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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    MS didn't really, TRY that did they?

    Not being naive, but MS didn't really have much to do with the "push" for HD-DVD. To them, it was only an add-on that allowed HD movie playback, never meant for games.

    Other forces at work, namely HP and a few others (toshiba obviously) made the HD-DVD push. MS gambled that this would be the standard for HD movie format, and lost.

    Blu-Ray ended up being supported by everyone and their mother and Sony was pushing it hard with the PS3. No one liked HD-DVD, so MS dropped the HD-DVD addon after two years and never looked back.
    That's exactly what I said but slightly different. It was a botched option because you could only play movies on it and there's nothing they could've done about that but yet they still did it...to show that they have options.

    On the other hand, they just happened to choose HD-DVD "only" as an option and not "Blu-Ray", in fact, they didn't even give that option after Blu-Ray won the war. Funny right?

    Which is why I mentioned that they also wanted to go against whatever Sony was going for, which is understandable.

    I agree that they weren't really trying to push HD-DVD, they didn't care about it.

    Yes, MS definitely gambled but really, if you are a company as big as MS and had gone with Blu-Ray to begin with...that wouldn't have been a gamble anyway. You're a giant backing another giant...that's sure win. Maybe they had something worked out with Toshiba. Blu-Ray had a better support from the beginning.

    I don't know which format was more liked but I know that people had a lot of issues with the Blu-Ray, due to costs and that it didn't have the VC-1 codec or whatever it was. HD-DVD had better quality in the beginning. It was much cheaper to develop and the discs as well. Honestly, I wish Sony had backed HD-DVD.

    I remember something like where HD-DVD was compatible with DVD when Blu-Ray wasn't...at one point I believe.

    It's really a tug-o-war between the both makers. Sony says physical media is going to stay (I wonder why) and almost ruined themselves last generation gambling on a physical format, MS goes almost completely into digital too far too early and axe their launch year...

    They both have their own agendas.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That's exactly what I said but slightly different. It was a botched option because you could only play movies on it and there's nothing they could've done about that but yet they still did it...to show that they have options.

    On the other hand, they just happened to choose HD-DVD "only" as an option and not "Blu-Ray", in fact, they didn't even give that option after Blu-Ray won the war. Funny right?

    Which is why I mentioned that they also wanted to go against whatever Sony was going for, which is understandable.

    I agree that they weren't really trying to push HD-DVD, they didn't care about it.

    Yes, MS definitely gambled but really, if you are a company as big as MS and had gone with Blu-Ray to begin with...that wouldn't have been a gamble anyway. You're a giant backing another giant...that's sure win. Maybe they had something worked out with Toshiba. Blu-Ray had a better support from the beginning.

    I don't know which format was more liked but I know that people had a lot of issues with the Blu-Ray, due to costs and that it didn't have the VC-1 codec or whatever it was. HD-DVD had better quality in the beginning. It was much cheaper to develop and the discs as well. Honestly, I wish Sony had backed HD-DVD.

    I remember something like where HD-DVD was compatible with DVD when Blu-Ray wasn't...at one point I believe.

    It's really a tug-o-war between the both makers. Sony says physical media is going to stay (I wonder why) and almost ruined themselves last generation gambling on a physical format, MS goes almost completely into digital too far too early and axe their launch year...

    They both have their own agendas.
    all fantastic points just a quick question: I've heard that the only reason blu-ray won over hddvd was because the porn industry backed it. true?



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  3. #53
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    lol maybe i'm not sure, i know there was talks that if they did support blu-ray that it would a quick win. i don't know if they ended up doing that or not...before it won the war.

    i know there was a topic about it where betamax lost due to vhs being supported by the porn industry.

    to my knowledge, what won the war was when one of those huge companies like warner bros and disney stopped backing HD-DVD and signed up with BDA. i think there was another big name but i always forget names.

    I think it was warner bros. it was interesting yet saddening to see Toshiba admit failure...they gave it their all. I have respect for that.

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    IMHO, HD-DVD would have beaten Blu-ray had MS made the 360 drive HD-DVD and not DVD with an optional HD-DVD movie only attachment. Blu-Ray won because the PS3s drive was a Blu-ray drive and because of that more players were in more homes.

    Who actually buys porn disks nowadays? Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    lol maybe i'm not sure, i know there was talks that if they did support blu-ray that it would a quick win. i don't know if they ended up doing that or not...before it won the war.

    i know there was a topic about it where betamax lost due to vhs being supported by the porn industry.

    to my knowledge, what won the war was when one of those huge companies like warner bros and disney stopped backing HD-DVD and signed up with BDA. i think there was another big name but i always forget names.

    I think it was warner bros. it was interesting yet saddening to see Toshiba admit failure...they gave it their all. I have respect for that.
    ah ok well that makes sense for the battle to be won by a big corporation signing with the BDA. I knew about the VHS winning due to that but I wasnt sure about the blu-ray war because I never did read too many articles about that.



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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That's exactly what I said but slightly different. It was a botched option because you could only play movies on it and there's nothing they could've done about that but yet they still did it...to show that they have options.

    On the other hand, they just happened to choose HD-DVD "only" as an option and not "Blu-Ray", in fact, they didn't even give that option after Blu-Ray won the war. Funny right?

    Which is why I mentioned that they also wanted to go against whatever Sony was going for, which is understandable.

    I agree that they weren't really trying to push HD-DVD, they didn't care about it.

    Yes, MS definitely gambled but really, if you are a company as big as MS and had gone with Blu-Ray to begin with...that wouldn't have been a gamble anyway. You're a giant backing another giant...that's sure win. Maybe they had something worked out with Toshiba. Blu-Ray had a better support from the beginning.

    I don't know which format was more liked but I know that people had a lot of issues with the Blu-Ray, due to costs and that it didn't have the VC-1 codec or whatever it was. HD-DVD had better quality in the beginning. It was much cheaper to develop and the discs as well. Honestly, I wish Sony had backed HD-DVD.

    I remember something like where HD-DVD was compatible with DVD when Blu-Ray wasn't...at one point I believe.

    It's really a tug-o-war between the both makers. Sony says physical media is going to stay (I wonder why) and almost ruined themselves last generation gambling on a physical format, MS goes almost completely into digital too far too early and axe their launch year...

    They both have their own agendas.
    BD nor HD-DVD are worth my time. Legacy optical disks have no place in my movie line up. I have gone all digital download.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by faaeng View Post
    IMHO, HD-DVD would have beaten Blu-ray had MS made the 360 drive HD-DVD and not DVD with an optional HD-DVD movie only attachment. Blu-Ray won because the PS3s drive was a Blu-ray drive and because of that more players were in more homes.

    Who actually buys porn disks nowadays? Lol
    they may have helped HD-DVD win but they would've run into the same issues Sony did with costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    BD nor HD-DVD are worth my time. Legacy optical disks have no place in my movie line up. I have gone all digital download.
    I'm neither...I don't have the setup to take advantage of any of that...well i do have 1080p.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    lol maybe i'm not sure, i know there was talks that if they did support blu-ray that it would a quick win. i don't know if they ended up doing that or not...before it won the war.

    i know there was a topic about it where betamax lost due to vhs being supported by the porn industry.

    to my knowledge, what won the war was when one of those huge companies like warner bros and disney stopped backing HD-DVD and signed up with BDA. i think there was another big name but i always forget names.

    I think it was warner bros. it was interesting yet saddening to see Toshiba admit failure...they gave it their all. I have respect for that.
    Yeah, pretty sure Warner bros was the first domino to fall. None of the studios wanted a war, they just wanted a standard for HD. That is why the other studios dropped HD DVD as quickly as they did after WB switched sides.

    For MS's part, I think they strategically lined up against Sony, but I don't think they ever had intentions of standing firmly behind HD DVD.
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  10. #59
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    exactly, could not have put it in better words. MS didn't really care about it but it did seem like a stance. just like Sony has with the physical media and MS with the DD. they are both backing their respective ideas because it is in their best interests and against one another's.

  11. #60
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    Did MS have any additional codecs in the HD-DVD format? Or did MS have strong partnerships with Toshiba (or the founders of HD-DVD) prior to the release of HD-DVD format? Maybe MS was in bed with some of those founders for years?

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    can't say for sure but i doubt it. MS doesn't seem to partner up with anyone...other than for their console (IBM/AMD/Nvidia etc.). i'm not sure if they had any proprietary stuff in HD-DVD and if there was, i sure didn't hear about it. i don't know what hd-dvd would've needed though...other than the codec they already have made for all players out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Did MS have any additional codecs in the HD-DVD format? Or did MS have strong partnerships with Toshiba (or the founders of HD-DVD) prior to the release of HD-DVD format? Maybe MS was in bed with some of those founders for years?
    Well, Toshiba makes Windows laptops, obviously, but so does Sony. I don't think there was any reason for MS to be in bed with the studios so it is anybody's guess. There may have been some licensing incentives for MS. Either way, it isn't like MS jumped on the blu-ray bandwagon after it won. 360 never got a blu-ray player even after HD DVD bit the dust.
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  14. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    360 never got a blu-ray player even after HD DVD bit the dust.
    Well, they said that add-ons devices, especially at that price, never will saturate the market. Surprisingly, they sold 25 million Kinects at a high price (and bundles).

    No matter. I own 3 blu-ray movies, 0 hd-dvd movies, and I haven't bought a DVD in probably 6-7 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    MS didn't really, TRY that did they?

    Not being naive, but MS didn't really have much to do with the "push" for HD-DVD. To them, it was only an add-on that allowed HD movie playback, never meant for games.

    Other forces at work, namely HP and a few others (toshiba obviously) made the HD-DVD push. MS gambled that this would be the standard for HD movie format, and lost.

    Blu-Ray ended up being supported by everyone and their mother and Sony was pushing it hard with the PS3. No one liked HD-DVD, so MS dropped the HD-DVD addon after two years and never looked back.
    I bought the hddvd add on. Smh... what the hell was I thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    I bought the hddvd add on. Smh... what the hell was I thinking.

    Sent from Galaxy S4 on Tapatalk 4 beta.

    I know someone who still uses theirs LMAO

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    Java? Not following the analogy. Isn't Java solely owned by Oracle?
    BR pays Oracle a bucket load in royalties.

    BD-J was one of the main reasons HD-DVD didn't want BR.

    So yes, everyone pays the BRA guys, and then they have to pay Ellison.

    Then he piss's it away and laughs at all of you, while he's out making the Americas Cup look like a ****ing circus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    Well, they said that add-ons devices, especially at that price, never will saturate the market. Surprisingly, they sold 25 million Kinects at a high price (and bundles).

    No matter. I own 3 blu-ray movies, 0 hd-dvd movies, and I haven't bought a DVD in probably 6-7 years.
    so then why do HD-DVD? would it have had a different fate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    BR pays Oracle a bucket load in royalties.

    BD-J was one of the main reasons HD-DVD didn't want BR.

    So yes, everyone pays the BRA guys, and then they have to pay Ellison.

    Then he piss's it away and laughs at all of you, while he's out making the Americas Cup look like a ****ing circus.
    not trying to be a **** I'm just trying to keep this discussion straight. when u said BRA did u mean BRD or am I lost?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    I know someone who still uses theirs LMAO
    I Still have a standard Toshiba HDDVD . I bust out the old format from time to time lol.




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    I seem to remember MS putting quite a bit of coin behind HD-DVD to begin with. They paid for retailer vouchers and all kinds of things. Even some advertising dollars. It was a calculated maneuver to artificially inflate the cost of BluRay diodes because third parties were making them at the time and they were already incredibly expensive without HD-DVD players soaking them up and collecting dust on the shelves the way they did. This had an adverse effect on the PS3 in its first year and, more or less, forced Sony's hand to look at alternative methods of cutting cost in PS3 production including stripping away the PS2 CPU and GPU.

    Make no mistake. MS DID try hard with HD-DVD. Paramount Pictures flip-flopping at the very end was a direct result of perception that the format war was going to be a protracted one. Thankfully, the entire process for creating diodes was re-assessed and they were able to meet production demands for both BluRay and HD-DVD before the HD-DVD boat sank. If I remember correctly, it was TDK that helped make that happen.
    Last edited by Lefein; 07-10-2013 at 04:27.
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    not trying to be a **** I'm just trying to keep this discussion straight. when u said BRA did u mean BRD or am I lost?
    Yea them, although I prefer bra for them.

    Should have been training bra to be honest so friggin immatute was BR when they forced it on everyone.

    Undercooked much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yea them, although I prefer bra for them.

    Should have been training bra to be honest so friggin immatute was BR when they forced it on everyone.

    Undercooked much.
    anecdotal, but, my launch day PS3 plays 3D Blurays just fine. Seemed well-done to me.
    Who would have thought building a solid product that serves your customer's needs would beat out money, marketing, hype, and greed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yea them, although I prefer bra for them.

    Should have been training bra to be honest so friggin immatute was BR when they forced it on everyone.

    Undercooked much.
    oh ok well I wasn't sure. well I guess they did tht to make the money seeing as blue ray was and is a bit more expensive



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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    anecdotal, but, my launch day PS3 plays 3D Blurays just fine. Seemed well-done to me.
    Its called flood with hardware patch later and you know it lef. Java BR was immature compared to what HD-DVD could do day one.

    Ironically if they had just settled in hd-dvd's software and br's hardware the consumer would have benefited most.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    BR pays Oracle a bucket load in royalties.

    BD-J was one of the main reasons HD-DVD didn't want BR.

    So yes, everyone pays the BRA guys, and then they have to pay Ellison.

    Then he piss's it away and laughs at all of you, while he's out making the Americas Cup look like a ****ing circus.
    Ah. Sucks Ellison gets even a penny from BR. Guy is a douche.
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