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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Camera only costs $50 right?
    Even if they added it in they wouldn't up the price by exactly $50. (they take a cost hit on everything implemented)
    Likely they could have added it in and still kept the same price providing they were 1). set on that price and 2). thought the cam was required for every SKU.
    $60 but yeah the numbers don't quite add up. At most the console would have cost 450.




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  2. #27
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    I think they had no intention of having it in the box. Sony have never been as serious as Microsoft with there motion camera.

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    Whatever the reason, I am glad they didn't bundle it. I for one can't see a use for it (at the moment) and I am glad it's not an integral component ala the Xbox One. I would rather have the choice of buying it rather than being forced too, as part of the more expensive package.
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  4. #29
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    Isnt the PS4 camera a piece of crap anyway? Like $3-5 to produce? Cant see why that would make any difference in keeping the cost down. Also it seems Sony have ditched Move hence no camera in the box.

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    im just glad they are not forcing a camera upon everyone like ms is doing. i have no interest in motion controls.

  6. #31
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    Why is this still being doubted? Jack said that this was the price they've been aiming for all along. And if you watch that Up at Noon video (IGN) - he said something along the lines of that whatever price MS would have announced that morning, their price has long been set.

    So I don't really get why podcasts, articles, etc are still talking about this like it's some kind of reactionary thing from Sony.

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Why is this still being doubted? Jack said that this was the price they've been aiming for all along. And if you watch that Up at Noon video (IGN) - he said something along the lines of that whatever price MS would have announced that morning, their price has long been set. So I don't really get why podcasts, articles, etc are still talking about this like it's some kind of reactionary thing from Sony.
    Its called stirring the pot in order to get hits.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Its called stirring the pot in order to get hits.
    agreed. every article with "console war" in it is fishing for hits


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  9. #34
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    False,i think there are bundles on amazon with Playstation plus and a game for 500 doubt they had a camera worth 100,as they said its not for every body but could be wrong

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kauldron View Post
    I don't think Sony has ever forced a peripheral on their customers have they?

  11. #36
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    Interesting you should ask about how Sony should know what MS planned as far as cost. Just want to point one thing out. There IS such a thing as "business intelligence." Basically what some people would call spy work. I've worked for a company bidding on government business for example and they would do research and find out how many people a competitor has assigned to a project and what facilities and technologies they are planning on using. If the information wasn't in public findings, they'd make an educated guess but it's amazing how accurate they could be and thus determine ABOUT what it was going to cost a company to do the work and then guess on that companies probable bid.

    Don't kid yourself, electronics companies and others do the same thing to figure out how to price and place their products. So Sony and MS both could easily have figured out about what it was going to cost for each others next gen products. After all, didn't we all know about eh x86 architectures and roughly which GPU's both were going to use for some months now? I guarantee that both companies knew a lot more about the others product that we did! It looks to me like MS either had lousy business intelligence and really got faked out by Sony or they were arrogant and figured it didn't matter based on how well the 360 succeeded. Either way the capability was there and is there for both companies to figure out a LOT of what the other is doing. At this point Sony is simply executing much better, but it's early yet. We'll have to see which or if both launches go smoothly, how the first holiday season and then first year go, etc.

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  12. #37
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    Sony really hit hard to ms about price point. Even here I hear some screams.
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  13. #38
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    Sony may have found over time that an add-on camera peripheral sells better as separate packages and with bundles, around games that really make use of the features. The PSeye was there for a couple years before Move and their sales were dependent on game packages designed around the motion functions or with bundles. Motion and gesture control probably isn't going to really catch on until the camera is gone, that is, using other sensors like echo location and EM field distortion, so that it's just the behavior of the console within its radius, not associated with something intrusive like a camera eye.
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  14. #39
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    load of bs.

    i'd rather they just admitted it than implying that they're stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Like $3-5 to produce?
    ...mhm.
    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Why is this still being doubted? Jack said that this was the price they've been aiming for all along. And if you watch that Up at Noon video (IGN) - he said something along the lines of that whatever price MS would have announced that morning, their price has long been set.

    So I don't really get why podcasts, articles, etc are still talking about this like it's some kind of reactionary thing from Sony.
    only way i could be thinking why they added the move integration is that they wanted you to have half the equipment to begin with. So what are they charging the extra $10 for? touchpad?
    Last edited by Omar; 07-07-2013 at 16:10.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    Interesting you should ask about how Sony should know what MS planned as far as cost. Just want to point one thing out. There IS such a thing as "business intelligence." Basically what some people would call spy work. I've worked for a company bidding on government business for example and they would do research and find out how many people a competitor has assigned to a project and what facilities and technologies they are planning on using. If the information wasn't in public findings, they'd make an educated guess but it's amazing how accurate they could be and thus determine ABOUT what it was going to cost a company to do the work and then guess on that companies probable bid.

    Don't kid yourself, electronics companies and others do the same thing to figure out how to price and place their products. So Sony and MS both could easily have figured out about what it was going to cost for each others next gen products. After all, didn't we all know about eh x86 architectures and roughly which GPU's both were going to use for some months now? I guarantee that both companies knew a lot more about the others product that we did! It looks to me like MS either had lousy business intelligence and really got faked out by Sony or they were arrogant and figured it didn't matter based on how well the 360 succeeded. Either way the capability was there and is there for both companies to figure out a LOT of what the other is doing. At this point Sony is simply executing much better, but it's early yet. We'll have to see which or if both launches go smoothly, how the first holiday season and then first year go, etc.
    ok I see your point and I could see this happening. however, if both companies had "spies" or took educated guesses about how much the other console would cost, why did MS go with their price? do you think they guessed wrong or just thought that people would buy theirs anyways because of the more things you can do with it


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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    Interesting you should ask about how Sony should know what MS planned as far as cost. Just want to point one thing out. There IS such a thing as "business intelligence." Basically what some people would call spy work. I've worked for a company bidding on government business for example and they would do research and find out how many people a competitor has assigned to a project and what facilities and technologies they are planning on using. If the information wasn't in public findings, they'd make an educated guess but it's amazing how accurate they could be and thus determine ABOUT what it was going to cost a company to do the work and then guess on that companies probable bid.

    Don't kid yourself, electronics companies and others do the same thing to figure out how to price and place their products. So Sony and MS both could easily have figured out about what it was going to cost for each others next gen products. After all, didn't we all know about eh x86 architectures and roughly which GPU's both were going to use for some months now? I guarantee that both companies knew a lot more about the others product that we did! It looks to me like MS either had lousy business intelligence and really got faked out by Sony or they were arrogant and figured it didn't matter based on how well the 360 succeeded. Either way the capability was there and is there for both companies to figure out a LOT of what the other is doing. At this point Sony is simply executing much better, but it's early yet. We'll have to see which or if both launches go smoothly, how the first holiday season and then first year go, etc.
    While there's some amount of truth to this, there's also a lot of information that's left out when it comes to the final product. Educated guesses and some details on architecture are going to be there. That doesn't give you the pricing agreements negotiated, which are always kept extremely secret by both the Si vendor (AMD) and the OEMs. And this can very on the Si side by a lot. Take an example of a device that sells for $200 in 1000 unit quantities, well negotiation for 250K units per quarter will bring this down below $100. But it really depends on your companies negotiation skills and there real knowledge of it's cost to build (it may be $40 it may be $80 for the same size die and that cost will vary greatly with yield entitlement.)

    So you have a great variability in cost to build for one. And you have another question on revenue strategy. Is it to sell the HW at cost and hope to recoup more investment in royalties/digital sales/etc. or is it going to be focused on getting the money off the console. Wii was the 2nd strategy, PS3 was the 1st strategy, X360 was a bit in the middle.

    Historic trends doesn't necessarily mean things will stay that way. PSOne and PS2 where more of the 2nd strategy while they reversed that trend on PS3 (more out of necessity to avoid totally pricing themselves out of the market.)

    So I still say Sony didn't have any definitive knowledge of pricing on XB1 prior to announcement. They may have had a estimate of COB within $75 at best, but that would only put them at maybe a within $150 range on XB1 - And that doesn't even take into consideration if they decided to ship w/o Kinect which tosses more varience in potential pricing range.

    Also keep in mind you're business intelligence that you're talking about is about bidding on projects, you have an idea of the man-month efforts and possibly materials it will take to do a project, that's actually spec'd with full set of requirements made available so that multiple groups can bid on things.

    I'd have to say industrial espionage is much more limited than you make it sound to be and false information can be provided just as easily as valid information.



  17. #42
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    What you guys don't get is that Sony's strategy is planned months and months ahead of E3. Also, how could they know what the Xbone price would be?

    I totally believe this.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KungMartin90 View Post
    What you guys don't get is that Sony's strategy is planned months and months ahead of E3. Also, how could they know what the Xbone price would be?

    I totally believe this.
    jphuff eluded to this in an earlier post. making educated guesses about what another companies making or how much it will cost happens on a day to day basis. idk if I'd go as far as saying both companies had spies but whatever. and yes, plans have to be implemented and agreed on in advance, but look at MS, plans can change if u want them to


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  19. #44
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    I recently read a report that every PS4 comes pre-loaded with a game that demos the interactivity between the Dualshock and the camera so the story about removing the camera last minute seems plausible, I mean why include software that noone can use. Now I guess you could theoretically state that its the intention to spur people to buy the camera if they see their is software included with there purchase that they can only use if the spend anther 60 dollars but I feel that they always intended to include the camera. Personally I'm glad they removed it and I hope I can uninstall the data on the hard drive when I get my PS4.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worrywart View Post
    I recently read a report that every PS4 comes pre-loaded with a game that demos the interactivity between the Dualshock and the camera so the story about removing the camera last minute seems plausible, I mean why include software that noone can use. Now I guess you could theoretically state that its the intention to spur people to buy the camera if they see their is software included with there purchase that they can only use if the spend anther 60 dollars but I feel that they always intended to include the camera. Personally I'm glad they removed it and I hope I can uninstall the data on the hard drive when I get my PS4.
    While I'm sure they've considered making the camera mandatory, the software isn't any proof of that. Production probably hasn't even started, so they've surely not installed the software yet. It's just an incentive to buy the camera.

  21. #46
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    There was never a need to have the camera included, so i seriously doubt they considered including it.

    PS4= hardcore gamer console, no need for unnecessary gimmicks forced upon us.

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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuvian View Post
    There was never a need to have the camera included, so i seriously doubt they considered including it.

    PS4= hardcore gamer console, no need for unnecessary gimmicks forced upon us.
    while I agree with most of your statement i think one kinda contradicts itself. you said the ps4=hardcore gamer. I agree and that's the reason I preordered one; however, as being a console for hardcore gamers wouldn't the ability to play ALL types of games and use ALL types of input innovation be a good idea for HARDCORE gamers?


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  23. #48
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    Makes no difference to me. I wasnt going to play the AR games pre-loaded on the console as they are most likely horrible. Plus it saves me money not having the useless camera bundled with the console. If Sony actually integrates the camera in a unique way then I'll buy it later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuhWhitePanda View Post
    Makes no difference to me. I wasnt going to play the AR games pre-loaded on the console as they are most likely horrible. Plus it saves me money not having the useless camera bundled with the console. If Sony actually integrates the camera in a unique way then I'll buy it later.
    yea it doesn't to me either. I didnt want the camera as I'm not a big move player. I was just posing the argument due to the words hardcore gamer.


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  25. #50
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    there's no doubt in my mind that Sony took the cam off at the last minute or at least after the decision had been made to include it with every bundle.

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