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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mankind View Post
    And yours uses direct x 69
    Or would that be 'Direct X 24x7.69?'

    All you have to decide is what to do with the time give to you....
    http://www.woodchuckproductions.net

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    They don't need DX for that. I still think there is a misunderstanding here about them actually using it. It makes no sense if they say they are achieving what DX already does.
    I'm positive you are correct. Microsoft isn't all the sudden gonna allow Sony to use DX. It's a Microsoft API. It's exactly what you said, they are saying that all the features found in DX 11.1+ they have in their API, and they've improved upon it. Their API is OpenGL + OpenCL at the base. They have their PSSL\PSGL in there. This is part of the well known fact that PS4's APIs are currently in a much more mature state than Xbone's. So, DX 11.2 is basically playing catchup.

    DX 11.2 using the "Tiled Resources" is taking advantage of the GCN of the 28nm APUs that Xbone and PS4 are using. These APUs basically allow a hardware version of idtech's megatextures, which older articles showed that PS4 already had working in its API from long before DX 11.2 was announced. So, they'll be doing it through their version of OpenGL\OpenCL.

  3. #53
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    I think OpenGL could have been a better choice, but it's good to see that they went with DirectX this time around. Porting between the two will be easy-peasy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    I'm positive you are correct. Microsoft isn't all the sudden gonna allow Sony to use DX. It's a Microsoft API. It's exactly what you said, they are saying that all the features found in DX 11.1+ they have in their API, and they've improved upon it. Their API is OpenGL + OpenCL at the base. They have their PSSL\PSGL in there. This is part of the well known fact that PS4's APIs are currently in a much more mature state than Xbone's. So, DX 11.2 is basically playing catchup.
    That would actually be breaking fair licensing laws. And besides, this is good for Microsoft too. Microsoft will get paid royalties now that Playstation uses DirectX; so it is a win-win for both.
    Last edited by Foraeli; 07-15-2013 at 10:16.

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  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    That would actually be breaking fair licensing laws. And besides, this is good for Microsoft too. Microsoft will get paid royalties now that Playstation uses DirectX; so it is a win-win for both.
    It wouldn't be breaking any such laws. It's the way it's always worked, all past and current non-Microsoft consoles don't use DirectX(PS3, Wii, Wii-U, PS4). Everywhere else other than that 1 spot that you look indicates that Sony is not using DirectX, it is actually using OpenGL\OpenCL. It was just a poor choice of wording they used to explain that they were actually pulling forward past DirectX features with their API.

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    Oh, and for anyone still thinking PS4 can directly use DirectX, below is a quote taken from How The Crew was ported to Playstation.

    "A more crucial issue is that, while the PS4 toolchain is designed to be familiar to those working on PC, the new Sony hardware doesn't use the DirectX API, so Sony has supplied two of their own.
    "The graphics APIs are brand new - they don't have any legacy baggage, so they're quite clean, well thought-out and match the hardware really well," says Reflections' expert programmer Simon O'Connor."

    So, hopefully that ends that unnecessary debate.

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    Oh, and for anyone still thinking PS4 can directly use DirectX, below is a quote taken from How The Crew was ported to Playstation.

    "A more crucial issue is that, while the PS4 toolchain is designed to be familiar to those working on PC, the new Sony hardware doesn't use the DirectX API, so Sony has supplied two of their own.
    "The graphics APIs are brand new - they don't have any legacy baggage, so they're quite clean, well thought-out and match the hardware really well," says Reflections' expert programmer Simon O'Connor."

    So, hopefully that ends that unnecessary debate.
    I was quite sure sony wasn't gonna be using DX11. It just makes no sense and MS probably wouldn't allow it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I was quite sure sony wasn't gonna be using DX11. It just makes no sense and MS probably wouldn't allow it.
    Taken from the same place:

    "Sony has made a big deal about the accessibility of the PS4 hardware, and a key element of that would be the quality of the toolchain - the series of programs used to create compiled code. For the PS4 developers, the use of the established Visual Studio environment proves to be a key benefit, and the extent to which Sony has acknowledged and supported cross-platform game-makers is self-evident. There are even options within Sony's compiler specifically added in order to increase compatibility with the Microsoft counterpart used in compiling DirectX 11 games."

    Now, this is almost as good as them being able to use DX11. So, any devs porting PC games 'n such that use DX11, it should be fairly easy for them to compile over to PS4's API, which seems to be more flexible and currently more mature than DX11 anyways. So, it's a win win for PS4 basically.

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  10. #58
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    And just to beat a dead horse;

    Here's a few pieces of info explaining what's wrong with DirectX and how its holding back and limiting gaming in general. It is easier to use and port between platforms as a high level API, but robs you of tons of performance by not getting anywhere near the full bulk of the juice out of the hardware.

    "Another thing PS4 has going for it that is rarely discussed is more efficient api. This allows developers to write more efficient code. It will take time though because developers have to learn the tools. But expect 1st party PS4 games to look much better as the generation progresses. Xbox games will get better looking too, but on the software side at least they do not have as much room to improve as PS4 does, because DirectX is fundamentally a high level API with some low level extensions added on." ~ picklespickles - IGN Forum

    This article talks about developers wanting the API to go away.

    "The ps4's opengl based API like PS2's API & PS3's libGCM offers much more low level access to the hardware without the need to go through nearly as many abstraction layers as DirectX does. However due to its unfamiliarity it will generally not be the lead API used to design 3rd party games, and it will take time for developers to take advantage of the performance benefits it offers over DirextX. Having learnt from PS3, Sony is also offering a highlevel wrapper giving developers easier tools to work with" ~ picklespickles - IGN Forum

    Source for the 2 PS4 API info.

  11. #59
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    DirectX is lagging behind these days, kinda playing catch up up until 11.2
    The API PS4 uses is more inline with OpenGL so DX11.2 isn't needed except for some exclusive features which I believe OpenGL and PSL support anyway in the future.

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    Last edited by TGO; 07-22-2013 at 11:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    DirectX is lagging behind these days, kinda playing catch up up until 11.2
    The API PS4 uses is more inline with OpenGL so DX11.2 isn't needed except for some exclusive features which I believe OpenGL and PSL support anyway in the future.

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    If you're talking about DX11.2's "Tiled Resources", it is their way of handling John Carmack style MegaTextures. Partially Resident Textures is based on John Carmack's MegaTextures, and the ability to use it has been build into the new AMD hardware, there was an article mentioning PS4 being able to do this long before DX11.2 was ever announced. So, unless you're talking about other DX11.2 features, that is not one that Xbone's API will hold over PS4's API, it's just DX11.2 playing catchup.

  13. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    If you're talking about DX11.2's "Tiled Resources", it is their way of handling John Carmack style MegaTextures. Partially Resident Textures is based on John Carmack's MegaTextures, and the ability to use it has been build into the new AMD hardware, there was an article mentioning PS4 being able to do this long before DX11.2 was ever announced. So, unless you're talking about other DX11.2 features, that is not one that Xbone's API will hold over PS4's API, it's just DX11.2 playing catchup.
    I know that, I just said that do I wouldn't get jumped on by MS fans lol

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    Guess that ends that.

  15. #63
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    Does anyone know when the last time Microsoft updated its license for Direct X???? Cause if it has lapsed it wouldnt matter how much Microsoft cried about someone other then them using it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    Does anyone know when the last time Microsoft updated its license for Direct X???? Cause if it has lapsed it wouldnt matter how much Microsoft cried about someone other then them using it.
    Microsoft created DirectX, they don't have to update any license for themselves to use it. They have licensing rules for others that use it though.

    "This license applies to the following files; they are referred to below as
    “Distributable Code”:

    • d3dx9_*.dll
    • DbgHelp.dll
    • mozcrt19.dll
    • mozcpp19.dll

    Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation.

    The Distributable Code may be used and distributed only if you comply with the
    following terms:
    • You may use, copy, and distribute the Distributable Code only as part of
    this product.
    • You may not use the Distributable Code on a platform other than Windows.
    • You may not alter any copyright, trademark or patent notice in the
    Distributable Code.
    • You may not modify or distribute the source code of any Distributable Code
    so that any part of the source code becomes subject to the MPL or any other
    copyleft license.
    • You must comply with any technical limitations in the Distributable Code
    that only allow you to use it in certain ways.
    • You must comply with all domestic and international export laws and
    regulations that apply to the Distributable Code."

  17. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    Microsoft created DirectX, they don't have to update any license for themselves to use it. They have licensing rules for others that use it though.

    "This license applies to the following files; they are referred to below as
    “Distributable Code”:

    • d3dx9_*.dll
    • DbgHelp.dll
    • mozcrt19.dll
    • mozcpp19.dll

    Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation.

    The Distributable Code may be used and distributed only if you comply with the
    following terms:
    • You may use, copy, and distribute the Distributable Code only as part of
    this product.
    • You may not use the Distributable Code on a platform other than Windows.
    • You may not alter any copyright, trademark or patent notice in the
    Distributable Code.
    • You may not modify or distribute the source code of any Distributable Code
    so that any part of the source code becomes subject to the MPL or any other
    copyleft license.
    • You must comply with any technical limitations in the Distributable Code
    that only allow you to use it in certain ways.
    • You must comply with all domestic and international export laws and
    regulations that apply to the Distributable Code."
    All copyrights must be updated annually....

  18. #66
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    Well, you can bet that they will never miss that update. I'm pretty sure they have that all setup automatically. It's silly to think they would not always have the copyright up-to-date, and not even worth wondering about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    Well, you can bet that they will never miss that update. I'm pretty sure they have that all setup automatically. It's silly to think they would not always have the copyright up-to-date, and not even worth wondering about.
    Depends on if they feel it is worth the resources...If they are working on a newer version they might not care if the older lapses. Any way it makes little difference seeing as Sony ended up with the license to use it.

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    Well, in February it was rumored they were phasing out DirectX and XNA. They ended up letting go of XNA, but had no such plans for DirectX.

    "Microsoft is actively investing in DirectX as the unified graphics foundation for all of our platforms, including Windows, Xbox 360, and Windows Phone," reads a statement. "DirectX is evolving and will continue to evolve; saying otherwise was incorrect. We are actively innovating and evolving DirectX and it will continue to be the world's leading low-level high performance interface for gaming and graphics across Microsoft platforms." ~ Source

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