Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst ... 3 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 82
  1. #51
    Newbie

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    71
    Rep Power
    26
    Points
    813 (0 Banked)
    Just because sony hasnt mentioned how much doesnt mean the rumours are true. The 6gb and saying the article is rubbish is more believable by certain insiders.
    Digital f also said ps4 has 7 mins while sony said 15.
    To be honest, i woukdnt be surprised if the rumour was given to them by pro microsoft guy and from just a rumour its caused all this crap.
    If that article gets thrown out the window, i think everything should boycott df.

  2. #52
    Ultimate Veteran
    Lefein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    34
    Posts
    23,002
    Rep Power
    195
    Points
    109,908 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    One thing I don't see anyone taking into consideration in this debate is the fact that 3GBs is ALL the VMEM a PC developer can expect to use. There is literally no reason for a developer on PS4 to really need a whole lot more memory than that because in PC, you have to clone textures to main memory that the CPU needs to make changes to before that is sent back to the videocard and vise versa. With unified memory, you really only need to take into consideration the amount of memory you need for game objects and then only your actual game code on top of that.

    Anything north of 4.5 GBs is ideal for developers until things go really top-end, which we should all agree, is not bloody likely to happen at the launch of a console (anyone remember PS3s launch year? Maybe 3 or 4 gems there tops). So, it really is in Sony's best interest to hold on to that system RAM until they can justify letting go of it. Every time they down-size that system-allocated memory, it draws a ring around how much they can expand the system and services available to it in the future. You can bet your ass there is a reason why MS is using up so much memory towards the system and it has everything to do with their "entertainment in one" device.

    Sony is in a game of chicken with MS in this regard. Sony's "games first" mantra will only go so far as they don't find themselves placed out of a market they helped create because the other guy pulled a Wii-move with some app-support that you can't possibly do because you have already tied your horse to a pole across town while the raiders come in firing away. It is for THIS reason that I find this article by Leadbetter that started this whole mess incredibly suspect. Someone is trying to smoke Sony out of their hole and it has become a giant internet $#@!-storm over absolutely nothing. Obviously, XBox supporters have gotten their first sniff of a potential "issue" with the PS4 and are dog-piling all over it and shouting from every mountain top they can about it. What's going on behind closed doors with the gaming press is where the real story is at IMHO.

  3. Likes jphuff likes this post
  4. #53
    Veteran
    Bligmerk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    4,415
    Rep Power
    98
    Points
    21,947 (0 Banked)
    Oh man, Lefein, you used to be cool several years ago but now you have been pressured to take the tepid lukewarm neutral stance on game consoles required by this forum. The big problem that many aren't seeing is you can't have passion with tepid, lukewarm. PSU declared passion verboten many years ago so we go into the bland future.

    You are forgetting Cerny said the memory architecture was going to allow for substantial GPGPU computations. Don't ever bring PC characteristics to the PS4. PC's use PCI-e between CPU and GPU, huge bottleneck. Too many gamers are now starting to think because a multi-core x86 CPU is central, that the system architecture a priori is like a PC. There are many paradigms falling to the wayside with the PS4 system architecture and people that are stuck in explaining everything with PC analogies are just going to result in whole bunch of 1's and 0's confusion, filling gigabytes of bandwidth with junk. That is why Cerny is the systems architecture lead and we are not.
    Pacing in wait of Sony's imminent DOOM!...since 2006
    PS4 - The Only Hardcore Gaming Console = All Your Baserape Are Belong To Us

  5. #54
    Superior Member
    Peregrin8X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    orange county
    Posts
    532
    Rep Power
    19
    Points
    11,512 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    Oh man, Lefein, you used to be cool several years ago but now you have been pressured to take the tepid lukewarm neutral stance on game consoles required by this forum. The big problem that many aren't seeing is you can't have passion with tepid, lukewarm. PSU declared passion verboten many years ago so we go into the bland future.
    i quite disagree

    Leffy hasn't changed at all, just that we all have to be more careful with what we say. some people can consider the slightest thing trolling or flamebaiting.

    he's just as passionate since the day he joined this forum. and i'm passionate about the playstation brand to no end!
    Last edited by Peregrin8X; 07-29-2013 at 18:08.

  6. Likes JDizzleNO1 , mistercrow likes this post
  7. #55
    Ultimate Veteran
    Lefein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    34
    Posts
    23,002
    Rep Power
    195
    Points
    109,908 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    I am actually quite relishing the fact that I can use some people's own medicine against them this time around. I've not lost passion for this, only grandly more insidious in the delivery.

  8. Likes JDizzleNO1 likes this post
  9. #56
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,189
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    202,089 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    Don't ever bring PC characteristics to the PS4. PC's use PCI-e between CPU and GPU, huge bottleneck. Too many gamers are now starting to think because a multi-core x86 CPU is central, that the system architecture a priori is like a PC. There are many paradigms falling to the wayside with the PS4 system architecture and people that are stuck in explaining everything with PC analogies are just going to result in whole bunch of 1's and 0's confusion, filling gigabytes of bandwidth with junk. That is why Cerny is the systems architecture lead and we are not.
    Blig, the system is actually setup very much like a PC.

    1/ Memory is still split, and allocated two one of 2 buss's

    Bus 1 -176gb/s to form GPU caches.

    Bus 2 -Around 20gb/s to from CPU

    The third bus, runs between the CPU->GPU, this is new. It goes form the CPU->GPU without having to hit the GPU caches, it is also 20gb/s. But it has no access to memory (I have a theory it does have some form of memory maybe even up to 128mb, but I have no absolute proof).

    PCI runs around the same (16gb/s from memory).

    In traditional terms it very very PC like. But....as you say.....

    When you delve into it, and really start using that 3rd bus. It becomes quite apparent why that 176gb is for GPU only, and why there are so many compute units, as I have long stated, it's actually imbalanced for use as GPU. Increase the clock speed of the GPU would actually help the average GPU shader code out, far more than simply throwing more CU's at it like Sony did.

    So why did they? Because of that bus.
    The ability to spin off task from the CPU directly to GPU means the GPU can then send back results back to the ram. And lets face it largely parallel tasks are usually consist of only 2 things

    1/ Culling data (such as scene graphics by iteratively testing and culling data)
    2/ Producing far more data from the source.

    Its the later where you could effectively be in a situation where 20gb/s in 176 gb/s out is going benefit the system.

    So yes, it is for all intensive purposes a "PC", until people start delving into that 3rd bus, and using the GPU for GPGPU scenarios.

    That's really when we will see this system kick in and differentiate itself. But that's still only a equal slice, and traditional PC methods will still be used where it makes most sense to.

    Personally I cant wait to see what sort of differed rendered, or post processing effects take place in the graphics area.
    Last edited by mynd; 07-29-2013 at 23:45.

  10. Likes ToXiCNiGhTMaRe, Lefein likes this post
  11. #57
    Superior Member
    JDizzleNO1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    where the sun don't shine
    PSN ID
    JDizzleNO1
    Posts
    887
    Rep Power
    31
    Points
    2,534 (0 Banked)
    Items Diablo IIIMetallicaUser name styleDark Souls CoverDemons Souls CoverPS3 Fat
    this topic is yet another on RAM that makes me want to

    i think its hilarious there are ARGUMENTS over RAM when there shouldn't be, but that is just me.



  12. #58
    Superior Member
    JDizzleNO1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    where the sun don't shine
    PSN ID
    JDizzleNO1
    Posts
    887
    Rep Power
    31
    Points
    2,534 (0 Banked)
    Items Diablo IIIMetallicaUser name styleDark Souls CoverDemons Souls CoverPS3 Fat
    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    i quite disagree

    Leffy hasn't changed at all, just that we all have to be more careful with what we say. some people can consider the slightest thing trolling or flamebaiting.

    he's just as passionate since the day he joined this forum. and i'm passionate about the playstation brand to no end!
    there is a problem with this, even though you're a diehard playstation nut on a PLAYSTATION WEBSITE...you can't be like this..its just....illogical



  13. #59
    Dedicated Member
    victorijapoosp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,284
    Rep Power
    47
    Points
    14,273 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Mynd. The memory is not split. It's unified. There's no useless time consuming edram puzzle to be solve, like xbone's weaker split ram.
    You can't be serious with the 30 megabyte signature... ~ Staff

    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
    Great song, should have more views :'(

    SHIMAASAAAANIIII!!!!!
    http://i.imgur.com/bP50xuM.png

  14. #60
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    167
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    Mynd. The memory is not split. It's unified. There's no useless time consuming edram puzzle to be solve, like xbone's weaker split ram.
    Yep, Mynd is wrong. The PS4 has unified memory. Mark Cerny even talked about that. He said unified memory was what developers told him and Sony they wanted so they put it in the PS4. I think it was when spoke at Game Labs. And http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/20/ps4-...l-performance/
    Last edited by mistercrow; 07-30-2013 at 06:44.

  15. #61
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,189
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    202,089 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    Mynd. The memory is not split. It's unified. There's no useless time consuming edram puzzle to be solve, like xbone's weaker split ram.
    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Yep, Mynd is wrong. The PS4 has unified memory. Mark Cerny even talked about that. He said unified memory was what developers told him and Sony they wanted so they put it in the PS4. I think it was when spoke at Game Labs.
    Nope, wrong.
    Its a unified pool of memory, its not unified memory.

    The memory must be tagged and split as either Video Ram, or CPU ram. YOu can use it as "shared" but the performance penalty is apparently awefull.

    Cerney actually talks about a unified pool. And yes its certainly more flexible than hard limits, but its still has to be allocated.

    More crucial is how the 8GB of RAM in the PlayStation 4 is utilised. This unified pool is a significant advantage over platforms like PC and PS3, where CPU and graphics RAM takes the form of two entirely separate pools of memory. The PS4 operates a system where memory is allocated either to the CPU or GPU, using two separate memory buses.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...-playstation-4

    "One's called the Onion, one's called the Garlic bus. Onion is mapped through the CPU caches... This allows the CPU to have good access to memory," explains Jenner.

    "Garlic bypasses the CPU caches and has very high bandwidth suitable for graphics programming, which goes straight to the GPU. It's important to think about how you're allocating your memory based on what you're going to put in there."
    "One issue we had was that we had some of our shaders allocated in Garlic but the constant writing code actually had to read something from the shaders to understand what it was meant to be writing - and because that was in Garlic memory, that was a very slow read because it's not going through the CPU caches. That was one issue we had to sort out early on, making sure that everything is split into the correct memory regions otherwise that can really slow you down."
    Last edited by mynd; 07-30-2013 at 06:43.

  16. #62
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,265
    Rep Power
    197
    Points
    130,050 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Nope, wrong.
    Its a unified pool of memory, its not unified memory.

    The memory must be tagged and split as either Video Ram, or CPU ram. YOu can use it as "shared" but the performance penalty is apparently awefull.

    Cerney actually talks about a unified pool. And yes its certainly more flexible than hard limits, but its still has to be allocated.



    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...-playstation-4
    so in other words, it's a better approach than a unified memory.

  17. #63
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    167
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Sony is calling it unified system memory here. http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/20/ps4-...l-performance/

  18. #64
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,189
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    202,089 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so in other words, it's a better approach than a unified memory.
    Its basically emulating a PC's split memory configuration with a unified pool.

    Better? not without a few key things they have put in place, that 3rd bus between the CPU->GPU for one.

    But it does mean the sharing of resources isnt quite what it could have been, but I do understand why they went that way for ease of porting content from PC.

  19. Likes Omar likes this post
  20. #65
    Superior Member
    Peregrin8X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    orange county
    Posts
    532
    Rep Power
    19
    Points
    11,512 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so in other words, it's a better approach than a unified memory.
    yes, to answer your question, it's the superior solution. no amount of spin is gonna change that

  21. #66
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,189
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    202,089 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Sony is calling it unified system memory here. http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/20/ps4-...l-performance/
    Still split in software.

  22. #67
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,189
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    202,089 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    yes, to answer your question, it's the superior solution. no amount of spin is gonna change that
    Superior to what? MS's solution?
    It will be superior when it comes to things like GP compute. In fact its geared to GP compute.
    I don't know about the other way cause I don't know what real world things will impact on either system.

  23. #68
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    167
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so in other words, it's a better approach than a unified memory.
    Sounds like it.

  24. #69
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,189
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    202,089 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Sounds like it.
    Only time will tell us that.

  25. #70
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    167
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Superior to what? MS's solution? It will be superior when it comes to things like GP compute. In fact its geared to GP compute. I don't know about the other way cause I don't know what real world things will impact on either system.
    GP? As in graphics processing?

  26. #71
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,265
    Rep Power
    197
    Points
    130,050 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    all good info mynd.

  27. #72
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    167
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Only time will tell us that.
    And I think it will tell us that.

  28. #73
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,189
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    202,089 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    GP? As in graphics processing?
    General purpose. Its all geared to HUMA.

  29. #74
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    167
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    General purpose. Its all geared to HUMA.
    Oh ok. These dang abbreviations. lol

  30. #75
    Apprentice
    XtraTrstrL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    PSN ID
    XtraTrstrL
    Posts
    339
    Rep Power
    17
    Points
    4,813 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    General purpose. Its all geared to HUMA.
    Yeah, the architecture incorporates a mutant hybrid of HSA. Something I'm pretty sure the Xbone doesn't have going. The PS4 leverages alot of upcoming Kaveri HSA features. The Xbone seems to be based on Kabini, which doesn't have next-gen HSA support.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.