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    The Switch From Cell Tech

    I'm putting this in this forum because of the ps4 going to the x86 and leaving CELL.

    I'm trying to absorb all the information you guys throw around on a daily basis lol. my question is this, why was the cell technology dropped? I know it was hard for devs to code for but specifically, WHY was it so? everything I've been reading on the Internet says the cell was extremely good technology, some of it even being adapted from supercomputers(older ones I'm assuming). was it the cost to produce for games for cell that did it in? or something else?
    thanks in advance for the info



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    The Cell could process a ton of data with its architecture which consisted of one primary processor called the PPU and 6 processor units called SPEs. The problem was the offloading of smaller programs to the SPEs was very difficult. I actually attempted some Cell programming in grad school. The difficulty I found was that once I loaded a program to the SPE it was nearly impossible to debug. So it was great that I could create a ton of small programs to handle tasks, but coordinating them was a pain in the ass. So I can't even begin to imagine how devs are able to do what they do with the Cell. Oh....wait....yeah, I do. They are smarter than me.

    I may be saying some of this wrong. I graduated from grad school in 2008 so I'm pulling this from my not so good memory.
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  3. #3
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    I'm glad they are no longer using the Cell Broadband Engine. It was terrible for gaming from the get-go and way to difficult to work with. As the saying goes: No one wants to solve a puzzle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I'm glad they are no longer using the Cell Broadband Engine. It was terrible for gaming from the get-go and way to difficult to work with. As the saying goes: No one wants to solve a puzzle
    Naughty dog say $#@! you

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by T0PGUN View Post
    Naughty dog say $#@! you

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    lol. Safe to say ND mastered the Cell like no other dev.
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    lol. Safe to say ND mastered the Cell like no other dev.
    2/4 times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    2/4 times.
    4/4
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    4/4
    Really? Uncharted 1 was good but $#@! compared to 2 and was much better games on the market at the time, Uncharted 3 was good but $#@! compared to 2 which felt a big let down as everyone expected it to be better than 2.

    2/4

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    The move away from cell is a good thing, primarily for simplicity purposes.

    You can have all the power in the world, but if no one knows how to use it, its meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Really? Uncharted 1 was good but $#@! compared to 2 and was much better games on the market at the time, Uncharted 3 was good but $#@! compared to 2 which felt a big let down as everyone expected it to be better than 2.

    2/4
    Yes.....really. None of the games were $#@! even compared to each other. Period. And we are talking about how they used the cell processor. Whether one or two games was better overall than the others is not the point.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    Really? Uncharted 1 was good but $#@! compared to 2 and was much better games on the market at the time, Uncharted 3 was good but $#@! compared to 2 which felt a big let down as everyone expected it to be better than 2.
    Even if that were true they were still better than most games out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T0PGUN View Post
    Naughty dog say $#@! you

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
    Lmfao. Not to mention GG.

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    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    It was certainly a calculated move.. But what I don't fully understand is why there was no forth coming IBM PowerPC solution available- for either the Xbox One or the PS4. I assume that creating an APU with HSA-like functionality would not be contingent upon a fully AMD system in a console?

    I'm curious what offerings IBM has out there right now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by T0PGUN View Post
    Naughty dog say $#@! you

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
    I didn't realize Naught Dog spoke Chinglish, but I agree



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    The Cell with it's SPUs was just so different than the regular environment that devs were use to. The way you had to split everything up wasn't easy for them to do, and was a pain in the ass especially for multiplat devs that were forced to make such a unique engine for PS3 when the other engines were so much more compatible without so much extreme modding and tweaking. So, many multiplat devs didn't want to have to deal with it, and just did what they had to do to get the game up and running on the system at a decent framerate, and then called it a day.

    x86 and HSA hUMA is the main reason for them to go with AMD. Current APUs on the market are just low level CPUs coupled with a low level GPU for a cheap price. You can game at decent settings on the best APUs out there right now, but it doesn't have any real benefits over the discrete CPU / GPU combo, and isn't future proofed, the raw power of them is comparable to regular CPU/GPUs of equal raw power. The PS4 is gonna have the awesome true unified ram and next level communication between the CPU-GPU that really makes an APU different from separate CPU - GPU setups. And the PS4 will have a much more powerful GPU with more GPGPU computing possibilities (with the 2 sources of compute commands for GPGPU computing being upgraded to 64 sources) than will come in the new APUs next year that will feature the type of HSA hUMA that will come with it. It's well worth it to have switched from Cell for what they are gonna be getting, and the future proofing that it adds, considering it can't be compared to discrete CPU/GPU combinations of the same raw power anymore. The way the power will get pulled out of the GPGPU computing can be so vastly different from dev to dev that it'll be really interesting and there'll be all sorts of new stuff we'll see depending on how devs decide to use it. That's part of what Cerny is talking about with us entering a new Golden Age of Gaming, and there's bound to be tons of new genius indies that make big hits and make a name for themselves during this next-gen.

    I loved how in the NES and PS1 days, you could go to the store and see tons of games that you never saw anything on in gaming magazines or heard about at all. And many of them were awesome games. There were just so many teams making games back then, which wasn't the case anymore after that. I mean, now with the internet, it'll be hard to not hear about new games before seeing them, if you really are looking for the info nonstop. Still though, there being tons of games coming out nonstop, without having to go through the crazy processes they have to go through now that keeps many cool indie games 'n such from coming out - is pretty nice. Also, many of these indies will definitely come out and be compelled to fight off the new era of greedy DLC grubbing mega publishers/devs that milk franchises for every drop of $$$ they can squeeze out of your wallet, by giving tons of free DLC content. That is needed so badly in this new age that Microsoft created with 360 and their guiding of companies to force high priced DLC on the consumers. It's already happening on a lower level on Steam and on PSN 'n such with a few games, but it'll blow up with the next-gen with how easy it's becoming for self publishing and the courting of small indies and reasonable and top quality f2p modeled games.

  18. #16
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    Crazy ken is the one who made the cell. It was a pain in the butt to program for and it was over hyped it costed Sony millions.
    So they went with an x86 chip it's user friendly and cheap

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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    The Cell with it's SPUs was just so different than the regular environment that devs were use to. The way you had to split everything up wasn't easy for them to do, and was a pain in the ass especially for multiplat devs that were forced to make such a unique engine for PS3 when the other engines were so much more compatible without so much extreme modding and tweaking. So, many multiplat devs didn't want to have to deal with it, and just did what they had to do to get the game up and running on the system at a decent framerate, and then called it a day.

    x86 and HSA hUMA is the main reason for them to go with AMD. Current APUs on the market are just low level CPUs coupled with a low level GPU for a cheap price. You can game at decent settings on the best APUs out there right now, but it doesn't have any real benefits over the discrete CPU / GPU combo, and isn't future proofed, the raw power of them is comparable to regular CPU/GPUs of equal raw power. The PS4 is gonna have the awesome true unified ram and next level communication between the CPU-GPU that really makes an APU different from separate CPU - GPU setups. And the PS4 will have a much more powerful GPU with more GPGPU computing possibilities (with the 2 sources of compute commands for GPGPU computing being upgraded to 64 sources) than will come in the new APUs next year that will feature the type of HSA hUMA that will come with it. It's well worth it to have switched from Cell for what they are gonna be getting, and the future proofing that it adds, considering it can't be compared to discrete CPU/GPU combinations of the same raw power anymore. The way the power will get pulled out of the GPGPU computing can be so vastly different from dev to dev that it'll be really interesting and there'll be all sorts of new stuff we'll see depending on how devs decide to use it. That's part of what Cerny is talking about with us entering a new Golden Age of Gaming, and there's bound to be tons of new genius indies that make big hits and make a name for themselves during this next-gen.

    I loved how in the NES and PS1 days, you could go to the store and see tons of games that you never saw anything on in gaming magazines or heard about at all. And many of them were awesome games. There were just so many teams making games back then, which wasn't the case anymore after that. I mean, now with the internet, it'll be hard to not hear about new games before seeing them, if you really are looking for the info nonstop. Still though, there being tons of games coming out nonstop, without having to go through the crazy processes they have to go through now that keeps many cool indie games 'n such from coming out - is pretty nice. Also, many of these indies will definitely come out and be compelled to fight off the new era of greedy DLC grubbing mega publishers/devs that milk franchises for every drop of $$$ they can squeeze out of your wallet, by giving tons of free DLC content. That is needed so badly in this new age that Microsoft created with 360 and their guiding of companies to force high priced DLC on the consumers. It's already happening on a lower level on Steam and on PSN 'n such with a few games, but it'll blow up with the next-gen with how easy it's becoming for self publishing and the courting of small indies and reasonable and top quality f2p modeled games.
    thank you for repying, info was great ur the $#@!ing man. however I disagree with ur comment about being able to keep games under wraps, look at the division. the game blew everyone away because nobody had heard about it or it's features, concept, etc



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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    The Cell could process a ton of data with its architecture which consisted of one primary processor called the PPU and 6 processor units called SPEs. The problem was the offloading of smaller programs to the SPEs was very difficult. I actually attempted some Cell programming in grad school. The difficulty I found was that once I loaded a program to the SPE it was nearly impossible to debug. So it was great that I could create a ton of small programs to handle tasks, but coordinating them was a pain in the ass. So I can't even begin to imagine how devs are able to do what they do with the Cell. Oh....wait....yeah, I do. They are smarter than me.

    I may be saying some of this wrong. I graduated from grad school in 2008 so I'm pulling this from my not so good memory.
    thanks for the reply bro.
    so what ur saying is the cell had awesome compute power with the ability to perform a $#@!load of tasks at once, but it had trouble putting them together to fiction as one?



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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    thanks for the reply bro.
    so what ur saying is the cell had awesome compute power with the ability to perform a $#@!load of tasks at once, but it had trouble putting them together to fiction as one?
    In a nutshell, yeah. Of course, this is just my perspective from what I read when reading about how to program for the cell and what is left of my brain after it nearly exploded when trying to actually code the damn thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    thank you for repying, info was great ur the $#@!ing man. however I disagree with ur comment about being able to keep games under wraps, look at the division. the game blew everyone away because nobody had heard about it or it's features, concept, etc
    I was mainly talking about games actually fully releasing without you having ever really heard anything bout them, not really so much about devs not being able to keep secret projects under wraps. I do browse PSN sometimes and see a few things I hadn't heard about, but not to the level of PSX days though, where there were amazing games that just slipped out without much promotion. It seems that things could go back to the old days now, which could be a very good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    I was mainly talking about games actually fully releasing without you having ever really heard anything bout them, not really so much about devs not being able to keep secret projects under wraps. I do browse PSN sometimes and see a few things I hadn't heard about, but not to the level of PSX days though, where there were amazing games that just slipped out without much promotion. It seems that things could go back to the old days now, which could be a very good thing.
    ok I see what u meant now and I'm in accordance with you on tht post



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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    In a nutshell, yeah. Of course, this is just my perspective from what I read when reading about how to program for the cell and what is left of my brain after it nearly exploded when trying to actually code the damn thing.
    well I'm sure people that would reply to this haven't had hands on experience like you've had so you're perspective carries a lot of weight with me



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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    well I'm sure people that would reply to this haven't had hands on experience like you've had so you're perspective carries a lot of weight with me
    Oh...I've had tons of hands on experience at failing.
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  26. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    Oh...I've had tons of hands on experience at failing.
    lol not what I was trying to imply bro



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    Quote Originally Posted by forrma View Post
    lol not what I was trying to imply bro
    I know, dude. lol

    edit: 4,000th post. Beers on me
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