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  1. #26
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    exactly. it's like saying that we should burn all the copies of "catcher in the rye" because that inspired a killer to kill. human beings will find inspiration to fulfill any prophecies in their heads. it doesn't matter what it is. sometimes it's a weapon, sometimes it's a book. or a goddamn video game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    there's no reason to believe that one day if religion stops to exist that people will still not act like what human beings normally do.

    destruction is part of us.
    That is very true unfortunately, we are a very destruction species! Just look at what we do to our planet that we live on (not trying to be all hippy), we are constantly destroying the environment! The movie Wall-E isn't too far off...

    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    I didn't mean "something" to be divine entity in that sentence, but rather anything at all; an idea, a concept etc.
    Point was that conflict doesn't depend on the particular 'something' but on the differences between people
    Ahhh, yes, I agree with you on that, even without the divine entity people will still argue and fight over what they believe is correct. People in general just need to learn to be more passive and not have the need to convert other people to their beliefs, let them choose on their own. The one thing that pisses me off is to see parents pushing all their 'beliefs' onto their children and not letting the child figure stuff out for themselves, I refuse to push any beliefs onto my daughter, I don't in anyway push my atheist beliefs onto her...she is free to choose what ever suites her and makes her happy in life, but it is for her to figure out...

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  3. #28
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    Simpy put, why care you do not live there and let them two states get on with how that want to treat one another...

    No one else's business how a country treats another, unless it is in your backyard...
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Big problem with your logic but nothing new considering it's you. Most of the United States territory was gained fair and square though some of it was gained through provocations with then established powers.

    1. The Louisiana Purchase was a fair exchange in that Napoleon Bonaparte needed money to finance his war against Great Britain and further saw it as sticking it to the British by essentially doubling America's territory.

    2. The Florida Purchase was a fair trade deal made with Spain in exchange for a small portion of the then Louisiana territory. During this time, Spain also surrendered the Oregon Country through the Adams-Oris Treaty.

    3. My only contention is the acquisition of parts of then Mexico wherein The United States provoked Mexico into the Mexican-American War. Texas was entered into the US fair and square when it first declared its independence from Mexico and then formally applied for and received statehood status within the United States. Following Mexico's defeat and near destruction, America did get the southwest territories as per a treaty with Mexico and Mexico received a lot of money to get its financial house in order.

    4. The natives lost out mainly because in times of war, they were on the losing side. Such is the case with the Revolutionary War, War Of 1812 and Mexican-American War. While I'll never approve of dislocation of a people or genocide, (as is the case with the Iroquois but kinda brought on themselves with their constant raids) regardless of the circumstances and events, the borders of the Contiguous United States has been set for roughly 141-164 years with very few irregularities. The border squabbles are few and far between and are constantly being dealt with diplomatically.

    Can Israel say the same? It's very reformation in 1947 was built on the confiscation of lands of other established nation states. It gained a lot of territory through a couple of its preemptive acts of aggression, effectively stealing land from various nations. If you want to make a case of Israel having a right to exist because it was there before, I'll make the case for Iran, formally known as the Persian Empire having rights to the bulk of the Middle East because it was formed prior to that of just about every other Middle Eastern nation, including Israel.

    And guess what? Israel with its Judaism religion, the Arabs and Muslim religion of Islam and Christianity are all succession religions of an older religion known as Zoroastrianism.

    By the way, you can thank the Assyrians for the destruction of ancient Israel.

    Mad props to you for actually knowing the bold. So few do.

    In general, there's alot to like in this post.

    My general position is the situation sucks and we should have -never- intervened and formed Israel. Palestine is just a political pawn in the game of the Arabs to have a legitimate beef and source of antagonism towards Israel- they could care very little about the Palestinians otherwise.

    Again, historically, might makes right. I don't feel too fondly about that, but what other cards are really on the table that reflect reality?

    We really should back off and let Israel fix its own problem. We've created more than our fair share by sticking our nose in that region more than we should- granted, we have valid interests (stable flow of oil) but diminishing returns errywhere.


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  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    Ahhh, yes, I agree with you on that, even without the divine entity people will still argue and fight over what they believe is correct. People in general just need to learn to be more passive and not have the need to convert other people to their beliefs, let them choose on their own.
    we should but realistically, just like crime will never be zero and we don't expect it to be, there's no reason to believe that we'll ever be peaceful...if peace was supposed to completely dominate everything, we wouldn't have the "ability" to destroy and there'd be no death. i guess that goes for everything in the universes.

    The one thing that pisses me off is to see parents pushing all their 'beliefs' onto their children and not letting the child figure stuff out for themselves, I refuse to push any beliefs onto my daughter, I don't in anyway push my atheist beliefs onto her...she is free to choose what ever suites her and makes her happy in life, but it is for her to figure out...
    this the route I'm going. i don't want my children to be Muslim just because I'm Muslim. I'm struggling to put everything into perspective. in one way, i understand why there are restrictions there for us to follow, on the other hand, i don't feel things that religious people do. which is a totally different matter i think. maybe it's your state of mind that makes you feel a certain way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Mad props to you for actually knowing the bold. So few do.

    In general, there's alot to like in this post.

    My general position is the situation sucks and we should have -never- intervened and formed Israel. Palestine is just a political pawn in the game of the Arabs to have a legitimate beef and source of antagonism towards Israel- they could care very little about the Palestinians otherwise.

    Again, historically, might makes right. I don't feel too fondly about that, but what other cards are really on the table that reflect reality?

    We really should back off and let Israel fix its own problem. We've created more than our fair share by sticking our nose in that region more than we should- granted, we have valid interests (stable flow of oil) but diminishing returns errywhere.
    honestly it's not all arabs. i used to think all arabs were against israel. it would seem that way from the citizens and that is because we're sheep.

    israel and sunnis (majority of arabs) now see their friendship as a means to oust the more powerful sect shia (powerful as in strength in military/resources if you look at their proportion).

    it's all politics and we (sheep) are being fed this hatred by the few that actually make money off this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    we should but realistically, just like crime will never be zero and we don't expect it to be, there's no reason to believe that we'll ever be peaceful...if peace was supposed to completely dominate everything, we wouldn't have the "ability" to destroy and there'd be no death. i guess that goes for everything in the universes.


    this the route I'm going. i don't want my children to be Muslim just because I'm Muslim. I'm struggling to put everything into perspective. in one way, i understand why there are restrictions there for us to follow, on the other hand, i don't feel things that religious people do. which is a totally different matter i think. maybe it's your state of mind that makes you feel a certain way.
    honestly it's not all arabs. i used to think all arabs were against israel. it would seem that way from the citizens and that is because we're sheep.

    israel and sunnis (majority of arabs) now see their friendship as a means to oust the more powerful sect shia (powerful as in strength in military/resources if you look at their proportion).

    it's all politics and we (sheep) are being fed this hatred by the few that actually make money off this.
    I'm just using 'Arab' as a blanket statement\general term. Yes, Saudi Arabia (whom I despise) has tag teamed with Israel to displace and depose major regional adversaries like Iraq and Iran- the only real threads to Saudi Arabia and Israel at this point.

    And yea, they are both Shia iirc (I know for a fact Iran is).


  9. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I'm just using 'Arab' as a blanket statement\general term. Yes, Saudi Arabia (whom I despise) has tag teamed with Israel to displace and depose major regional adversaries like Iraq and Iran- the only real threads to Saudi Arabia and Israel at this point.

    And yea, they are both Shia iirc (I know for a fact Iran is).
    ah i see. yea i just wanted to throw that out there. it's why i also despise those rich oil-heads.

    basically i despise a lot of governments (specifically the hidden people that control the officials). i know that makes me a hippie lol but i don't care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Mad props to you for actually knowing the bold. So few do.

    In general, there's alot to like in this post.

    My general position is the situation sucks and we should have -never- intervened and formed Israel. Palestine is just a political pawn in the game of the Arabs to have a legitimate beef and source of antagonism towards Israel- they could care very little about the Palestinians otherwise.

    Again, historically, might makes right. I don't feel too fondly about that, but what other cards are really on the table that reflect reality?

    We really should back off and let Israel fix its own problem. We've created more than our fair share by sticking our nose in that region more than we should- granted, we have valid interests (stable flow of oil) but diminishing returns errywhere.
    Thanks Vulgotha. And I have to agree with pretty much everything that you've pointed out. My only contention is that I think Israel should be dissolved and the surrounding nations be allowed to reacquire said lost territories. At some point, the cost of the "Might Makes Right" foreign policy has to be revisited. The dissolution of Israel, (note MossadAgent0, this doesn't mean the genocide of the Jews, so you may as well get that thought out of your head) would go a long way towards easing tensions with the rest of the Middle East.

    I do think that Saudi Arabia should be punished. Their constant duplicity and antagonism towards the rest of their neighbors is criminal and the country should be dealt with, punitively and decisively. (My personal opinion)

  11. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Big problem with your logic but nothing new considering it's you. Most of the United States territory was gained fair and square though some of it was gained through provocations with then established powers.

    1. The Louisiana Purchase was a fair exchange in that Napoleon Bonaparte needed money to finance his war against Great Britain and further saw it as sticking it to the British by essentially doubling America's territory.

    2. The Florida Purchase was a fair trade deal made with Spain in exchange for a small portion of the then Louisiana territory. During this time, Spain also surrendered the Oregon Country through the Adams-Oris Treaty.
    The Jews owned the land just like the Americans did. I can probably understand why the media and colleges don't want to teach this knowledge.
    Most of the United States territory was gained fair and square though some of it was gained through provocations with then established powers.
    Same exact situation as how Israel got land, they bought it and gained through the Arab armies aggression provocations with the Israel.(Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and i think lebanon.

    Jewish land purchase in "Palestine"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine

    Towards the end of the 19th-century, the creation of the Zionist movement resulted in many European Jews emigrating to Palestine. Most land purchases between the late 1880s and the 1930s were located in the coastal plain area, including "Acre to the North and Rehovoth to the South, the Esdraelon (Jezreel) and Jordan Valleys and to the lesser extent in Galilee".[3] The migration affected Palestine in many ways, including economically, socially, and politically.

    In the first half of the 19th century, no foreigners were allowed to purchase land in Palestine. This was official Turkish policy until 1856 and in practice until 1867.[4] When it came to the national aspirations of the Zionist movement, the Ottoman Empire opposed the idea of Jewish self-rule in Palestine, fearing it may lose control of Palestine after recently having lost other territories to various European powers. It also took issue with the Jews, as many came from Russia which sought the empire's demise.[5] In 1881 the Porte decreed that Jews could settle anywhere except in Palestine and from 1882 until their defeat in 1918, the Ottomans continuously restricted Jewish immigration and land purchases in Palestine.[5] In 1882, Jews were banned from their Four Holy Cities and in 1891, after briefly allowing some Jewish immigration three years earlier, the Turkish rulers tried to again to close the empire to Russian Jews.[5] In 1892, the Ottoman government decided to prohibit the sale of land in Palestine to Jews, even if they were Ottoman citizens.[6] Nevertheless, during the late 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, many successful land purchases were made through organizations such as the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association (PJCA), Palestine Land Development Company and the Jewish National Fund.
    There is more at the link.




  12. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MossadAgentO View Post
    Same exact situation as how Israel got land, they bought it and gained through the Arab armies aggression provocations with the Israel.(Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and i think lebanon.
    so we call it aggression now when someone defends against an invasion? ok.

    if Israel bought it and the money went to the people that "lived" there then i see a big problem here. otherwise, it's wrong for someone to invade, deprive of freedoms, healthcare, food, water, electricity, sovereignty and economy of a group of people.

    who did that money go to? did everyone sign a contract willing to give up the land? i'd love to see those records sir!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Thanks Vulgotha. And I have to agree with pretty much everything that you've pointed out. My only contention is that I think Israel should be dissolved and the surrounding nations be allowed to reacquire said lost territories. At some point, the cost of the "Might Makes Right" foreign policy has to be revisited. The dissolution of Israel, (note MossadAgent0, this doesn't mean the genocide of the Jews, so you may as well get that thought out of your head) would go a long way towards easing tensions with the rest of the Middle East.

    I do think that Saudi Arabia should be punished. Their constant duplicity and antagonism towards the rest of their neighbors is criminal and the country should be dealt with, punitively and decisively. (My personal opinion)
    They can try lol but Israel is the better army. Do you think/expect the Israelis will just get up and leave their biblical homeland just because the arab armies can't take it by force? Just look at the 6 day war. Thats why Iran cant get nukes, nor any terrorist org. or radical country.


    And the fact that Palestinians are depressed... Really a First World problem to have.Most of the world is depressed. The US is known as the prozac nation. Why cant they take meds. Somehow i think its more depressing to be gay/lesbian in muslim countries... forget depressing they will get murdered!
    PALESTINIAN 12 year old JAILED for being gay by the Palestinian Authority fleas to israel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUwmT0eJi9U
    Last edited by MossadAgentO; 08-06-2013 at 21:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MossadAgentO View Post
    They can try lol but Israel is the better army. Do you think/expect the Israelis will just get up and leave their biblical homeland just because the arab armies can't take it by force? Just look at the 6 day war. Thats why Iran cant get nukes, nor any terrorist org. or radical country.
    here comes the might and power trip. total justice!

    And the fact that Palestinians are depressed... Most of the world is depressed. The US is known as the prozac nation. Why cant they take meds. Somehow i think its more depressing to be gay/lesbian in muslim countries... forget depressing they will get murdered!
    PALESTINIAN 12 year old JAILED for being gay by the Palestinian Authority fleas to israel

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUwmT0eJi9U
    i love how you handled that lol. that resolves that mystery. they must all be gay.

    like i said earlier, you're being baited by the few that control everything.

    you're not helping anyone by being this way, not even your own people.

    walk back a little and look at things without the idea of power, greed and fascism.

    start looking at everyone as one people and you will have the solution.
    Last edited by Omar; 08-06-2013 at 21:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    here comes the might and power trip. total justice!


    i love how you handled that lol. that resolves that mystery. they must all be gay.

    like i said earlier, you're being baited by the few that control everything.

    you're not helping anyone by being this way, not even your own people.

    walk back a little and look at things without the idea of power, greed and fascism.

    start looking at everyone as one people and you will have the solution.
    The final solution? lol i'm just joking

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    i had to look at it a couple of times but i finally got it. see, we're not so different, are we? you're jewish! I'm muslim! I got the joke! there's nothing else to fight about.

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    Israel does have a good army- but they manage to have one entirely because of US funding and giving them military equipment. Let's not try and say that, by themselves, they've done everything. Faaaaaar from it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Israel does have a good army- but they manage to have one entirely because of US funding and giving them military equipment. Let's not try and say that, by themselves, they've done everything. Faaaaaar from it.
    Israel has a first rate military but it's mostly because the U.S. has funded it. They've also done very well developing their own gear but it's mostly done with U.S. funding.

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    israel has some good $#@!, they create a lot of their own stuff and i think they have their own martial arts too. sort of like russia...but russia is a big mother$#@!. they've pretty much changed the face of warfare with their inventions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    israel has some good $#@!, they create a lot of their own stuff and i think they have their own martial arts too. sort of like russia...but russia is a big mother$#@!. they've pretty much changed the face of warfare with their inventions.
    Israel developed (I think) martial art called Krav Maga, which is considered to be one of the most deadliest of all martial arts, as its moves are focusing on terminating your opponent. However if someone who knows more about it should say if I got something wrong here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    Israel developed (I think) martial art called Krav Maga, which is considered to be one of the most deadliest of all martial arts, as its moves are focusing on terminating your opponent. However if someone who knows more about it should say if I got something wrong here.
    It was developed in Jewish ghetto's circa WW2.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    israel has some good $#@!, they create a lot of their own stuff and i think they have their own martial arts too. sort of like russia...but russia is a big mother$#@!. they've pretty much changed the face of warfare with their inventions.
    Israel also invented the US and israeli and other countries air forces high tech visor interface used in the helmet. I think if you look somewhere you can aim in that direction in combination with the joystick.

    Also the iron dome which the US might buy to protect US military bases in iraq and afghanistan. Dont know why US cities dont missile and rocket defense. Only the white house has it probally and maybe the pentagon

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    Quote Originally Posted by MossadAgentO View Post
    Israel also invented the US and israeli and other countries air forces high tech visor interface used in the helmet. I think if you look somewhere you can aim in that direction in combination with the joystick.

    Also the iron dome which the US might buy to protect US military bases in iraq and afghanistan. Dont know why US cities dont missile and rocket defense. Only the white house has it probally and maybe the pentagon
    because there's no way US could get attacked. Canada or Mexico would have to willingly let that happen. unlike Pakistan "willingly" let that happen to Afghanistan lol. and now Pakistanis wonder why Taliban is attacking them. there's also waziristan that goes unnoticed.

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    US could get attacked via South America or even by cargo ships with a nuke in it

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    if they can come up with the money to do it I kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MossadAgentO View Post
    US could get attacked via South America or even by cargo ships with a nuke in it
    Yeah?


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    And to answer the question, Israel should give Palestinians a piece of land and $#@! off.
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