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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    are you sure about that?
    Well, I think framerate is a possible difference as well. It comes down to what is being processed. Pretty much any GPU these days can do 60fps. It's a matter of what you're willing to sacrifice. Remember, we have 60fps games NOW. We could well see a 60/30fps difference in some games if a power advantage is present to the point where devs want to keep certain effects in place and are unable to without cutting framerate. After all, if it was just a matter of whether a GPU CAN do 60fps and nothing else was involved pretty much everything WOULD be 60fps these days. No, there's a little more involved.

    I don't think that kind of difference is likely for these early games coming out, but I do think it's more likely as we get closer to mid and late gen. Especially if some of these articles (I have to classify them as rumor at this point) are true that state MS went with an earlier generation APU then Sony did. That explains the difference in teraflop performance but isn't officially confirmed. Here's an example: IF it's true that 10% or so of the GPU and 2 cores of the CPU are unavailable for games on the XB1 there are less resources overall available. This is a bit like the PS3 with it's video memory limitations. Remember how Madden was 30fps on the PS3 for the first few releases? Devs said is was a result of the memory limitation and they weren't wanting to cut back on the video effects to the point where they could get it at 60fps. Same kind of thing COULD happen this time around. If you only have so many resources available, you have to design around that and compromise. Sometimes it's rendering a frame at a lesser resolution internally so you can get the amount of processing that you need done within a certain time frame. Otherwise you might target a lower framerate as a compromise. It's very possible. After all we see the same compromises on every system. These two new products apparently aren't capable of doing everything at native 1080p @60fps with all of the effects turned on. Either that or devs haven't gotten the systems figured out enough to the point where they can do so. We'll only see the truth of all this once the devs HAVE figured the systems out completely, which I think will take a year or two.

    The big difference is that the systems are all very accessible which means they shouldn't take too long to figure out. No magical tricks required like there was with the PS3 and the Cell's SPU's, for example. So gamers will see titles that take advantage of the full capabilities of each system much sooner in the generation than they have in previous generations.

    All you have to decide is what to do with the time give to you....
    http://www.woodchuckproductions.net

  2. #402
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    The PS4 has more RAM, RUM, HAM, SPAM and GLAM
    20...

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    excuses excuses excuses.

    Take a look at what the thread is about. GRAPHICS. You keep trying to sway the topic. There's no shame in admitting the ps4 is stronger than your console of choice. That's what it boils down to. When you bring up those other things "that matter most", Sony still holds the advantages.
    lol...My console of choice is whichever brings the games I want to play the most right now. This gen I bought PS3 first because it had games(which came later than i expected) I wanted more then i bought xbox360. This time i'm going with xbox-one first because it has the games I want the most and it better fits the needs of others in my household. I can't speak for anyone else but I have never bought a console based on specs or power. To me, having the most powerful one serves no purpose other than bragging rights I guess. Yes, power is an important factor but no matter how much people deny it, games are what's gonna matter the most.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    LOL, yeah, higher framerates is exactly one of the specific things you can expect from a more powerful GPU. It's even one of the first main examples given by devs of what could end up happening on the first slew of multiplats for next gen, some could end up running at 60fps on PS4 while running at 30fps on Xbone. If they decide to use ALL the extra power to pretty up the effects and add more AA and better draw distance and all sorts of things like that, then it could be the same fps. But, a more straight port, yes, FPS is one of the first things you can expect to be higher on the stronger GPU.
    could you always be here when mynd starts to $#@! with my head? i knew i wasn't going crazy just now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I'm not putting up a fight. i'm just telling it like it is. Here is what i do know though. 99% of the people here don't know jack $#@! about what's inside of both these consoles and how they actually work for games. It all boils down to what you want to believe right now. A dev says that ps4 graphics will beat xbox-one's. Those who probably prefer ps4 will most likely believe that, but at the same time a dev says the cloud is being used to enhance games on xbox-one and those who prefer that will believe it. It's still gonna come down to what people want to play and what they prefer. It's always been that way. If power advantages mattered that much then vita would be killing the 3ds but it's not and we all know why.
    no one is saying that it's going to be the end of all dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    lol...My console of choice is whichever brings the games I want to play the most right now. This gen I bought PS3 first because it had games(which came later than i expected) I wanted more then i bought xbox360. This time i'm going with xbox-one first because it has the games I want the most and it better fits the needs of others in my household. I can't speak for anyone else but I have never bought a console based on specs or power. To me, having the most powerful one serves no purpose other than bragging rights I guess. Yes, power is an important factor but no matter how much people deny it, games are what's gonna matter the most.
    i'm sorry, who's saying that games don't matter the most lol. that's what we've been freaking saying for the past 5 years! it's you guys who said that "[games] don't matter!" exchange that with exclusives. come on!

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  6. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by manutdfan View Post
    The PS4 has more RAM, RUM, HAM, SPAM and GLAM
    Damn..

  7. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Yes, power is an important factor but no matter how much people deny it, games are what's gonna matter the most.
    Before making that decision, you should probably wait until the end of August, after Gamescom: Click Here

    "There are 40 first-party games in development for the PS4, Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida has announced.

    Speaking at the company’s E3 2013 press conference Yoshida said that of those titles, 20 would be launched within the first year of launch.

    He added that a third of these titles would also be brand new IP.

    One such new IP was Sony Santa Monica and Ready at Dawn’s new game The Order 1886, set in a periodic setting featuring mysterious monsterse hiding in the fog.

    Another new IP includes Mark Cerny’s Knack, which was previously revealed at the PS4 unveiling back in February. This will be launched alongside the console.

    In total, there are more than 140 games in development for the PS4 by first-party and third-party developers. Of these, Sony said it expects 100 to be released in the first year."

  8. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by manutdfan View Post
    The PS4 has more RAM, RUM, HAM, SPAM and GLAM
    You see it is reasons like this which showcase why I hold a PS4 preorder.

    8 years and counting!

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  10. #408
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    Oh you guys... TLDR the lot of you!

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Well, you keep having fun with that. To be frank, I thought you were going to point out the paired 16 bit controllers (32-bit effective) as being some kind of drawback. I guess you "schooled" me, though. Good job, sparky.
    *golf clap*
    Coming from he who tried using the frequency of the memory to compare and prove how the PS4 is more powerful, not even realizing that the frequency of the memory is completely useless for comparing the performance of two different consoles.

  12. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post

    i'm sorry, who's saying that games don't matter the most lol. that's what we've been freaking saying for the past 5 years! it's you guys who said that "[games] don't matter!" exchange that with exclusives. come on!
    You guys?...lol I've never said that games don't matter. I have prefered more 3rd party this gen but exclusives do matter. It's just that they don't matter to me as much. A good game is a good game regardless of who it's made or published by.

    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    Before making that decision, you should probably wait until the end of August, after Gamescom: Click Here

    "There are 40 first-party games in development for the PS4, Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida has announced.

    Speaking at the company’s E3 2013 press conference Yoshida said that of those titles, 20 would be launched within the first year of launch.

    He added that a third of these titles would also be brand new IP.

    One such new IP was Sony Santa Monica and Ready at Dawn’s new game The Order 1886, set in a periodic setting featuring mysterious monsterse hiding in the fog.

    Another new IP includes Mark Cerny’s Knack, which was previously revealed at the PS4 unveiling back in February. This will be launched alongside the console.

    In total, there are more than 140 games in development for the PS4 by first-party and third-party developers. Of these, Sony said it expects 100 to be released in the first year."
    Yea , i know more games will be coming from both camps but the games i want the most at launch are on the xbox-one. Killer Instinct, Ryse and Dead rising to name a few. I want those a bit more that what sony is offering at launch. Maybe if naughty dog and Sony Santa monica had something I would be picking up both consoles. Also, Gaikai not being ready played into my decision too. I will be picking up PS4 in 2014 though. Until then My PS3, xbox360 and xbox-one will be hold me over til then.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 07-22-2013 at 01:08.

  13. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    You guys?...lol I've never said that games don't matter. I have prefered more 3rd party this gen but exclusives do matter. It's just that they don't matter to me. A good game is a good game regardless of who it's made or published by.
    ok now it's to you...i just can't win today. $#@!!

  14. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Coming from he who tried using the frequency of the memory to compare and prove how the PS4 is more powerful, not even realizing that the frequency of the memory is completely useless for comparing the performance of two different consoles.
    You're still on this?

  15. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    ok now it's to you...i just can't win today. $#@!!
    Hey, at least you are a mod now......just try not to $#@! it up.

  16. Likes Omar likes this post
  17. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    You're still on this? What if I told you you read it wrong?
    Nope. You compared to memory clock speeds. You even plainly and ever outright said it.

  18. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Nope. You compared to memory clock speeds. You even plainly and ever outright said it.
    Actually, dude, you rather didn't let on to a goddamn thing you were talking about so I started making guesses. So pretty much, I could have mentioned the bandwidth specs and we'd probably be arguing about memory controllers instead, right about now.

    I'm done with this. It's not even clever what you did. You get a 3/10 because you did manage to pull me into an argument. It was just astronomically dumb and certainly off the topic of PS4s obvious superiority over the XBone performance-wise.

  19. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    are you sure about that?
    Triangle bound, yes Im sure.
    Pixel effects, different story.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  20. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Triangle bound, yes Im sure.
    Pixel effects, different story.
    I take it that you mean non-tesselated geometry?

  21. #418
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    I've been mindfucked again. I cannot continue this discussion

  22. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Actually, dude, you rather didn't let on to a goddamn thing you were talking about so I started making guesses. So pretty much, I could have mentioned the bandwidth specs and we'd probably be arguing about memory controllers instead, right about now.

    I'm done with this. It's not even clever what you did. You get a 3/10 because you did manage to pull me into an argument. It was just astronomically dumb and certainly off the topic of PS4s obvious superiority over the XBone performance-wise.
    If you knew what was wrong with such a comparison to begin with, you wouldn't not have needed you scooby-doo clues from me.

  23. #420
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    actually i thought that you were trying to say that the RAM cannot be compared. we all know about the bandwidth thing man, calm down lol.

  24. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    LOL, yeah, higher framerates is exactly one of the specific things you can expect from a more powerful GPU. It's even one of the first main examples given by devs of what could end up happening on the first slew of multiplats for next gen, some could end up running at 60fps on PS4 while running at 30fps on Xbone. If they decide to use ALL the extra power to pretty up the effects and add more AA and better draw distance and all sorts of things like that, then it could be the same fps. But, a more straight port, yes, FPS is one of the first things you can expect to be higher on the stronger GPU.
    How do you render twice the number of triangles per second when you cant push through any more than the oppositions GPU?

    Yes you can certainly combine more texture effects together, and yes when you have complex pixel shaders, you will have a more stable framerate on certain effects, but twice the feamerate with 50% more shader power is not the same as 50% faster overall.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  25. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    I take it that you mean non-tesselated geometry?
    Yes
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  26. #423
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    i, for one, wasn't saying that the GPU is overall 50% faster, but you're now changing your statement. you clearly said that a better GPU doesn't mean faster frame rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    How do you render twice the number of triangles per second when you cant push through any more than the oppositions GPU?

    Yes you can certainly combine more texture effects together, and yes when you have complex pixel shaders, you will have a more stable framerate on certain effects, but twice the feamerate with 50% more shader power is not the same as 50% faster overall.
    I'm rather curious as to what is holding the PS4 back, geometry-wise, that would not do the same to the XBone.
    Last edited by Lefein; 07-22-2013 at 01:52.

  28. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Nope. You compared to memory clock speeds. You even plainly and ever outright said it.
    The memory speed has a direct relation to the memory bandwidth so I'm not sure why you are harping on this so much.

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