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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Yes.... there are some AGENDAS here. Based on posts......PLENTY of AGENDAS to go around.
    [B]
    glad you would agree with me bud

    what i find very odd is... why these agenda driven loony's can't grasp is how even IF the PS4 can only use a little over half of it's ram for games, their console of choice is still weaker by a significant amount. I have to scratch my head on that one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    what is the "everything else" they are talking about? there's the total RAM, the Memory bandwidth, the rough specs (this was leaked though) and no DRM policy...

    this is about as much as sony revealed...


    as for response time. Sony is a big company, considering this was yet another leak, im not surprised they put out a statement to qualm the rumour mill. why would Sony want anything percieved negative to stay in the limelight for too long

    RAM is merely a means to store data and retrieve it quickly. if push came to shove, they (the devs) would put that same data onto the HDD like Uncharted does. so the effect to us as the consumer might as well not exist...how would we perceive it? its the devs who would need to do the workaround. we simply enjoy the end result of their hard work.

    if the GPU was in actuality 50% weaker. that is something we will notice, as the quality of the good we buy won't be as good.

    end result is we, the consumer, won't be bending over backwards to facilitate this info.
    Yeah... but they didn't do anything to stop the rumor mill because they didn't tell us how much RAM was available. THAT is what the rumor was over and they DIDN'T address that AT ALL. They walked completely around the issue by talking about "direct" and "flexible" memory. No one was debating about if the memory was direct or flexible and neither did the rumor have anything to do with those things either.

    Among other words.... SONY ducked the issue. They were answering a question that was NEVER asked nor an issue that was NEVER being discussed.

    Cuz you know..... there was just an explosion of "direct vs flexible memory" threads on the net that Sony needed to address.........NOT!

    And Sony DID release more info than the graphic you showed. Here's from their official US PlayStation site...

    http://us.playstation.com/ps4/features/techspecs/

    RAM available to the devs IS A SPECIFICATION. Just like the CPU and GPU. If RAM available is only a matter for the devs to worry about and not the consumer, then so are the rest of the specs. It's the games that they present to the consumer that matters, not telling them the specs behind them.

    Just ask those consumers what that 64-bit moniker meant to them on the Atari Jaguar ONCE they had the games in their hands. Not much in the end.

    Just because YOU want to discount RAM available to devs doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered in the equation like every other spec that's used in this console vs. this console. Considering EVERY $#@!ING ASPECT of the Xbox One was looked at with a microscope to compare with the PS4........ this is just as relevant to the consumer then any other thing,

    The FACT that Sony has had Mark Cerny doing the PR rounds with the press discussing stuff like bandwidth and work arounds for the GDDR5 latency issue..... issues that ONLY SHOULD CONCERN THE DEVS AND NOT THE CONSUMERS...... tells me IT MATTERS TO THE CONSUMER or they WOULDN'T EVEN BE DISCUSSING IT.

    And they thought as much when they felt the need to CLARIFY with this memory issue with CONSUMERS.....and even THEN..... they NEVER addressed the amount of RAM AT ALL!
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 07-29-2013 at 04:19.

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    @ GreatSpaceKoaster,

    Well, DRM was a HUGE issue, and you could argue it'd have made sense for Sony to immediately say, "NO, we won't force DRM on you.". Instead, they sat 'n watched the crazed fans flip out forever before finally making a statement on it.

    This is less of an issue to them even I'd assume, especially if you consider it seems the devs have atleast, if not slightly more ram available to them atm compared to Xbone's dedicated gaming ram. The Retro City Rampage dev already stated it's absolutely false anyhow, so I would think that means that they atleast got the allocated ram amounts incorrect and that there's more allowed for devs from the get-go. I expect Sony to atleast say something on it by Gamescom though.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Sony WAS around then.... and word has it that Kennedy was about to sign an executive order putting high tariffs on Sony's products so........ you put the pieces together!

    But WHY not PUT IT TO REST by telling us? The devs and Sony seem to have no problems talking EVERYTHING ELSE about the PS4 even though IT DOES NOT CONCERN THE CONSUMER.

    That's why I'm not buying your "IT DOES NOT CONCERN THE CONSUMER" theory. The forums are LIGHTING UP over this. Those ARE A LOT OF CONSUMERS. So much so that Sony felt it had to CLARIFY something within 24 hours....and on a weekend on top of that.

    That's a pretty quick PR response on a weekend for something that "does not concern the consumer". It certainly CONCERNED Sony enough to respond with a NON-ANSWER clarification.
    I MUST say that your WRITING style is rather AMUSING to me. Did I PRONOUNCE that correctly?



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  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Yeah... but they didn't do anything to stop the rumor mill because they didn't tell us how much RAM was available. THAT is what the rumor was over and they DIDN'T address that AT ALL. They walked completely around the issue by talking about "direct" and "flexible" memory. No one was debating about if the memory was direct or flexible and neither did the rumor have anything to do with those things either.

    Among other words.... SONY ducked the issue. They were answering a question that was NEVER asked nor an issue that was NEVER being discussed.

    Cuz you know..... there was just an explosion of "direct vs flexible memory" threads on the net that Sony needed to address.........NOT!

    And Sony DID release more info than the graphic you showed. Here's from their official US PlayStation site...

    http://us.playstation.com/ps4/features/techspecs/

    RAM available to the devs IS A SPECIFICATION. Just like the CPU and GPU. If RAM available is only a matter for the devs to worry about and not the consumer, then so are the rest of the specs. It's the games that they present to the consumer that matters, not telling them the specs behind them.

    Just ask those consumers what that 64-bit moniker meant to them on the Atari Jaguar ONCE they had the games in their hands. Not much in the end.

    Just because YOU want to discount RAM available to devs doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered in the equation like every other spec that's used in this console vs. this console. Considering EVERY $#@!ING ASPECT of the Xbox One was looked at with a microscope to compare with the PS4........ this is just as relevant to the consumer then any other thing,

    The FACT that Sony has had Mark Cerny doing the PR rounds with the press discussing stuff like bandwidth and work arounds for the GDDR5 latency issue..... issues that ONLY SHOULD CONCERN THE DEVS AND NOT THE CONSUMERS...... tells me IT MATTERS TO THE CONSUMER or they WOULDN'T EVEN BE DISCUSSING IT.

    And they thought as much when they felt the need to CLARIFY with this memory issue with CONSUMERS.....and even THEN..... they NEVER addressed the amount of RAM AT ALL!
    WOW so much

    images.jpg

    ...in this post lol

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  8. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    @ GreatSpaceKoaster,

    Well, DRM was a HUGE issue, and you could argue it'd have made sense for Sony to immediately say, "NO, we won't force DRM on you.". Instead, they sat 'n watched the crazed fans flip out forever before finally making a statement on it.

    This is less of an issue to them even I'd assume, especially if you consider it seems the devs have atleast, if not slightly more ram available to them atm compared to Xbone's dedicated gaming ram. The Retro City Rampage dev already stated it's absolutely false anyhow, so I would think that means that they atleast got the allocated ram amounts incorrect and that there's more allowed for devs from the get-go. I expect Sony to atleast say something on it by Gamescom though.
    Then why did Sony respond at all? And when they did.... why did they talk about flexible vs. direct when THAT wasn't something people were flipping out about nor even talking about? They kept silent on the DRM issue, yet felt the need to address this one in 24-hours??!? And then NEVER answer the question for which the flip out was about?

    Sorry... your explanation makes no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    WOW so much

    images.jpg

    ...in this post lol
    So much trolling in that post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath View Post
    I MUST say that your WRITING style is rather AMUSING to me. Did I PRONOUNCE that correctly?
    Yep I THINK you DEFINITLEY have MASTERED his writing STYLE. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    So much trolling in that post...
    why does it hurt you so much if sony hasn't yet revealed the specs yet. gaf insiders have confirmed some games are utilizing 6gb of the available ram

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    So much trolling in that post...
    why does it hurt you so much if sony hasn't yet revealed the specs yet. gaf insiders have confirmed some games are utilizing 6gb of the available ram

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Yep I THINK you DEFINITLEY have MASTERED his writing STYLE. lol
    When they can't come up with a logical retort to your post, they attack it's presentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    When they can't come up with a logical retort to your post, they attack it's presentation.
    Relax, I was just messing with you!

    Now let us continue with the rammage...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    WOW so much

    images.jpg

    ...in this post lol
    Lol dat salt! Love it

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Then why did Sony respond at all? And when they did.... why did they talk about flexible vs. direct when THAT wasn't something people were flipping out about nor even talking about? They kept silent on the DRM issue, yet felt the need to address this one in 24-hours??!? And then NEVER answer the question for which the flip out was about?

    Sorry... your explanation makes no sense.
    They responded to explain the 1GB flexible ram and how it worked. Letting everyone know that the OS isn't using that and it's completely for the game if needed. They may not want to fully go into the whole thing on how much is exactly allocated to OS and to games because they may still be locking that down right now. It might still be a floating point for the moment. Surely they are gonna want to allocate more ram than needed to the OS initially to assure future-proofing, then they'll slowly give more back over time. Them not giving exact numbers with the clarification about the flexible ram doesn't mean that the rumored numbers are correct though.

  17. #40
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    BOOSH!!! WALL OF TEXT!!



    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Yeah... but they didn't do anything to stop the rumor mill because they didn't tell us how much RAM was available. THAT is what the rumor was over and they DIDN'T address that AT ALL. They walked completely around the issue by talking about "direct" and "flexible" memory. No one was debating about if the memory was direct or flexible and neither did the rumor have anything to do with those things either.Among other words.... SONY ducked the issue. They were answering a question that was NEVER asked nor an issue that was NEVER being discussed.

    Cuz you know..... there was just an explosion of "direct vs flexible memory" threads on the net that Sony needed to address.........NOT!
    you're right, they gave people who care something to talk about. the big uproar was how big the OS was, Sony's statement needed to address how the OS gives up that extra 1GB for games to use. this couldn't be done without going into a little detail on how the system does this. ie, flexible RAM and direct RAM.

    And Sony DID release more info than the graphic you showed. Here's from their official US PlayStation site...

    http://us.playstation.com/ps4/features/techspecs/
    thats practically the text version of the pic i posted

    RAM available to the devs IS A SPECIFICATION. Just like the CPU and GPU. If RAM available is only a matter for the devs to worry about and not the consumer, then so are the rest of the specs. It's the games that they present to the consumer that matters, not telling them the specs behind them.

    Just ask those consumers what that 64-bit moniker meant to them on the Atari Jaguar ONCE they had the games in their hands. Not much in the end.


    Just because YOU want to discount RAM available to devs doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered in the equation like every other spec that's used in this console vs. this console. Considering EVERY $#@!ING ASPECT of the Xbox One was looked at with a microscope to compare with the PS4........ this is just as relevant to the consumer then any other thing,

    The FACT that Sony has had Mark Cerny doing the PR rounds with the press discussing stuff like bandwidth and work arounds for the GDDR5 latency issue..... issues that ONLY SHOULD CONCERN THE DEVS AND NOT THE CONSUMERS...... tells me IT MATTERS TO THE CONSUMER or they WOULDN'T EVEN BE DISCUSSING IT.

    And they thought as much when they felt the need to CLARIFY with this memory issue with CONSUMERS.....and even THEN..... they NEVER addressed the amount of RAM AT ALL!
    firstly, the type of RAM is a specification. the amount is not. 512MB GDDR5 is better then 1GB GDDR3. the amount is a triviality and amounts to little unless you're the one using it to store stuff.

    this leads onto your next point about bandwidth.

    RAM only keeps this "I/O" stored. more space, more ones and zeroes. why bandwidth is being discussed is because that directly affects what you see on screen. the higher the bandwidth, the more "I/O" can pass through to the screen, this manifests in better visual detail. the flip side of this is latency concerning the CPU. and this was only brought up by tech heads as its a legitimate concern for GDDR5, as it has a higher latency then DDR3 (which is why desktops still use DDR3 for the CPU)

    the type of ram hasn't changed. it's still GDDR5, we'll still see the same games.

    EDIT:
    oh, i almost forgot:
    lets chillax with the name calling please. RAM and the 'official statement' can be discussed without finger pointing and flamebaiting

    i appreciate your co-operation
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 07-29-2013 at 05:14.
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  18. #41
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    What sony is doing is actually very clever... they dont want people shoehorning them into a set number of RAM. because then it becomes "if sony is only allowing 5GB RAM and MS has 5GB RAM..." comparisons... which STILL wouldnt be accurate because in the end... that number doesnt really mean what "most" everyone thinks it does. Just because a game is using PS4's 5GB of RAM doesnt mean it runs equal to or less than other games running the same ram... the type of ram, in conjunction with the console itself means that it "COULD" run equal to what most people would think 8GB RAM would offer. Like Fijiandoce said... the GDDR5 and regular GDDR3 are much different... so the number doesnt mean what many people thinks it means... and with sony holding back that little tidbit, it means less people to inaccurately compare 5 to 5 (or whatever amount of RAM will be compared)
    Last edited by SomaXD; 07-29-2013 at 05:31.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post

    firstly, the type of RAM is a specification. the amount is not. 512MB GDDR5 is better then 1GB GDDR3. the amount is a triviality and amounts to little unless you're the one using it to store stuff.

    this leads onto your next point about bandwidth.

    RAM only keeps this "I/O" stored. more space, more ones and zeroes. why bandwidth is being discussed is because that directly affects what you see on screen. the higher the bandwidth, the more "I/O" can pass through to the screen, this manifests in better visual detail. the flip side of this is latency concerning the CPU. and this was only brought up by tech heads as its a legitimate concern for GDDR5, as it has a higher latency then DDR3 (which is why desktops still use DDR3 for the CPU)

    the type of ram hasn't changed. it's still GDDR5, we'll still see the same games.

    RAM available to the dev for game making IS a spec. It SPECIFIES how much they have to work with. In THIS CASE... it's a floating or variable spec that can be changed AFTER the consumer has the product in their hands. Much like if Sony or MS made a software update to higher the clock rate of the CPU or GPU that was released UNDER-CLOCKED.

    In the case of RAM, you can optimize your code to do more with less RAM. But the allocation is still a spec a dev must consider. Specs are attributes... type of RAM, the speed, the bandwidth, the amount AVAILABLE FOR USE all qualify as specs the dev needs to know when making games on it.

  20. #43
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    So let me get this strait. Sony wont confirm the amount of ram allocated to games, and they still haven't revealed any info on the mysterious custom chip that handled all the background shenanigans. 2 items that technically aren't of any concern to consumers (albeit the more tech conscious among us). Mystifying

    I almost feel like the custom chip is a mystery to the devs as well. Looks to me Like Sony has learned how to keep secrets, and is gonna keep at least that one. Back to the ram, it would be nice to to have a grasp on how much optimization has gone into all that stuff running in the background while I'm playing Killzone, lol, but I guess 2 gigs is quite efficient.

    that's my 2

    carry on salty folks .....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    why does it hurt you so much if sony hasn't yet revealed the specs yet. gaf insiders have confirmed some games are utilizing 6gb of the available ram
    It wouldn't be hurt it would be annoyed.

    Simple enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by XtraTrstrL View Post
    They responded to explain the 1GB flexible ram and how it worked. Letting everyone know that the OS isn't using that and it's completely for the game if needed.
    Who did they respond to?

    Point me in the direction of someone asking Sony to explain unnecessary $#@!.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    When they can't come up with a logical retort to your post, they attack it's presentation.
    I imagine that the pic in your avatar is how your face must look reading all these hypocritical post.

    Funny thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post


    Who did they respond to?

    Point me in the direction of someone asking Sony to explain unnecessary $#@!.



    I imagine that the pic in your avatar is how your face must look reading all these hypocritical post.

    huh? what did sony do to you? aside from creating a console that is gamer first, anti screw the consumer in the butt
    Last edited by Peregrin8X; 07-29-2013 at 06:44.

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    First of all, I am Sony's Chief Staff of Development Manager on Games and $#@!, and none of you lowly non-Sony-employed gamers can prove otherwise!...so I've come forth to tell you all that the rumors are false!...

    All of the rumors...

    All of them...

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    Actually Brian said the 4.5gb was absolutely false. Then on his blog back tracked a little by acknowledging that Eurogamer had change their title.

    As for theN4g rumours re: 6gb.
    Said rumour people have been wrong before.

    Not that 1gb is any big difference.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    RAM available to the dev for game making IS a spec. It SPECIFIES how much they have to work with. In THIS CASE... it's a floating or variable spec that can be changed AFTER the consumer has the product in their hands. Much like if Sony or MS made a software update to higher the clock rate of the CPU or GPU that was released UNDER-CLOCKED.

    In the case of RAM, you can optimize your code to do more with less RAM. But the allocation is still a spec a dev must consider. Specs are attributes... type of RAM, the speed, the bandwidth, the amount AVAILABLE FOR USE all qualify as specs the dev needs to know when making games on it.
    my point exactly, which is why its concerns the devs and not us

    that's not me saying it. i forget who it was but one of the devs (i think it was a Naughty Dog dev) basically said, whatever the amount, it means little to the consumer as they won't be storing stuff there. its the devs that need to craft the workaround. all we do is play the same game we would've otherwise have played even if all 8GB were solely for gaming.

    you could have 100GB worth of RAM and it wouldn't mean anything. what matters is the bus that gets data to and from the RAM. as this hasn't changed, we wont see any difference on our end.

    also, both MS and Sony are reserving more RAM then they actually need. launch games wont be using it all to begin with, and as consumers give feedback on the console, both companies can go about freeing up RAM for use on games.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    my point exactly, which is why its concerns the devs and not us

    that's not me saying it. i forget who it was but one of the devs (i think it was a Naughty Dog dev) basically said, whatever the amount, it means little to the consumer as they won't be storing stuff there. its the devs that need to craft the workaround. all we do is play the same game we would've otherwise have played even if all 8GB were solely for gaming.

    you could have 100GB worth of RAM and it wouldn't mean anything. what matters is the bus that gets data to and from the RAM. as this hasn't changed, we wont see any difference on our end.

    also, both MS and Sony are reserving more RAM then they actually need. launch games wont be using it all to begin with, and as consumers give feedback on the console, both companies can go about freeing up RAM for use on games.
    They are ALL variables...including RAM available to devs.

    I personally don't have a problem with 5GB of RAM and I think things will be fine. But to say that RAM available to devs is only for them to worry about is ridiculous. IF the PS4 only had 1GB of memory for devs to work with, it will show up to the consumer in the finished product..... which is why it would be a VARIABLE a consumer would have to consider.

    It's like giving a formula 1 Ferrari car a fuel tank the size of a soda can and expect it to win a race that's 100 laps. You may say that's the driver's problem, but it becomes YOUR problem too if you are considering sponsoring the car.

    The ONLY reason this is even a topic was because of the rumored 7GB for dev use that doesn't appear to be the case. Otherwise 5GB is PLENTY to make awesome games with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    They are ALL variables...including RAM available to devs.

    I personally don't have a problem with 5GB of RAM and I think things will be fine. But to say that RAM available to devs is only for them to worry about is ridiculous. IF the PS4 only had 1GB of memory for devs to work with, it will show up to the consumer in the finished product..... which is why it would be a VARIABLE a consumer would have to consider.

    It's like giving a formula 1 Ferrari car a fuel tank the size of a soda can and expect it to win a race that's 100 laps. You may say that's the driver's problem, but it becomes YOUR problem too if you are considering sponsoring the car.

    The ONLY reason this is even a topic was because of the rumored 7GB for dev use that doesn't appear to be the case. Otherwise 5GB is PLENTY to make awesome games with.
    if we're going to play the "if" game, there's nothing really to discuss.

    naturally, 1MB of super fast RAM won't get you anywhere. but realistically, are they[MS & Sony] going to do so? all things in moderation

    all the consumer needs to know is that 8GB is still in there. and that it has in no way been gimped to facilitate something else.

    the ingame XMB is around 50MB. considering PS3 has split 256MB pools of RAM, that is a huge footprint, and that's after being slimmed down. did anybody have any issues with uncharted 2, or the last of us? no, they were none the wiser of the RAM not being fully utilized.

    it's also worth pointing out that the PS4 will do things all at the same time. i think it was Kaz who said everything will be accessible from anywhere on the PS4. so you can buy a game whilst playing KZ, or add money to your wallet etc. this requires RAM to be reserved so the system can do that.
    Sig courtesy of the_jim


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