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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    Why would they likely ship with more RAM than the console itself? Seems counterproductive to me.
    They use it to debug. You need a place to store all your tracking and tracing of numbers, the developer environment (visual studio) etc etc.
    Last edited by mynd; 07-13-2013 at 05:14.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    They use it to debug. You need a place to store all you tracking and tracing of numbers, the developer environment (visual studio) etc etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Debugging and other tasks take up more memory.
    Ah, okay.
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterMunky View Post
    Ah, okay.
    Take a look here..

    http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/05/x...reduced-price/
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Cool, thx. :]
    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    original xbox didn't sell. So they had to try a different approach, which turned out to be profitable/successful.

    The X1 is simply a continuation of what the 360 is doing/did.
    With Microsoft focused on core gaming so much these past 2 gens, I am not surprised they continue to look at all aspects of performance enhancements. Granted, both next gen consoles are trying to be "all in one" machines, it seems MS has all of the bases covered. The best games, rockin' performance, most all in one features. Which each performance improvement, they continue to gain more and more developer support. We are talking a gaming library that could probably double the Xbox 360's already staggering untouched gaming library.

    Looking great.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    What makes you think it's bloated?
    I was wondering the same thing. Microsoft hasn't made mention of size of the OS, nor have they said if their OS is bloated, efficient or inefficient. It's fun watching numbers and efficiency status being pulled out of thin air though.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    With Microsoft focused on core gaming so much these past 2 gens, I am not surprised they continue to look at all aspects of performance enhancements. Granted, both next gen consoles are trying to be "all in one" machines, it seems MS has all of the bases covered. The best games, rockin' performance, most all in one features. Which each performance improvement, they continue to gain more and more developer support. We are talking a gaming library that could probably double the Xbox 360's already staggering untouched gaming library.

    Looking great.



    I was wondering the same thing. Microsoft hasn't made mention of size of the OS, nor have they said if their OS is bloated, efficient or inefficient. It's fun watching numbers and efficiency status being pulled out of thin air though.
    Sure, but I don't see any difference in speculating on the size of the OS and the size and quality of the X1's library in the future. It might be huge. Might be not so huge. May have "best" of everything. May not. Might have a bloated OS. Might not. Who knows?
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    Sure, but I don't see any difference in speculating on the size of the OS and the size and quality of the X1's library in the future. It might be huge. Might be not so huge. May have "best" of everything. May not. Might have a bloated OS. Might not. Who knows?
    well that's the whole point of speculation I suppose Larry. so the fanboys can say this is gonna be better because of this this and this when they don't have any facts of it. speculation is speculation. can be kinda fun to watch the Internet turf war tho eh? lol



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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    For 3 OS's. What makes you think that it is possible to achieve that level of capability and performance and use less ram? AFAIKT their OD's are as efficient as can be. Not you can say that they should have gone with a more limited OS like on the PS4 to have more free ram, but I don't see any evidence that suggest their current implementation is less efficient than is currently feasible/possible.
    The fact that they HAVE 3 OS's itself means the system will be inherently less efficient than a single OS because you are introducing dependency between the OS's (presumably) and with dependence there are more chances of things going wrong/less efficiently. Furthermore twice the RAM usage of a fully fledged Desktop OS without any "new" features IS called being bloated.

    X1 dev reddit AMA
    Q: Do you know anything about the rumor that Microsoft is upping the clock speed on the retail version? If you can't answer that, do you think that the Xbox One is at disadvantage with it's current specs compared to the PS4?

    A: Can't comment on the rumor. The facts are on paper, the PS4 has better specs and the most you can debate is by how much. What I can tell you is I have played Forza, Killer instinct, and Ryse on the Xbox One. They look as good as the games I play on a high end PC. Ryse reminded me of darksiders II.
    Last edited by Itachi; 07-13-2013 at 21:01.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    It isn't too late. One of my past jobs, we designed and manufactured a product to be sold. The day it arrived in the warehouse, we went out and retrofitted all of the stock to modify the unit.

    MS hasn't SHIPPED any of these. Upping to 12GB ram, easy. Upping clock? Easy for them.

    I think though the problem will be, they have committed to the 499.00 launch price. Any updates they do to the hardware, will have to be at a loss. It would be suicide for them to come back and say "oh, hey we wanted more powah, so you give us more money"

    As for the OS and memory discussion... from the last reports, non fanboy based, the OS will use just under 1GB of RAM for all three of the mini OS's running in the XB1.. leaving 7GB free for games. Now, the fanboy articles say 3GB or 2GB... so I guess we will just have to see when they hit.
    on what basis are those fanboys articles lol. because they don't align with your views?

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    on what basis are those fanboys articles lol. because they don't align with your views?
    Because there is no basis for them other than fanboys plucking an arbitrary number out of the air and running with it.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  11. #161
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    The 3GB figure AFAIK comes from the vgleaks articles. By the way, that figure has been vetted by devs elsewhere, like on Neogaf and B3D.


  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Because there is no basis for them other than fanboys plucking an arbitrary number out of the air and running with it.
    you're misunderstand what i'm saying. nothing is confirmed yet so why is one fanboyish and the other isn't? Is it based on which one is good news and which one isn't? what is the basis there?

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    The 3GB figure AFAIK comes from the vgleaks articles. By the way, that figure has been vetted by devs elsewhere, like on Neogaf and B3D.
    You will find this isn't the actual "size of the o/s", just what MS has decided the Hyper-V is to give it.
    The great thing about running hyper-v is they can change those CPU/resources allocation at any stage.
    I wouldn't at all be surprised 3 years from now if the O/S is doing the same thing in half the allocated space. And because the memory is visualized, old game may will actually benefit.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You will find this isn't the actual "size of the o/s", just what MS has decided the Hyper-V is to give it.
    The great thing about running hyper-v is they can change those CPU/resources allocation at any stage.
    I wouldn't at all be surprised 3 years from now if the O/S is doing the same thing in half the allocated space. And because the memory is visualized, old game may will actually benefit.
    those old games wouldn't benefit anything from the memory gain unless they patched the game, which is highly unlikely. what you speak of is how PC development works.

  15. #165
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  17. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You will find this isn't the actual "size of the o/s", just what MS has decided the Hyper-V is to give it.
    The great thing about running hyper-v is they can change those CPU/resources allocation at any stage.
    I wouldn't at all be surprised 3 years from now if the O/S is doing the same thing in half the allocated space. And because the memory is visualized, old game may will actually benefit.
    Trimming the fat from console OS's is nothing new, Sony did this repeatedly throughout the PS3 lifecycle with their lolcrazy tier PS OS.

    I understand what (I think?) you're saying, in that simply because the OS reserves X doesn't mean its actually using that much.


  18. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    those old games wouldn't benefit anything from the memory gain unless they patched the game, which is highly unlikely. what you speak of is how PC development works.
    Your forgetting they areusing all virtual addressing on the Xbox one.
    And yes its the way PC's work, its also the way Xbox One work can work it they are using virtual addressing for their caches, there isn't much to stop them from making use of it. It will just mean some of the stuff that was on the HDD will now be actually in memory. I don't think its going to work on critical stuff, that going to be ring fenced any way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Trimming the fat from console OS's is nothing new, Sony did this repeatedly throughout the PS3 lifecycle with their lolcrazy tier PS OS.

    I understand what (I think?) you're saying, in that simply because the OS reserves X doesn't mean its actually using that much.
    Correct.

    I use Hyper-V at work and throw 4 gb at each of my 22 virtual servers. But I can change that at any time, and one of them certainly doesn't use that memory fully.
    Last edited by mynd; 07-14-2013 at 02:37.
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  19. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Your forgetting they areusing all virtual addressing on the Xbox one.
    And yes its the way PC's work, its also the way Xbox One work can work it they are using virtual addressing for their caches, there isn't much to stop them from making use of it. It will just mean some of the stuff that was on the HDD will now be actually in memory. I don't think its going to work on critical stuff, that going to be ring fenced any way.
    so by benefit, you mean more like loading and stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so by benefit, you mean more like loading and stuff.
    Yeah, your unlikely to actually notice the difference, maybe fasting loading if that.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  21. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Your forgetting they areusing all virtual addressing on the Xbox one.
    And yes its the way PC's work, its also the way Xbox One work can work it they are using virtual addressing for their caches, there isn't much to stop them from making use of it. It will just mean some of the stuff that was on the HDD will now be actually in memory. I don't think its going to work on critical stuff, that going to be ring fenced any way.




    Correct.

    I use Hyper-V at work and throw 4 gb at each of my 22 virtual servers. But I can change that at any time, and one of them certainly doesn't use that memory fully.
    Off topic but what kind of work do you do mynd? I know you are very educated in tech, so just curious.




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  22. #171
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    He's an Indie game dev.


  23. #172
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    hasbeen*cough*!

    lol jk. or am i?

  24. #173
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    Indie game developer, and the real job that pays the bill, I'm an IT technician. Used to work for corporates, hated it, took a year of concentrate on our indie work, now work for a school and love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    hasbeen*cough*!

    lol jk. or am i?
    If you'd asked me a year ago I would have said has been, I haven't had much time, being a solo parent and all for the last year.

    But I have to say as off late, with the wife back,for the first time in a long time, Visual Studio and Maya are both loaded up and being used.
    Last edited by mynd; 07-14-2013 at 06:25.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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  26. #174
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    Wrong thread
    Last edited by mynd; 07-14-2013 at 07:11.
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  27. #175
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    Going to 12GB RAM now is not cost prohibitive, and it can be done in dual channel just fine, but, your going to have to add 50% new memory line traces to the APU and potentially have to redesign the APU package AND the Motherboard.
    Going to 16GB would not require a redesign just sourcing chips larger than I think exist at this time.

    All of that redesign and validation at this late in the game, i just don't see it.
    If the REALLY need the RAM, they can suspend Win8 to the HDD as a saved state file until it needs reloading. That's not a HUGE deal and hard to notice if streamed in and out while loading operations are going on on a game.

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