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    Xbox Oneís strengths and weaknesses, through the eyes of Zumbaís developers

    http://venturebeat.com/2013/08/16/xb...gG7SDAwsMqV.99

    The system is very quick,” said Ray. “Not just [CPU] clock speed but the interface and the whole experience of kicking something in to play. At first it’s not noticeable, but when you go back to any other platform and realize how much time is wasted waiting for this or that, it’s just brutal. The Xbox One is frictionless for getting into a game.”


    With Kinect 2.0, there’s an unbelievable amount of power under the hood. It’s ridiculously low latency. It has a much better view area — it seems to work in every room we’ve tested no matter how small. It’s impervious to sunny windows or unlit rooms at night. The skeletal data is a bit better.”
    Last edited by The Sith; 08-17-2013 at 13:01.

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    Itís ridiculously low latency.
    that doesn't tie in with the "Kinect is like a zero-button mouse with a lot of latency on it." that John Carmack reported on.

    unless Carmack was talking "old" kinect? but i'm sure to find out soon enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    that doesn't tie in with the "Kinect is like a zero-button mouse with a lot of latency on it." that John Carmack reported on.

    unless Carmack was talking "old" kinect? but i'm sure to find out soon enough.
    Kinect had a latency of ~100ms at best, and usually sat at ~300ms. Kinect 2.0 will be ~60ms at best, 100ms+ on average.
    the 360 controller sat at ~60-200ms, the new controller is looking at ~45ms at best.

    for comparisons sake, a normal wired mouse sits at ~20ms.

    time to render a single frame @ 60fps is 14ms or something. @30fps is 33ms or there abouts.

    Kinect has plenty of latency
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    Kinect had a latency of ~100ms at best, and usually sat at ~300ms. Kinect 2.0 will be ~60ms at best, 100ms+ on average.
    the 360 controller sat at ~60-200ms, the new controller is looking at ~45ms at best.

    for comparisons sake, a normal wired mouse sits at ~20ms.

    time to render a single frame @ 60fps is 14ms or something. @30fps is 33ms or there abouts.

    Kinect has plenty of latency

    I don't know about that. The thing is that it isn't as noticeable as the first kinect. From what i've seen it's a huge improvement. The thing even works in complete darkness and the voice detection has improved. It can even detect your voice over other loud noises in the room.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I don't know about that. The thing is that it isn't as noticeable as the first kinect. From what i've seen it's a huge improvement. The thing even works in complete darkness and the voice detection has improved. It can even detect your voice over other loud noises in the room.

    infrared tends to work like that
    much in the same way Radio waves don't "see" walls.

    but yeah, Kinect 2.0 is a definite improvement, still not viable for 'gaming' imo, but much better then the original kinect. at its best kinect shouldn't be noticeable (@ ~60ms) but the latency will be well above that (maybe 150-200ms for most games???) and that will be noticeable.

    personally, im never forgoing an actual controller in favour of flailing my arms around, and i imagine its something many core gamers share.
    the investment on kinect seems very disproportionate to the number of people who would care to use it....but i digress.

    what i want to know is how they intend to solve the issue of someone rage quitting via "XBOX OFF!!!!". surely that'll switch everybodies XB off who was in the game?
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    Xbox Oneís weaknesses


    being undecided and not listen to the gamer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    personally, im never forgoing an actual controller in favour of flailing my arms around, and i imagine its something many core gamers share.
    but that has to be a moot point. it's not about you not wanting to flail you arms around. it's about showing what it can do for those who have a interest in using it. no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    the investment on kinect seems very disproportionate to the number of people who would care to use it....but i digress.
    i guess £ for £ against the investment in the joypad would suggest other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    what i want to know is how they intend to solve the issue of someone rage quitting via "XBOX OFF!!!!". surely that'll switch everybodies XB off who was in the game?
    good point. but if the online part runs independently of the users playing them. would there be a host quiting problem anymore? or am i misunderstanding your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    Xbox One’s weaknesses


    being undecided and not listen to the gamer
    really, thats your reply. trying to find fault with MS again... ffs.

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    Why a dislike on my post.. When it was and still is fact

    That MS/XBOX ONE weakness is totally on UNDECIDED AND NOT LISTEN TO FANS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    infrared tends to work like that
    much in the same way Radio waves don't "see" walls.

    but yeah, Kinect 2.0 is a definite improvement, still not viable for 'gaming' imo, but much better then the original kinect. at its best kinect shouldn't be noticeable (@ ~60ms) but the latency will be well above that (maybe 150-200ms for most games???) and that will be noticeable.

    personally, im never forgoing an actual controller in favour of flailing my arms around, and i imagine its something many core gamers share.
    the investment on kinect seems very disproportionate to the number of people who would care to use it....but i digress.

    what i want to know is how they intend to solve the issue of someone rage quitting via "XBOX OFF!!!!". surely that'll switch everybodies XB off who was in the game?
    yea but it doesn't mean that every game will have you flailing your arms around. There are different ways it can support games. You can still use the controller and still have kinect support. As far as how much lag it will have, that will be up to the developers. So far the reaction to it's performance has been positive overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    really, thats your reply. trying to find fault with MS again... ffs.
    Yes.. But the facts are clear to see... We all seen this from the release of the XBOX-ONE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    really, thats your reply. trying to find fault with MS again... ffs.
    making the rounds again,bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    making the rounds again,bro.
    Copy/paste your whining? Classic. Hurry, you forgot "if they said that about SONY"

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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    Copy/paste your whining? Classic. Hurry, you forgot "if they said that about SONY"

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    Classic. yep, there it is.

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    [Lets not take the derailment further, kay? ]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    but that has to be a moot point. it's not about you not wanting to flail you arms around. it's about showing what it can do for those who have a interest in using it. no?
    technically, its more about finding the correct audience. so far, MS hasn't done that with the kinect. the Wii was a toy, it wasn't accurate so there was little skill the the games, anyone could pick it up and be good.

    Kinect is all about finesse, and even more so with kinect 2.0. the appeal of the kinect seems very niche. ie, sports fitness games, dance games, etc.

    the appeal to the core adopters (us here), doesn't seem that great.

    i guess £ for £ against the investment in the joypad would suggest other.
    i may have recalled incorrectly, but MS spent hundreds of millions (if not a few billion) developing the tech for kinect. the game pad was simply an evolution of interacting. up, down, left, right etc. and the gameboy pioneered the D-pad if im not mistaken and that thing wasn't exactly cutting edge

    good point. but if the online part runs independently of the users playing them. would there be a host quiting problem anymore? or am i misunderstanding your point?
    not exactly, im talking about the kinect being used as the default microphone.

    if the kinect is the default microphone, then it stands to reason that the TV/HiFi speakers would be the default output for every player in a match.

    so if a 'disgruntled' player were to scream "XBOX OFF!!!" into his kinect, that would get sent to everybody playing the game, which would output through their TV/Hifi speakers. the result being, 32-64 people being dropped from a match due to some newb

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    yea but it doesn't mean that every game will have you flailing your arms around. There are different ways it can support games. You can still use the controller and still have kinect support. As far as how much lag it will have, that will be up to the developers. So far the reaction to it's performance has been positive overall.
    i wouldn't say its caught on if im being honest, some of the lowest scoring 360 games are kinect exclusive.

    and then there's the hardcore implementation:
    http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-...on-heavy-armor
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 08-17-2013 at 17:32.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post


    i wouldn't say its caught on if im being honest, some of the lowest scoring 360 games are kinect exclusive.

    and then there's the hardcore implementation:
    http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-...on-heavy-armor
    So what, crappy games are crappy games. We will get those regardless of the tech:

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays.../kung-fu-rider



    It's about how the developers utilize it with their games. Kinect will obviously be better for some things than others. I'm more interested in how they are using it to go along with the core games and the NUI with xbox. I really don't care if they didn't make another Kinect only game. I don't buy those games for myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    So what, crappy games are crappy games. We will get those regardless of the tech:

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays.../kung-fu-rider



    It's about how the developers utilize it with their games. Kinect will obviously be better for some things than others. I'm more interested in how they are using it to go along with the core games and the NUI with xbox. I really don't care if they didn't make another Kinect only game. I don't buy those games for myself.
    that's not very hardcore game though, this would be more suitable a comparison:
    http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...ght-lights-out

    personally, never liked the move either. but at least it had buttons

    but that second point. what can kinect really do to augment how you play? Sony took the initiative and added a touchpad to the DS4. and not to drag this into a comparison debate, peoples thumbs can do on that what which requires entire arm movements on the kinect....and the fact that doing that is slower then a traditional controller makes it all the more redundant for the core gamer.
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 08-17-2013 at 18:07.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    that's not very hardcore game though, this would be more suitable a comparison:
    http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...ght-lights-out

    personally, never liked the move either. but at least it had buttons

    but that second point. what can kinect really do to augment how you play? Sony took the initiative and added a touchpad to the DS4. and not to drag this into a comparison debate, peoples thumbs can do on that what which requires entire arm movements on the kinect....and the fact that doing that is slower then a traditional controller makes it all the more redundant for the core gamer.
    Come on man , you are comparing a touch pad to something that track the individual limbs of multiple people...lol It's cool that they did that but not all that innovative IMO.


    as for the link, i posted that link just to show that you can have good technology but you are still gonna get $#@!ty games. yes, the move had buttons but did it still matter much? No it didn't. We still got $#@!ty move games as well. Kinect can be used with the core gaming experience that adds certain things to gameplay. Things we have never really done before on a console.

    Even though Move had buttons and was supposedly more accurate, it still had lackluster support in games developed specifically for it. It never caught on with the core as well. Not the way it should have having the advantage of buttons and being more accurate.

    IMO Kinect is something totally different from PS move because it removes the buttons and allows more interactivity. Move is just an extension of a controller and that's why I think devs just weren't interested in supporting the device because it's really not all that different than a controller. Kinect is a real 3d sensing cam that tracks individual limbs, and with the improved kinect 2, does a lot more now. The two devices are more different than alike. I think MS vision for kinect goes far beyond the games. I like the technology for what it is. It's not gonna replace traditional gaming, but it can enhance gameplay and that is fine by me. I like that kinect is part of the experience and it's one of the reasons I choose xbox. I like the fact that MS are coming up with those innovative ways to interact with games and other experiences. Some people don't, but I would much rater have that kind of user experience with my xbox than without it.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 08-17-2013 at 18:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    personally, im never forgoing an actual controller in favour of flailing my arms around, and i imagine its something many core gamers share.
    Man, you still miss the point. MS is not aiming towards hardcore gamers. They are after TV&GAME casuals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    [Lets not take the derailment further, kay? ] technically, its more about finding the correct audience. so far, MS hasn't done that with the kinect. the Wii was a toy, it wasn't accurate so there was little skill the the games, anyone could pick it up and be good. Kinect is all about finesse, and even more so with kinect 2.0. the appeal of the kinect seems very niche. ie, sports fitness games, dance games, etc. the appeal to the core adopters (us here), doesn't seem that great. i may have recalled incorrectly, but MS spent hundreds of millions (if not a few billion) developing the tech for kinect. the game pad was simply an evolution of interacting. up, down, left, right etc. and the gameboy pioneered the D-pad if im not mistaken and that thing wasn't exactly cutting edge not exactly, im talking about the kinect being used as the default microphone. if the kinect is the default microphone, then it stands to reason that the TV/HiFi speakers would be the default output for every player in a match. so if a 'disgruntled' player were to scream "XBOX OFF!!!" into his kinect, that would get sent to everybody playing the game, which would output through their TV/Hifi speakers. the result being, 32-64 people being dropped from a match due to some newb i wouldn't say its caught on if im being honest, some of the lowest scoring 360 games are kinect exclusive. and then there's the hardcore implementation: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-...on-heavy-armor
    Yep Fable The Journey did poorly as well. http://gamer.blorge.com/2012/10/16/l...urney-reviews/ MS seems to have been pretty unsuccessful with their few attempts at core game implementation of Kinect.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 08-17-2013 at 18:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shingo View Post
    Man, you still miss the point. MS is not aiming towards hardcore gamers. They are after TV&GAME casuals.
    Yes, they are after that group because the core gamers are gonna always be there. It's not bad idea. Consoles have evolved and gaming isn't just about what the core want's. MS isn't alone in their courting of casuals, that's for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Yep Fable The Journey did poorly as well. http://gamer.blorge.com/2012/10/16/l...urney-reviews/ MS seems to have been pretty unsuccessful with their few attempts at core game implementation of Kinect.
    they were successful enough though. That's what counts. Games will do poorly regardless. No doubt kinect 2 will be better implemented though.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 08-17-2013 at 18:56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shingo View Post
    Man, you still miss the point. MS is not aiming towards hardcore gamers. They are after TV&GAME casuals.
    i said they didn't have their core market. i used the hardcore as an example of the tech simply not catching on.

    as i said above, Wii (the casuals) was a success because it was simple. it was inaccurate and required little skill. Kinect is a precise piece of tech aimed at who? one of the kinect ads that simply did my head in was one where that one kid copied his skateboard and then preceded to ride it in game.....as opposed to taking is already real to life skateboard and actually riding it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    i posted that link just to show that you can have good technology but you are still gonna get $#@!ty games. yes, the move had buttons but did it still matter much? No it didn't. We still got $#@!ty move games as well. Kinect can be used with the core gaming experience that adds certain things to gameplay. Things we have never really done before.

    Even though Move had buttons and was supposedly more accurate, it still had lackluster support in games developed specifically for it. It never caught on with the core as well. Not the way it should have having the advantage of buttons and being more accurate.

    IMO Kinect is something totally different from PS move because it removes the buttons and allows more interactivity. Move is just an extension of a controller and that's why I think devs just weren't interested in supporting the device because it's really not all that different than a controller. Kinect is a real 3d sensing cam that tracks individual limbs, and with the improved kinect 2, does a lot more now. The two devices are more different than alike. I think MS vision for kinect goes far beyond the games. I like the technology for what it is. It's not gonna replace traditional gaming, but it can enhance gameplay and that is fine by me. I like that kinect is part of the experience and it's one of the reasons I choose xbox. I like the fact that MS are coming up with those innovative ways to interact with games and other experiences. Some people don't, but I would much rater have that kind of user experience with my xbox than without it.
    see, that is where i find it gimmicky (and the Move too of course).

    interactive in what way? kinect requires that you move around for it to sense you. in the case of dance games, if i wanted to dance i could go out to the clubs and dance (not that i like dancing mind you).

    if i could mirror John Carmack, he said that the tech would be more useful when it was even more precise then it is now; so when it can detect your individual fingers. there i see the uses for a VERY large amount of applications. you could personalise your baseball teams with your own indicators to your pitcher by simply using your fingers. on the desktop, it could simply track the users single finger, negating the need to move ones arm.

    Kinect, doesn't really have a market. its too slow to be accepted by the hardcore. and too precise that it creates a barrier for the casual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Yes, they are after that group because the core gamers are gonna always be there. It's not bad idea. Consoles have evolved and gaming isn't just about what the core want's. MS isn't alone in their courting of casuals, that's for sure. they were successful enough though. That's what counts. Games will do poorly regardless. No doubt kinect 2 will be better implemented though.
    Successful enough how? Maybe with the casuals but certainly not with their core game implementation of Kinect. Not even with a high profile IP like Fable.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 08-17-2013 at 19:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    i said they didn't have their core market. i used the hardcore as an example of the tech simply not catching on.

    as i said above, Wii (the casuals) was a success because it was simple. it was inaccurate and required little skill. Kinect is a precise piece of tech aimed at who? one of the kinect ads that simply did my head in was one where that one kid copied his skateboard and then preceded to ride it in game.....as opposed to taking is already real to life skateboard and actually riding it?


    see, that is where i find it gimmicky (and the Move too of course).

    interactive in what way? kinect requires that you move around for it to sense you. in the case of dance games, if i wanted to dance i could go out to the clubs and dance (not that i like dancing mind you).

    if i could mirror John Carmack, he said that the tech would be more useful when it was even more precise then it is now; so when it can detect your individual fingers. there i see the uses for a VERY large amount of applications. you could personalise your baseball teams with your own indicators to your pitcher by simply using your fingers. on the desktop, it could simply track the users single finger, negating the need to move ones arm.

    Kinect, doesn't really have a market. its too slow to be accepted by the hardcore. and too precise that it creates a barrier for the casual.
    Kinect 2 can detect your individual fingers, like the first one, but only better. You obviously didn't watch the video I posted....lol It can also do full 3d face scanning as well as track multiple people, and you don't have to move around for it to detect you. It may not be for everyone but the technology is pretty amazing whether you like it or not and it does have a market/audience. The thing did sell over 20million.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Successful enough how? Maybe with the casuals but certainly not with their core game implementation of Kinect. Not even with a high profile IP like Fable.
    So much for me being on your ignore list....lol But anyway:

    20 million sold and the worlds record for the fastest selling consumer electronic device . Sold over 8 million in 2 months which was actually better than iphone and ipad launches. You may not like it but that's success. It doesn't matter if it was for casuals. I can assure you that their money has the same value as the core gamers money. More successful than move which supposedly targeted the core but was never used in a meaningful way and had very little support for original games.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 08-17-2013 at 22:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    not exactly, im talking about the kinect being used as the default microphone.

    if the kinect is the default microphone, then it stands to reason that the TV/HiFi speakers would be the default output for every player in a match.

    so if a 'disgruntled' player were to scream "XBOX OFF!!!" into his kinect, that would get sent to everybody playing the game, which would output through their TV/Hifi speakers. the result being, 32-64 people being dropped from a match due to some newb
    ah... right.

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