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    The Middle East Problem.

    The Middle East Problem - Prager University
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hTOaRu7h4

    I believe the muslims should recognize and realize that the Jewish State of Israel has the right to exist. The palestinians were offered 97% of the west bank , western jerusalem, and gaza to them twice. They refused the deal in 1948 and 2000 camp david accords when Bill Clinton was president. They want all of Israel no question about that. Did you know the Qur'an never mentioned Israel or Palestine or Jerusalem even once? The bible mentioned Israel,Israelites, and Jerusalem over 600 times. Can anyone explain that?(seriously)

    I'm really curious to have a reasonable non heated debates/arguments that are spoken well and within reason.

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    The Palestinian territories aren't even a contiguous land mass at this point and you wonder why people are launching rockets into your backyard?

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    So who was in israel before the palestinians? There was always a jewish presence in the holy land. Should the U.S.A withdraw from the occupied territories?

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    Perhaps Israel will come lend it's military might to take back America from it's unrightful non-Native American invaders?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MossadAgentO View Post
    The Middle East Problem - Prager University
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hTOaRu7h4

    I believe the muslims should recognize and realize that the Jewish State of Israel has the right to exist. The palestinians were offered 97% of the west bank , western jerusalem, and gaza to them twice. They refused the deal in 1948 and 2000 camp david accords when Bill Clinton was president. They want all of Israel no question about that. Did you know the Qur'an never mentioned Israel or Palestine or Jerusalem even once? The bible mentioned Israel,Israelites, and Jerusalem over 600 times. Can anyone explain that?(seriously)

    I'm really curious to have a reasonable non heated debates/arguments that are spoken well and within reason.
    The Quran mentions Bani Israel (Children of Israel) and the Golden Mosque (Masjid Al-Aqsa) many times. I don't know where you got that from.
    Last edited by Itachi; 08-05-2013 at 04:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    The Quran mentions Bani Israel (Children of Israel) and the Golden Mosque (Masjid Al-Aqsa) many times. I don't know where you got that from.
    Sorry to do this but can you find a source of the dome of the rock or golden mosque in the quran?

    Edit: I found this which says its B.S.
    e. sura 17 :1 says Muhammad went to the "farthest Mosque" during his journey by night (the Mi'raj), which Muslims explain was the Dome of the Rock mosque, in Jerusalem. But there was no mosque in Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad, and the Dome of the Rock was not built until 690 C.E., by the Amir 'Abd al Malik, a full 58 years after Muhammad's death! There was not even a temple in existence at that time. The temple of Jerusalem had been destroyed by Titus 570 years before this vision. So what was this mosque Muhammad supposedly saw?
    Last edited by MossadAgentO; 08-05-2013 at 05:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post


    The Palestinian territories aren't even a contiguous land mass at this point and you wonder why people are launching rockets into your backyard?
    Yes, the Middle East was created in 1946, and the Earth is 4000 years old...

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    This is not gonna end well. I think this thread should be closed.




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    Quote Originally Posted by MossadAgentO View Post
    Sorry to do this but can you find a source of the dome of the rock or golden mosque in the quran?

    Edit: I found this which says its B.S.
    e. sura 17 :1 says Muhammad went to the "farthest Mosque" during his journey by night (the Mi'raj), which Muslims explain was the Dome of the Rock mosque, in Jerusalem. But there was no mosque in Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad, and the Dome of the Rock was not built until 690 C.E., by the Amir 'Abd al Malik, a full 58 years after Muhammad's death! There was not even a temple in existence at that time. The temple of Jerusalem had been destroyed by Titus 570 years before this vision. So what was this mosque Muhammad supposedly saw?
    You are correct that the Dome we see today wasn't constructed until much later by the caliphs. The mosque is different from the Golden Dome
    They are nearby but not the same



    So I guess there won't be a direct quote of the Golden Mosque because it wasn't even built yet. Only Al Aqsa. I don't know much about this subject though so I'll shut up before I relay false info without researching it
    Last edited by Itachi; 08-05-2013 at 07:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brebaz View Post
    This is not gonna end well. I think this thread should be closed.
    I dont see why we cant have a simple discussion.

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    I could careless what happens. Its humans killing humans, and no country should waste money assisting either side. Religion will be the death of the human race...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captobvious75 View Post
    I could careless what happens. Its humans killing humans, and no country should waste money assisting either side. Religion will be the death of the human race...
    If religion is gone tomorrow, will we live in a utopia where no human will ever fight another?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captobvious75 View Post
    I could careless what happens. Its humans killing humans, and no country should waste money assisting either side. Religion will be the death of the human race...
    So i guess Atheists are so peacefull and dont kill?



    Canada: 'Al Quds Day' Speaker Calls for Israelis to be Killed

    Elias Hazineh, former president of "Palestine House," calls for Israelis to be given a 2-minute warning to leave their homes "or be shot."

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...8#.UgCqWG0glNQ

    The former president of "Palestine House," a Canadian NGO accused by the government of showing a "pattern of support for extremism," has called for the forced ethnic-cleansing of all Israelis Saturday.

    In the video below, Elias Hazineh can be seen addressing a crowd of anti-Israel activists in Toronto during the annual Al Quds Day march.

    "We have to give them an ultimatum," he said of Israelis, "you have to leave Jerusalem; you have to leave Palestine..."

    But Hazineh did not stop there. Dismissing negotiations, he called for the forced ethnic-cleansing of Israeli Jews as a solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict:

    "We say get out or you're dead. We give them two minutes and then we start shooting! And that's the only way they'll understand."

    Nearly one million Jews were ethnically-cleansed from Arab states following the establishment of Israel, and today make up around half of the entire Israeli population.

    Elias finished his speech by calling for war against the Jewish State.

    "I am reminded of this verse from the Quran: 'And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and steeds of war' - that's the only thing that they'll understand!"

    Al-Quds Day has been marked annually around the world since 1979, when it was established by Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini to express support for “the liberation of Jerusalem" by Muslim forces and to call for the destruction of the State of Israel.

    This year's gathering saw a mixture of around 300 Shi'a Islamists, radical leftists, and a small group of Neturei Karta activists, who were apparently unfazed by the event taking place on Shabbat (the Jewish Sabbath).

    Demonstrators proudly waved the flags of Iranian, Syrian and Hizbullah flags, alongside pictures of Ayatollah Khomeini.

    The annual rally took place north of the Ontario parliament building this year, after the provincial government rejected a request by the organizers to hold it in front of the parliament building itself, as they had done in previous years.

    Sunni Muslims apparently boycotted the rally, most probably due to the war crimes carried out by the Assad regime of Syria with the full military support of Iran and their Lebanese proxies Hizbullah, against the largely Sunni opposition there.
    Everyone knows that the "Palestinians" want all of Israel. If Israel ever was accused of ethnic cleansing then why are there 1.4 million Israeli Arabs in Israel not including the west bank/gaza; but no Jews in any Muslim country? Why weren't they "ethnically cleansed already? This has to be the slowest "genocide" in the world where life expectancy of Palestinains has gone UP from age 45 in 1948 to age around 75- 85 in 2012
    Last edited by MossadAgentO; 08-06-2013 at 09:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MossadAgentO View Post
    So who was in israel before the palestinians? There was always a jewish presence in the holy land. Should the U.S.A withdraw from the occupied territories?
    Big problem with your logic but nothing new considering it's you. Most of the United States territory was gained fair and square though some of it was gained through provocations with then established powers.

    1. The Louisiana Purchase was a fair exchange in that Napoleon Bonaparte needed money to finance his war against Great Britain and further saw it as sticking it to the British by essentially doubling America's territory.

    2. The Florida Purchase was a fair trade deal made with Spain in exchange for a small portion of the then Louisiana territory. During this time, Spain also surrendered the Oregon Country through the Adams-Oris Treaty.

    3. My only contention is the acquisition of parts of then Mexico wherein The United States provoked Mexico into the Mexican-American War. Texas was entered into the US fair and square when it first declared its independence from Mexico and then formally applied for and received statehood status within the United States. Following Mexico's defeat and near destruction, America did get the southwest territories as per a treaty with Mexico and Mexico received a lot of money to get its financial house in order.

    4. The natives lost out mainly because in times of war, they were on the losing side. Such is the case with the Revolutionary War, War Of 1812 and Mexican-American War. While I'll never approve of dislocation of a people or genocide, (as is the case with the Iroquois but kinda brought on themselves with their constant raids) regardless of the circumstances and events, the borders of the Contiguous United States has been set for roughly 141-164 years with very few irregularities. The border squabbles are few and far between and are constantly being dealt with diplomatically.

    Can Israel say the same? It's very reformation in 1947 was built on the confiscation of lands of other established nation states. It gained a lot of territory through a couple of its preemptive acts of aggression, effectively stealing land from various nations. If you want to make a case of Israel having a right to exist because it was there before, I'll make the case for Iran, formally known as the Persian Empire having rights to the bulk of the Middle East because it was formed prior to that of just about every other Middle Eastern nation, including Israel.

    And guess what? Israel with its Judaism religion, the Arabs and Muslim religion of Islam and Christianity are all succession religions of an older religion known as Zoroastrianism.

    By the way, you can thank the Assyrians for the destruction of ancient Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Perhaps Israel will come lend it's military might to take back America from it's unrightful non-Native American invaders?
    Something to consider, though (as much as I dislike the Israeli's, and Palestinians for that matter) no group has a 'claim' to land. Before the palestinians settled there, it was wrestled by force from some other population. Same thing before them.

    Unless there was literally no one else there before (like Native Americans in US), nobody can say "we were here first". Might makes right, historically.


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    why all religion threads have to be about islam



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    Quote Originally Posted by -Dj- View Post
    why all religion threads have to be about islam
    because it's the worst religion in the universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Something to consider, though (as much as I dislike the Israeli's, and Palestinians for that matter) no group has a 'claim' to land. Before the palestinians settled there, it was wrestled by force from some other population. Same thing before them.

    Unless there was literally no one else there before (like Native Americans in US), nobody can say "we were here first". Might makes right, historically.
    yup, i totally agree but also there's never been anyone in the history of mankind that did not resist to the fullest of occupiers.

    you have to either be fair or you have to wipe them all out. you can't keep your knee on someone's throat and not expect them to react.
    Last edited by Omar; 08-06-2013 at 15:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    because it's the worst religion in the universe.
    i can think alot worst religions then islam



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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    If religion is gone tomorrow, will we live in a utopia where no human will ever fight another?
    People will always find a reason to fight, but if religion never existed we would probably have a much more prosperous world at this point...look back in history and see how many people have died because of religion...



    I swear, I am going to go buy one of these wallets and send it to Neil DeGrasse Tyson because he truly is a Bad Mother $#@!er!


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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    People will always find a reason to fight, but if religion never existed we would probably have a much more prosperous world at this point...look back in history and see how many people have died because of religion...
    That's the thing, I feel religion can never NOT exist because its born from what people believe in, and people will always believe in something. The conflict part comes from the disagreement over that something or just disrespecting the rights or beliefs of people. As long as people have free will and a working mind, disagreements will occur and will sometimes escalate.

    At the same time people need to accept the fact that the world is huge with all sorts of people and that there will be times where they will not see eye to eye with you. In that case its up to you to decide how to approach the problem
    Last edited by Itachi; 08-06-2013 at 16:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by itachi73378 View Post
    That's the thing, I feel religion can never NOT exist because its born from what people believe in, and people will always believe in something. The conflict part comes from the disagreement over that something or just disrespecting the rights or beliefs of people. As long as people have free will and a working mind, disagreements will occur and will sometimes escalate.

    At the same time people need to accept the fact that the world is huge with all sorts of people and that there will be times where they will not see eye to eye with you. In that case its up to you to decide how to approach the problem
    Many people don't believe in anything (like myself), thus atheism. I don't care what other people believe as long as they are trying to push their beliefs on me, I have friends that are all over the religious map, but we respect each other, I don't push my atheism on them and they don't push their religions on me.

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    there's no reason to believe that one day if religion stops to exist that people will still not act like what human beings normally do.

    destruction is part of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw View Post
    Many people don't believe in anything (like myself), thus atheism. I don't care what other people believe as long as they are trying to push their beliefs on me, I have friends that are all over the religious map, but we respect each other, I don't push my atheism on them and they don't push their religions on me.
    I didn't mean "something" to be divine entity in that sentence, but rather anything at all; an idea, a concept etc.
    Point was that conflict doesn't depend on the particular 'something' but on the differences between people

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