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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    This 90nm/28nm thing would hold true if the PS4 was no more powerful than the PS3. This is why all this talk of the Wii U and smartphones existing doesn't mean a thing. The Wii U and smartphones can be smaller than the PS4 because they are a ton weaker.
    Smaller die size=smaller transistors
    smaller transistors=use less voltage to switch.
    using less voltage to switch=less heat

    It _does_ make a difference. Granted it also depends on how many of those little switches are packed into the chip.

    Also you seemingly missed the big glaring point in my post: There were TWO chips in the PS3 launch model to cool, not ONE like in the PS4. This simple fact is why your talk of it being smaller creating more of a cooling task doesn't mean a thing. Has nothing to do with how powerful the hardware is...

    And you somehow think you're the only intelligent person on the board with the amazing ability to read and comprehend?

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  3. #152
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    Mark Cerny: They know how to design PS4 so it wont overheat

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    "The biggest adversary in our life is ourselves. We are what we are, in a sense, because of the dominating thoughts we allow to gather in our head. All concepts of self-improvement, all actions and paths we take, relate solely to our abstract image of ourselves. Life is limited only by how we really see ourselves and feel about our being. A great deal of pure self-knowledge and inner understanding allows us to lay an all-important foundation for the structure of our life from which we can perceive and take the right avenues.

  4. #153
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    yea see now I would've said all that if I was on that guys level lol. sadly, I'm not. fml



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  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    Regardless of what you have or haven't said, or meant, or meant to say or said meaning....

    Here's the thing. Smaller isn't necessarily more of a risk. The best way to design a product is with efficiency, meaning not bigger than it has to be, etc. I believe the APU is fabricated using a 28nm process. This is way smaller/thinner than the current PS3 slim (again if I recall correctly). The great thing about technology is that as it advances, those advances not only bring higher power, but generally less power consumption and heat. So it's not really surprising that a device today can have 5x or so the power of a device 6 years old, but yet consume less electricity and generate less heat.

    I really don't think that either the Xbox One or PS4 are likely to run into overheating issues, at least in their first 1-3 years. Unless one company or the other COMPLETELY screwed the pooch engineering wise or didn't model airflow and heat exchange correctly, I'm not too worried. After all, look at things like our phones and tablets today. Running quad processors and graphic processors and yet they're fine in our pockets. Now the PS4 is more powerful than your iPhone, but not completely out of the ballpark. If you've played some of the new Retina display iPad games, you've seen what I mean.

    So bottom line, yeah there's a risk, but I don't think it's much of one and in the end, we'll have to wait till September or November to start finding out.

    Personally I think it's much funnier to hear people talking about how the Xbox One MUST be quieter than the PS4 due to it's larger fan and so that's why they're getting one because they can't stand noise. Yet those same folk have 360's which- forget about a little noise!- sound like a frikkin' jet airplane. I just got one of the newest 360's to play Halo and then trade back in. I was ASTOUNDED at the noise. Sounds like some of the older Dell towers we have at work when the fans are going out! Still didn't stop me from enjoying the game but definitely annoying.

    If either console has some noise that's to be expected. I expect them to sound basically like DVD/Blu-ray players. As long as they're in that range, no big deal.
    The size of the console's internal displacement of the air is the biggest determinant factor of what the operating temperatures will and what kind of hardware you can put in it. Smaller is definitely always more of a risk, and it either forces the cooling solution to be larger or it forces the hardware to be under-powered. In the case of using a bigger cooling solution, it forces engineers to work extra hard to compensate and find a way to get the hot air out of the case faster and better. With a bigger case, they can either build a more powerful system or better control the operating temperature.

    And knowing that a device today can have 5x or so the power of a device 6 years old is not saying anything at all. All it says is that we can manufacture hardware somewhat more powerful than said old hardware using modern manufacturing processes like 28nm and have it run very cool. This would not be a problem if the PS4 was just aiming to be a PS3.5. But given that the PS4 is a whomping 8x more powerful than the PS3 and in a box about half the size. It means that the PS4 is going to have A LOT more heating problems in comparison to the PS3 than said modern cell phone in comparison to said cell phone device 6 years old. Not to say the PS4 will have more heating problems than the PS3, but heating problems will definitely be more of a problem for the home console than the said cell phones.

    The size of the case has the biggest impact on the operating temperatures of the case. It's like having a bunch of people working out in a small room; it's cramped and gets hot in there really quickly even with all the fans blowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rekmon View Post
    Smaller die size=smaller transistors
    smaller transistors=use less voltage to switch.
    using less voltage to switch=less heat

    It _does_ make a difference. Granted it also depends on how many of those little switches are packed into the chip.

    Also you seemingly missed the big glaring point in my post: There were TWO chips in the PS3 launch model to cool, not ONE like in the PS4. This simple fact is why your talk of it being smaller creating more of a cooling task doesn't mean a thing. Has nothing to do with how powerful the hardware is...

    And you somehow think you're the only intelligent person on the board with the amazing ability to read and comprehend?
    That is wrong. Smaller die size does not mean smaller transistors and smaller transistors does not mean the die will generate less heat.
    Last edited by Foraeli; 07-14-2013 at 23:42.

  6. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post


    That is wrong. Smaller die size does not mean smaller transistors and smaller transistors does not mean the die will generate less heat.
    Uh...yeah it does. That's why when cpu's go through die shrinks they end up putting out less heat and drawing less power. Given equal transistor counts the smaller fab will put out less heat and use less power.

    And "smaller die size" means exactly that: smaller transistors in the die, not an actual smaller chip.

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  8. #156
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    Dat 5 billion transistors

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    Last edited by YoungMullah88; 07-15-2013 at 01:52.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    That is wrong. Smaller die size does not mean smaller transistors and smaller transistors does not mean the die will generate less heat.

    Wow...just..wow. By that logic, PS3 slim would have generate the same heat as first gen PS3.

    PS Vita might also be a boiling hot since it shared the same size as the PSP.

    Excuse me while I'll go flying in my ROLFCOPTER.

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  11. #158
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    Excuse me. The funny lols and pictures thread is over yonder.


    The first computers used big valves 2000 or more of them used 8KW of electricity and took up an entire room.

    Todays computers use tiny tiny wee microscopic transistors and fit in a small box and use maybe 200W maximum and do not generate anywhere near as much heat.

    http://youtu.be/EdxBO9jfU8k?t=4m13s
    Last edited by keefy; 07-15-2013 at 00:57.

  12. #159
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    The Xbox 360 and PS3 were both rated 200W max. So if we assume 200W is also the maximum output as you say, then that means that the console definitely too small to properly keep the heat under control without the worry of overheating.

    That aside, CPU and GPU dies have gotten quite a bit bigger since 2005 and are generating more heat than ever before. And while Sony and Microsoft have both opted for lower end parts than usual, it's still unsafe to just make a box that small. Microsoft had the right idea by giving us a big box to avoid the previous RROD fiasco. The only plus side that I can see for the PS4 is that they will be able make much smaller the slim versions of the console down the line given that the console chassis will be smaller than the Xbox One chassis.

  13. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by radgamer420 View Post
    Thats why I put him on ignore a long time ago. But people keep quoting him. lol
    haha funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    The Xbox 360 and PS3 were both rated 200W max.
    That is incorrect. PS3 was rated at 380W.
    Last edited by Omar; 07-15-2013 at 02:18.

  14. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    haha funny.
    Agreed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    silly facepalm.gif

    Falling back on silly gifs does little to back your argument. That's usually the last resort of people who realize they don't have a leg to stand on.

    Going back and forth on die shrinks and transistor counts is pointless. You're still ignoring the simple important fact that there is only one chip in the PS4 to cool (SoC) compared to the PS3/360. The size of the system is not indicative of how effective the cooling will be. The sources of heat and the method of cooling is though.

    As to why the XBO is so much larger: They're using a typical fan/HSF setup while the PS4 is using a directed blower type system. The XBO will likely be a bit quieter than the PS4, but not necessarily more effective.
    Last edited by Rekmon; 07-15-2013 at 02:40. Reason: Removed gif quote at mods behest.

  16. #163
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    Please do not use pictures as a response. I cleaned up the few posts that were pictures only.

  17. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekmon View Post
    Falling back on silly gifs does little to back your argument. That's usually the last resort of people who realize they don't have a leg to stand on.
    I'm don't care to argue anymore. It's a waste. All you people ever do is chase me around for actually knowing what I talk about. Posts like the one below really show just how little people here know and how far they are willing to go to just make up one lie after another in hopes that the other isn't smart enough to see right through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rekmon View Post
    Uh...yeah it does. That's why when cpu's go through die shrinks they end up putting out less heat and drawing less power. Given equal transistor counts the smaller fab will put out less heat and use less power.

    And "smaller die size" means exactly that: smaller transistors in the die, not an actual smaller chip.
    Argue with someone else. I already know that everything I have said is perfectly true, and there is no need for me to feed all the hungry mouths attacking anyone who doesn't worship Sony.

  18. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I'm don't care to argue anymore. It's a waste. All you people ever do is chase me around for actually knowing what I talk about. Posts like the one below really show just how little people here know and how far they are willing to go to just make up one lie after another in hopes that the other isn't smart enough to see right through.



    Argue with someone else. I already know that everything I have said is perfectly true, and there is no need for me to feed all the hungry mouths attacking anyone who doesn't worship Sony.
    Oh of course, don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's a shame your superior intelligence and knowledge of the subject couldn't enlighten us.

    BTW: I don't 'follow' you around, never even seen your name here before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekmon View Post
    Oh of course, don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's a shame your superior intelligence and knowledge of the subject couldn't enlighten us.

    BTW: I don't 'follow' you around, never even seen your name here before.
    It's your fault. You're incorrigible.

  20. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    That aside, CPU and GPU dies have gotten quite a bit bigger since 2005 and are generating more heat than ever before. And while Sony and Microsoft have both opted for lower end parts than usual, it's still unsafe to just make a box that small. Microsoft had the right idea by giving us a big box to avoid the previous RROD fiasco. The only plus side that I can see for the PS4 is that they will be able make much smaller the slim versions of the console down the line given that the console chassis will be smaller than the Xbox One chassis.
    Sony has more experience in the hardware arena than Microsoft. That's probably part of the reason the box is so much smaller, even though it's holding more raw power in it. The airflow design on both consoles seem more than adequate enough to handle and expel the heat of these very efficient, less heat producing 28nm APUs. You would have to know much more detailed info about the arrangement of parts and heat output of all the hardware internals to be able to say, "it's still unsafe to just make a box that small."

  21. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by foraeli View Post
    i'm don't care to argue anymore. It's a waste. All you people ever do is chase me around for actually knowing what i talk about. Posts like the one below really show just how little people here know and how far they are willing to go to just make up one lie after another in hopes that the other isn't smart enough to see right through.



    Argue with someone else. I already know that everything i have said is perfectly true, and there is no need for me to feed all the hungry mouths attacking anyone who doesn't worship sony.
    what do you mean, you people!?!?
    :d



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  22. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    Sony has more experience in the hardware arena than Microsoft. That's probably part of the reason the box is so much smaller, even though it's holding more raw power in it. The airflow design on both consoles seem more than adequate enough to handle and expel the heat of these very efficient, less heat producing 28nm APUs. You would have to know much more detailed info about the arrangement of parts and heat output of all the hardware internals to be able to say, "it's still unsafe to just make a box that small."
    Also, the PS4 does not use a power brick, while the Xbone, despite its size, still require one. Just goes to show good Sony engineers with electronics.

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  24. #170
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    Either this guy is sitting back laughing at baiting you all or hes really living an illusion over what he thinks he knows.

    Its like trying to win an argument with a woman and we all know how that goes.

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  26. #171
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    ok so i'm not crazy...i thought i was the only one that was getting baited

    i wonder how many people he has under his ignore list including me now and how many have him on ignore...i don't have anyone. defeats the purpose of being in a discussion forum. battle it out mofo!

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    I am late to this conversation, but aren't there laptops with more power than the X1 and PS4? I don't know. Just asking.
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  29. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    It's your fault. You're incorrigible.
    I accept no culpability for your ineptitude. And pushing the fault on me while you continue to willfully sidestep the fact that it's a blower style setup with one less chip to cool, and thus making a smaller package viable, is not an acceptable response.

    Glad I don't take that attitude with my children

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    I am late to this conversation, but aren't there laptops with more power than the X1 and PS4? I don't know. Just asking.
    don't think so. maybe in some specs but as far as video cards...possibly but i don't remember seeing anything amazing while i looked for one a few months back. also the actual output performance would not nearly be as good as them.

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    Its smaller because SONY probably owns 101 exclusive hardware patents from over the years. They have made almost everything there is in electronics.

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