box.
    It's always a better idea to have less SKUs. Less confused people. That's why I like iPhones better even though they're really not. Imagine if they had given out another SKU with just upgraded graphics card, how many people would care? this is marketed for casuals. it would've been a waste of resources and it takes more effort/money/time to have production lines for custom stuff. the more SKUs, the more money/time it takes.

    PS3 slim isn't much larger than the PS4. I think it's other components that take up more space. and blu-ray is a biggie.

    does the mini even have a dvd player?

  19. #93
    Administrator
    Brandon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,230
    Rep Power
    126
    Points
    119,629 (18,076 Banked)
    Items Ghost in the ShellTidusLightningBruce LeeAppleUser name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!

    PS4 GPU Can perform asynchronous complex processes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    PS3 slim isn't much larger than the PS4. I think it's other components that take up more space. and blu-
    Blu-ray drives don't take up much space. I have a 6x slim Blu-ray reader for my Air and it's friggin' tiny.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  20. #94
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    30,145
    Rep Power
    190
    Points
    102,250 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    Blu-ray drives don't take up much space. I have a 6x slim Blu-ray reader for my Air and it's friggin' tiny.
    sure but i'm sure it'd take up a few inches. and that's how much the difference is between this and the PS4.

  21. #95
    Forum Guru
    jlippone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,814
    Rep Power
    85
    Points
    9,943 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    The PS4 GPU does not have any solid 'division' between its CU's. It's 18 unified CU's, not a hard 14+4 split. ERP and other devs at B3D condemned this rumor as a 'misunderstanding' of the phrase 'balanced 14+4 CU's'.

    How exactly are these 4CU's limited\specialized vs the other 14?
    I didn't imply the old 14+4 rumor.

    I meant that the control is fine grained enough to allow developers to give different jobs within the 18CUs.
    Last edited by jlippone; 07-04-2013 at 06:49.
    'no, no one in their sane mind uses OpenGL on PS3' - Repi
    'nope, PS3 uses a wonderful low-level API called libgcm' - Repi

  22. #96
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    793
    Rep Power
    65
    Points
    5,855 (0 Banked)
    I really don't understand these threads. The games look the $#@!! We all know the PCs will always come out on top but for an investment of $399 I think you will get your money's worth over the next several years. I imagine an investment of $400 into a current gaming rig would net you some pretty decent quality gaming over the next couple years but for someone without one no way you could build anything close from the ground up.

    That said this gen looks pretty sweet and most importantly we should see development time and costs go down and get more games released on ALL platforms so all gamers win no matter what they are playing. The PS4 may not be a complete beast compared to pcs but they can mimic qualities of some of those pcs and I'm not complaining. The tech they have in there is definately sufficient and has a great BANG for you BUCK.

  23. #97
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    23
    Posts
    15,950
    Rep Power
    143
    Points
    106,557 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    I didn't imply the old 14+4 rumor.

    I meant that the control is fine grained enough to allow developers to give different jobs within the 18CUs.
    ooooh


  24. #98
    Apprentice
    XtraTrstrL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    PSN ID
    XtraTrstrL
    Posts
    339
    Rep Power
    15
    Points
    4,813 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Not sure why you would compare a closed box system to a PC component in the first place.
    Between coding efficiencies and tighter bus control, you gong to see efficiencies exceeding their teraflop spec differences.
    This, they'll be coding much closer to the metal. And although the raw GPU numbers will never surpass the power of a card like the 7970 or GTX680, the actual game results could easily match and eventually surpass the quality those cards can produce (and isn't that all that really matters?). The reason is the HSA nature of the APU in the PS4. It's basically impossible to directly compare it to a regular CPU\GPU like you could do with past APUs because of this and for the obvious reason that it's being implemented into a console(closed-platform).

    Foraeli doesn't understand the point of the asynchronous fine-grain compute. Using the GPU for these other normally CPU intensive calculations only while the GPU isn't maxing out is an extremely efficient way of doing things. And it doesn't take away from anything the GPU would have been doing anyways, it's just getting more use out of the GPU, leaving more for the CPU to do, and wasting little to no available power in there. This will also make direct comparisons fall further off the mark than usual when comparing consoles to PCs. As APIs are adjusted to make better use of GPGPU functions, the resulting quality of games will incrementally increase in everything from visual fidelity to AI.

    There's also much less overhead in the PS4, with all the dedicated chips(so the specs are much more impressive, knowing almost 100% is going toward pure gaming). The OS is a modified version of FreeBSD 9.0 that has a very small memory footprint and is exceptionally good at multitasking. The secondary chip ARM processor runs the OS and background processes, HDD access and downloads. The audio chip handles cross-game chat and 200 concurrent mp3 streams in-game. The video encoder/decoder handles the constant 15 minute block of recorded gameplay and Vita remote-play. And the zlib decompressor extracts compressed media on the fly. There should really be much more hype surrounding these new AMD APUs with full HSA, it really is the right direction for the future of computing, and PS4 and Xbone are going to be the first pieces of hardware to put it to work. So, in response to Foraeli, taking into account the nature of the hardware architecture, the resulting visual quality and overall scope of games on the PS4 is probably going to be closer to that of a current top end PC and GPU than the PS3 and 360 were for their time.

  25. #99
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    30,145
    Rep Power
    190
    Points
    102,250 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    This, they'll be coding much closer to the metal. And although the raw GPU numbers will never surpass the power of a card like the 7970 or GTX680, the actual game results could easily match and eventually surpass the quality those cards can produce (and isn't that all that really matters?). The reason is the HSA nature of the APU in the PS4. It's basically impossible to directly compare it to a regular CPU\GPU like you could do with past APUs because of this and for the obvious reason that it's being implemented into a console(closed-platform).

    Foraeli doesn't understand the point of the asynchronous fine-grain compute. Using the GPU for these other normally CPU intensive calculations only while the GPU isn't maxing out is an extremely efficient way of doing things. And it doesn't take away from anything the GPU would have been doing anyways, it's just getting more use out of the GPU, leaving more for the CPU to do, and wasting little to no available power in there. This will also make direct comparisons fall further off the mark than usual when comparing consoles to PCs. As APIs are adjusted to make better use of GPGPU functions, the resulting quality of games will incrementally increase in everything from visual fidelity to AI.

    There's also much less overhead in the PS4, with all the dedicated chips(so the specs are much more impressive, knowing almost 100% is going toward pure gaming). The OS is a modified version of FreeBSD 9.0 that has a very small memory footprint and is exceptionally good at multitasking. The secondary chip ARM processor runs the OS and background processes, HDD access and downloads. The audio chip handles cross-game chat and 200 concurrent mp3 streams in-game. The video encoder/decoder handles the constant 15 minute block of recorded gameplay and Vita remote-play. And the zlib decompressor extracts compressed media on the fly. There should really be much more hype surrounding these new AMD APUs with full HSA, it really is the right direction for the future of computing, and PS4 and Xbone are going to be the first pieces of hardware to put it to work. So, in response to Foraeli, taking into account the nature of the hardware architecture, the resulting visual quality and overall scope of games on the PS4 is probably going to be closer to that of a current top end PC and GPU than the PS3 and 360 were for their time.
    wow. 2nd post and already post of the year from me.

  26. #100
    Forum Elder
    chrisw26308's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    42
    Posts
    2,622
    Rep Power
    72
    Points
    13,403 (0 Banked)
    2nd that Sufi. Hopefully this guy sticks around for some of the technical discussions.

    I usually visit b3d for answers like this.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  27. Likes Omar likes this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.