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    Sony Denies Removing Camera to Make PS4 Price Competitive With Xbox One


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    I somehow doubt this but I'm glad they opted to do so because I didn't want it. On a side note, Seb from PlayStation lifestyle isn't our Seb is it?




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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    I somehow doubt this but I'm glad they opted to do so because I didn't want it. On a side note, Seb from PlayStation lifestyle isn't our Seb is it?
    Yep thats our Seb. Or at least used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Yep thats our Seb. Or at least used to be.
    Did he found that site?




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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    Did he found that site?
    I have no idea.

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    I could believe that sony did that just to beat out Microsoft. Gotta do what you gotta do, cant blame them for trying to get the upper hand this gen. Plus, I wouldn't have liked the eye being mandatory either. But regardless, like flumbooze said sony's on a pr marathon getting everything they can out of these positive vibes lol. Good for them, payback's a $#@!.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Manning View Post
    To be honest the PS4Eye w/o Move Controllers (Yes, I know there's some features in the DS4 Controller) is very limiting. Putting it out w/o tossing in at least one Motion controller would have been a limiting effort.

    The majority of those who want to pay the extra money for it will be those existing Move controller users (like myself.)

    I think it was a good pricing strategy, and I think they wanted to make sure they didn't come in higher in price than the XB1, which is something they were constantly behind the ball on last generation. But I do believe them when they say they had no idea of what the pricing was going to be on the XB1.

    They didn't make it an integral part/requirement like was made on the XB1, which because of this, has to ship w/ the kinect.

    It's simply a different strategy.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    To be honest the PS4Eye w/o Move Controllers (Yes, I know there's some features in the DS4 Controller) is very limiting. Putting it out w/o tossing in at least one Motion controller would have been a limiting effort.

    The majority of those who want to pay the extra money for it will be those existing Move controller users (like myself.)

    I think it was a good pricing strategy, and I think they wanted to make sure they didn't come in higher in price than the XB1, which is something they were constantly behind the ball on last generation. But I do believe them when they say they had no idea of what the pricing was going to be on the XB1.

    They didn't make it an integral part/requirement like was made on the XB1, which because of this, has to ship w/ the kinect.

    It's simply a different strategy.
    I Believe they didn't know the price but many expected it to be 500 in the US. They can say all they want but like you said if they offer it without those that want it will buy it. No need to drive the price up for many that don't want it or are indifferent about it. I still think this was mostly about pricing strategy. Especially considering the fact that it interacts with the controller.




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    It's doubtful. I'm sure Sony pulled it last minute to outprice Microsoft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    It's doubtful. I'm sure Sony pulled it last minute to outprice Microsoft.
    As Tretton said in the E3 interview (IIRC), massive companies plan crap out months in advance and they have to execute on that. I doubt any last minute plans were made, these are conglomerates, not saturday morning flea market stalls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    As Tretton said in the E3 interview (IIRC), massive companies plan crap out months in advance and they have to execute on that. I doubt any last minute plans were made, these are conglomerates, not saturday morning flea market stalls.
    And how would Sony know what the X1 would cost prior to E3? They found out when we found out. Pricing strategies are not formulated in the matter of a couple of hours between E3 press conferences.

    And as far as Sony knew, MS could have pulled their entire plan for DRM prior to E3 and thrown Sony for a loop. Everything Sony threw out at E3, it without knowledge of what MS had planned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    And how would Sony know what the X1 would cost prior to E3? They found out when we found out. Pricing strategies are not formulated in the matter of a couple of hours between E3 press conferences.

    And as far as Sony knew, MS could have pulled their entire plan for DRM prior to E3 and thrown Sony for a loop. Everything Sony threw out at E3, it without knowledge of what MS had planned.
    Exactly. It's all a bit silly to think that a company would make changes that had been in place for months and months on a whim after the competitors price reveal. Sony said it wasn't bundled because it's about consumer choice.

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    Interesting you should ask about how Sony should know what MS planned as far as cost. Just want to point one thing out. There IS such a thing as "business intelligence." Basically what some people would call spy work. I've worked for a company bidding on government business for example and they would do research and find out how many people a competitor has assigned to a project and what facilities and technologies they are planning on using. If the information wasn't in public findings, they'd make an educated guess but it's amazing how accurate they could be and thus determine ABOUT what it was going to cost a company to do the work and then guess on that companies probable bid.

    Don't kid yourself, electronics companies and others do the same thing to figure out how to price and place their products. So Sony and MS both could easily have figured out about what it was going to cost for each others next gen products. After all, didn't we all know about eh x86 architectures and roughly which GPU's both were going to use for some months now? I guarantee that both companies knew a lot more about the others product that we did! It looks to me like MS either had lousy business intelligence and really got faked out by Sony or they were arrogant and figured it didn't matter based on how well the 360 succeeded. Either way the capability was there and is there for both companies to figure out a LOT of what the other is doing. At this point Sony is simply executing much better, but it's early yet. We'll have to see which or if both launches go smoothly, how the first holiday season and then first year go, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    Interesting you should ask about how Sony should know what MS planned as far as cost. Just want to point one thing out. There IS such a thing as "business intelligence." Basically what some people would call spy work. I've worked for a company bidding on government business for example and they would do research and find out how many people a competitor has assigned to a project and what facilities and technologies they are planning on using. If the information wasn't in public findings, they'd make an educated guess but it's amazing how accurate they could be and thus determine ABOUT what it was going to cost a company to do the work and then guess on that companies probable bid.

    Don't kid yourself, electronics companies and others do the same thing to figure out how to price and place their products. So Sony and MS both could easily have figured out about what it was going to cost for each others next gen products. After all, didn't we all know about eh x86 architectures and roughly which GPU's both were going to use for some months now? I guarantee that both companies knew a lot more about the others product that we did! It looks to me like MS either had lousy business intelligence and really got faked out by Sony or they were arrogant and figured it didn't matter based on how well the 360 succeeded. Either way the capability was there and is there for both companies to figure out a LOT of what the other is doing. At this point Sony is simply executing much better, but it's early yet. We'll have to see which or if both launches go smoothly, how the first holiday season and then first year go, etc.
    While there's some amount of truth to this, there's also a lot of information that's left out when it comes to the final product. Educated guesses and some details on architecture are going to be there. That doesn't give you the pricing agreements negotiated, which are always kept extremely secret by both the Si vendor (AMD) and the OEMs. And this can very on the Si side by a lot. Take an example of a device that sells for $200 in 1000 unit quantities, well negotiation for 250K units per quarter will bring this down below $100. But it really depends on your companies negotiation skills and there real knowledge of it's cost to build (it may be $40 it may be $80 for the same size die and that cost will vary greatly with yield entitlement.)

    So you have a great variability in cost to build for one. And you have another question on revenue strategy. Is it to sell the HW at cost and hope to recoup more investment in royalties/digital sales/etc. or is it going to be focused on getting the money off the console. Wii was the 2nd strategy, PS3 was the 1st strategy, X360 was a bit in the middle.

    Historic trends doesn't necessarily mean things will stay that way. PSOne and PS2 where more of the 2nd strategy while they reversed that trend on PS3 (more out of necessity to avoid totally pricing themselves out of the market.)

    So I still say Sony didn't have any definitive knowledge of pricing on XB1 prior to announcement. They may have had a estimate of COB within $75 at best, but that would only put them at maybe a within $150 range on XB1 - And that doesn't even take into consideration if they decided to ship w/o Kinect which tosses more varience in potential pricing range.

    Also keep in mind you're business intelligence that you're talking about is about bidding on projects, you have an idea of the man-month efforts and possibly materials it will take to do a project, that's actually spec'd with full set of requirements made available so that multiple groups can bid on things.

    I'd have to say industrial espionage is much more limited than you make it sound to be and false information can be provided just as easily as valid information.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost-Rhayne View Post
    As Tretton said in the E3 interview (IIRC), massive companies plan crap out months in advance and they have to execute on that. I doubt any last minute plans were made, these are conglomerates, not saturday morning flea market stalls.

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    Sony's on a PR marathon. Can't blame them.

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    I don't believe they pulled the camera last minute for pricing any more than I believe they were going to restrict used games like MS until they saw all the negativity MS was getting. Would be too hard to change all their documents and things with only a few hours between the MS conference and Sony conference. I think they had good business intelligence that told them what MS was likely to do and they simply planned accordingly. That DOES happen, you know..

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    Okay Sony, we believe you.


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    The damned camera does not account for 100 bucks difference. Well, maybe Kinect 2.0 costs 100 bucks to make, but a dual RGB camera certainly doesn't. Kinect 1 only costs around 56 bucks in 2010, so a dual RGB cam will likely be about 50 bucks (It IS higher resolution than Kinect, so it ends up evening out)

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    I don't think Sony has ever forced a peripheral on their customers have they?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kauldron View Post
    I don't think Sony has ever forced a peripheral on their customers have they?
    Not to my knowledge. Could be wrong.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Kauldron View Post
    I don't think Sony has ever forced a peripheral on their customers have they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    I don't believe they pulled the camera last minute for pricing any more than I believe they were going to restrict used games like MS until they saw all the negativity MS was getting. Would be too hard to change all their documents and things with only a few hours between the MS conference and Sony conference. I think they had good business intelligence that told them what MS was likely to do and they simply planned accordingly. That DOES happen, you know..
    I think you're right. while I could see them pulling it, I really don't think they did. I think they just made a sound business decision and it's paying off and people who aren't ps fans are whining


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kauldron View Post
    I don't think Sony has ever forced a peripheral on their customers have they?
    The original dualshock is all that I can really think of if that counts. Don't think anyone complained about it tho lol
    Last edited by faaeng; 07-06-2013 at 01:18.
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    If they did, by all means

    It means better value for a console that is not " marked with death "

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