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  1. #1
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    Mark Cerny: Cloud Smloud

    PS4's Cerny: Attempts to boost graphics 'won't work well in the cloud'

    PlayStation 4's lead architect Mark Cerny doesn't believe that offloading processes to the cloud will help provide a major graphics boost to developers, despite Microsoft appearing to suggest otherwise.


    In an interview with IGN, Cerny appeared sceptical about the possibilities offered by cloud computing, saying that, though PlayStation 4 will support it, "trying to boost the quality of the graphics... won't work well in the cloud".


    "To the extent that it's possible to do computing in the cloud, PlayStation 4 can do computing in the cloud," he said. "We do some things today. Matchmaking is done in the cloud and it works very well. If we think about things that don't work well, trying to boost the quality of the graphics, that won't work well in the cloud."
    Cerny's comments appear to conflict with those of Microsoft, which has previously said that developers will be able to offload non-latency sensitive processes to cloud servers to lighten.


    Examples of improvements offered by the cloud include superior lighting, cloth physics and fluid dynamics. Microsoft claims that Xbox One is 10 times more powerful than Xbox 360, and even more powerful with the cloud.


    Xbox One releases this November, with PlayStation 4 due to hit stores before the end of the year.
    Source: uk.ign.com
    Source:http://www.videogamer.com/news/ps4s_...the_cloud.html

    As many suspect.

    But also as pointed by many Sony are a hardware company and MS a software company.... so maybe MS are in a better position to make use of it.
    But I do agree, it seems like a bad strategy to put something like graphics in the hands of 'the cloud'.

    No more inappropriate thread titles please! - Ghost
    Last edited by Ghost; 07-18-2013 at 21:58.

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  2. #2
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    That is a very short interview wtf?

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    I find it laughable that people with 5-10Mb internet connections think that somehow they can move enough bits of data to overcome the difference between a 1.83 TFLop GPU and the XBone's.

    It's nothing short of pixie dust and dragon tears. Of course, for some people, Microsoft has a magic wand made from $100 bills.. They kind of remind me of those Christian church services where people fall to the ground after the pastor says hallelujah and touches them on the forehead.

    My only guess is, that when MS talks about "the power of the cloud", they are talking about the bill they receive for running those servers. I wonder if they write it off as an infrastructure cost or marketing, now?
    Last edited by Lefein; 07-18-2013 at 16:48.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    I find it laughable that people with 5-10Mb internet connections think that somehow they can move enough bits of data to overcome the difference between a 1.83 TFLop GPU and the XBone's.

    It's nothing short of pixie dust and dragon tears. Of course, for some people, Microsoft has a magic wand made from $100 bills.. They kind of remind me of those Christian church services where people fall to the ground after the pastor says hallelujah and touches them on the forehead.
    $#@!ing amen =p

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  6. #5
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    I don't have much faith in the cloud, if any. But i am interested in seeing how it copes. I'll always prefer to have the hardware client side but who knows how much the servers, 300,000 iirc (though we don't know how many of these are virtual or physical) will be able to help. it could be very little - what I suspect. Or prove to be valuable - i'll be surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    I find it laughable that people with 5-10Mb internet connections think that somehow they can move enough bits of data to overcome the difference between a 1.83 TFLop GPU and the XBone's. It's nothing short of pixie dust and dragon tears. Of course, for some people, Microsoft has a magic wand made from $100 bills.. They kind of remind me of those Christian church services where people fall to the ground after the pastor says hallelujah and touches them on the forehead. My only guess is, that when MS talks about "the power of the cloud", they are talking about the bill they receive for running those servers. I wonder if they write it off as an infrastructure cost or marketing, now?
    Oh my brother testify! lol But seriously I couldn't agree with you more. +rep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    They kind of remind me of those Christian church services where people fall to the ground after the pastor says hallelujah and touches them on the forehead.
    I did that once just so I could take a nap... Yeah didn't work out to well.... Started snoring...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3d Genius View Post
    That is a very short interview wtf?
    http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/07/17...art-1-hardware
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    The benefits will be evident in the coming years with the use of the cloud. As for boosting graphics, didn't think it would ever be possible or if i is indeed possible, there would be great complications for the majority of gamers to even use that.







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    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Playstation, I will fear no cloud; For You are with me; Your APU and Your GDDR5, they comfort me.

    err sorry

    Go cerny

    anyway on topic most people knew this already really



    Thank you itachi

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    The article says in the end xbox releases this november. Since when have ms announced a date or even month for launch?

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    It'll be fascinating to see the differing approaches of Microsoft and Sony when it comes to the cloud. I'm not all too knowledgeable on the subject, but it does seem like a bunch of 'pixie dust' a Lefein put it. The cloud doesn't magically enable internet connections to handle better graphics.

    ...or does it?

    No, I don't think so.
    Read my work on Medium, my blog, and connect with me on Twitter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SchaffinOSX View Post
    It'll be fascinating to see the differing approaches of Microsoft and Sony when it comes to the cloud. I'm not all too knowledgeable on the subject, but it does seem like a bunch of 'pixie dust' a Lefein put it. The cloud doesn't magically enable internet connections to handle better graphics.

    ...or does it?

    No, I don't think so.
    The problem is it could, just not in the way Microsoft has been saying, if the game was running on the servers with better specs then Xb1 then this could easily be done and the game is streamed like Onlive used to be this would be one way to do it, the main hardware is doing nothing just working as a gateway, oh and AI would work too as many MMO already do this anyway and its not some magic formula they have made up.

    But all this can be done with Sony service anyway, Gaikai could do it if Sony felt it needed it.



    Thank you itachi

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  18. #14
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    I been saying this the whole time its all bull and pr from MS

  19. #15
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    This is just pr from Mark Cerny of Sony. Don't really see it as a big deal. Definitely not the "second coming of Jesus Christ."

  20. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    I find it laughable that people with 5-10Mb internet connections think that somehow they can move enough bits of data to overcome the difference between a 1.83 TFLop GPU and the XBone's.
    There are cases where it could work, but nothing currently feasible for possibly millions of users.
    (IE, slowly updating GI solution of the game world rendered by ~10-100 CPUs or GPUs in a cloud.)

    Cloud becomes only interesting when you throw enough power into it in a latency tolerant case.
    -------
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    The Truth on OpenGL Driver Quality
    Things that drive me nuts about OpenGL

  21. #17
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    The cloud will be able to process routine based equastions, ai that type stuff, graphics? lol.
    But since we are here, lets discredit the article for being too short and Cerny for not being a god.

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  22. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    The cloud will be able to process routine based equastions, ai that type stuff, graphics? lol.
    But since we are here, lets discredit the article for being too short and Cerny for not being a god.
    Do not use the cerny name in vain!



    Thank you itachi

  23. #19
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    I was already suspect about the cloud stuff the way that Microsoft portrays it.




  24. #20
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    So no communication as to why the thread title was changed? Wow. A lil humour in a thread title isn't allowed......
    So if Jesus isn't a fitting description... is the new one better?

    Don't Steal. Don't Molest Little Children. Don't Deal Drugs.

  25. #21

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    Yeah I kinda had the feeling MS was over hyping the cloud. It would be really awesome if they could actually improve graphics with it though.

  26. #22
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    Where does "Baby Killer" come from? When watching that video i was thinking he is a very odd looking person...Almost serial killer like then other times he acts all friendly and comes across very gay. He also looks surprised all the time lol

  27. #23
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    I don't buy into the Cloud promise whatsoever. I'm sure some developers will utilize it, but it'll be gimicky, superficial details. It's just word play by Microsoft to drive up interest.

  28. #24
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    I wouldn't expect Sony to say any different. That said, I am not holding my breath for any graphical enhancements coming from the cloud. Granted, MS is the largest software maker in the world, and they know more than I do....but seems to be something that won't catch on. If every console is NOT connected, then developers won't bother to take advantage of the cloud in any single player type games. What happens if there is a multiplayer game and someone has 5mb connection, and I have a 60mb connection. Will I get a better experience or better graphics? How do you get consistency?

    The cloud services are great for large maps, AI improvements, more people in a match. Graphics, I don't think it will happen.

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  30. #25
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    There are a couple major things that needs to be taken into consideration with regards to whether Cloud computing is realistic to solve a problem.

    One Cerny addressed and that's Latency - Whether or not you can do and improve something on a remote server (cloud) is going to depend upon what your latency restrictions are and if your connection is going to provide for that. For graphics it's mostly a nope - not going to be efficient enough.

    The other is going to be bandwidth needed. If you're talking all of the graphics processing being down on cloud, then with typical broadband data rates, and compression you're still going to look like $#@! with compression artifacts.

    That said, light engine, cloth movement, and some other processing and rendering and providing just information back on this (not full graphics processing but the information from light engine processing to be added back into frames) is actually reasonable to perform and isn't bandwidth limited, but latency. This will degrade with latency issues of course as you'll have stale data and reliance on it makes me feel as nice and fuzzy inside as OnLive and Gaikai does - It's the nice fuzzy of mold which makes me want to vomit.

    I wish Cerny would have said a bit more about why the various graphics processing wouldn't work well in the cloud as I believe he would have detailed a bit more about how bandwidths are reasonable for some of this, but latency is too inconsistent to do it reliably for the masses. And maybe he did in the actual interview as you can tell this was a best a snippet of the overall discussion.



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