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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Wrong. This was Mark Diana at Gamescom.
    A marketing PR guys Via German interpretation

    Truth is if it was fully HUMA compliant, it would break the PS4. You dont want 176gb/s bottle necked by 20gb/s memory access.

    It has its work around, and clearly as we have read already it can wall of shared memory, but it's at the expense of the 176gb/s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    The guy at gamescom lied his ass off.
    Then there will certainly be a redaction.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    The guy at gamescom lied his ass off.
    I don't think anyone can win an argument against you. You are debate team material!

    Other team LIES! I end my case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainZ View Post
    I don't think anyone can win an argument against you. You are debate team material!

    Other team LIES! I end my case.
    It doesn't look like he's winning from the outside.

    Whether this is the truths or lies, sooner or later somethings going to come out to substantiate or correct this.
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    For goodness sake I hope nobody thinks to start labelling the console an Xbrick,
    oops
    -Regarding the Xbone A.K.A. the Xbrick

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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    A marketing PR guys Via German interpretation

    Truth is if it was fully HUMA compliant, it would break the PS4. You dont want 176gb/s bottle necked by 20gb/s memory access.

    It has its work around, and clearly as we have read already it can wall of shared memory, but it's at the expense of the 176gb/s.
    isn't this:



    similar to this though?:


    PS4 also has virtual memory, i believe you were discussing it in another thread if im not mistaken.

    im not that tech savvy, how would 20GB/s be the bottleneck (please use small words )
    Sig courtesy of the_jim


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    The PS4 has untold power. Only Sony's elite first party developers will unlock it.


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  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    isn't this:



    similar to this though?:


    PS4 also has virtual memory, i believe you were discussing it in another thread if im not mistaken.

    im not that tech savvy, how would 20GB/s be the bottleneck (please use small words )
    Not quite, the PS4 doesn't have a direct line between the memory and GPU. It goes via the CPU is my understanding.

    In other words that 1st line between GPU and memory doesn't exsist.

    In other words, the 176gb is not part of that triangle.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-22-2013 at 04:29.

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    Contributors
















    http://hsafoundation.com/
    More fuel to the fire.

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  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Contributors
















    http://hsafoundation.com/
    More fuel to the fire.
    Hardware manufacturers are hardware manufactures.
    HSA is ideal for low powered devices powered by ARM.
    Ideal for mobile as well.

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    lmao soo much salt coming from the usual suspects itt.

    i just feel sad and embarrassed for them

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  14. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    lmao soo much salt coming from the usual suspects itt.

    i just feel sad and embarrassed for them
    Well you cant have it both way, you cant believe in VGleaks with all your might, and not believe in VGleaks at the same time.

    http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-memory-system-overview/

    The GPU also has a coherent read/write path to the CPU’s L2 caches and to DRAM.
    Fully coherent memory access between CPU and GPU and memory on Xbox One.

    So which is it?

    Do we believe VGleaks or not? Up to you.

    But stop cherry picking.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-22-2013 at 04:48.

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  16. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Not quite, the PS4 doesn't have a direct line between the memory and GPU. It goes via the CPU is my understanding.

    In other words that 1st line between GPU and memory doesn't exsist.

    In other words, the 176gb is not part of that triangle.
    So what are you saying?

    That there is a single bus being used for the CPU and GPU?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    So what are you saying?

    That there is a single bus being used for the CPU and GPU?
    No.
    There are multiple bus's.



    Its closer to this, than the HSA ideal.
    Green line is the 176 gb/s.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-22-2013 at 04:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    No.
    There are multiple bus's.
    Ok so,

    There's the 20GB/s for the CPU to RAM, we know there is a second one between the CPU and GPU, so where does the 176GB/s go to and from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Ok so,

    There's the 20GB/s for the CPU to RAM, we know there is a second one between the CPU and GPU, so where does the 176GB/s go to and from?
    Its exclusive to the GPU and memory tagged for the GPU only.

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    Last edited by TGO; 08-22-2013 at 05:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Its exclusive to the GPU and memory tagged for the GPU only.
    Then your going to have to be more clear when you say...

    "Not quite, the PS4 doesn't have a direct line between the memory and GPU. It goes via the CPU is my understanding."

    As that infers you believing that there is no direct connection between the GPU and RAM.


    Edit:

    Also what does this then mean from the VGleaks article

    "The GPU has a direct non-coherent connection to the DRAM memory controller and to ESRAM. The GPU also has a coherent read/write path to the CPU’s L2 caches and to DRAM."

    See that to mean reads as the GPU has its own pool inside the 8GB DDR3, which the CPU can not read (or im misinterpreting what non-coherent means) but then does have bus allowing it to snoop around inside the CPU when it needs to.

    How is that different to the bus setups on the ps4?
    Last edited by Sajuuk Khar; 08-22-2013 at 05:09.

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  24. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    A marketing PR guys Via German interpretation

    Truth is if it was fully HUMA compliant, it would break the PS4. You dont want 176gb/s bottle necked by 20gb/s memory access.

    It has its work around, and clearly as we have read already it can wall of shared memory, but it's at the expense of the 176gb/s.
    I don't think that's right. I don't think that would kill the memory bandwidth.... anyways....

    But how would Huma have been an advantage for the XB1 that I believe you were saying in another thread, but kill the PS4?

    Actually, let me clarify..Yeah, it would "lower" the PS4 to 20GB/s IF you're talking only about using the pageable memory/virtual memory. But for all other functions (the majority of what you'd use it for) this simply isn't true. It just allows the GPU to see the parts of memory that it normally would have to have copied to it by the GPU. So saying this would break the PS4 just simply isn't correct.

    And the use of the ESRAM on the XB1 is one strong indicator that the XB1 does NOT support hUMA as it wouldn't need to increase the bandwidth/speed of data being copied to the GPU by the CPU if it had hUMA. Again, hUMA just lets the GPU and CPU share memory and eliminates all the copying back and forth of data between the CPU and GPU that normally happens.
    Last edited by jphuff; 08-22-2013 at 05:22.

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  26. #70
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    I'm surprised that AMD let this cat out of the bag so early.
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  27. #71
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    When it comes to this stuff, just don't listen to anyone. People can assume this or that and they can think they know it all. I'll never get into a deep discussion because no matter how wrong someone is, they'll NEVER admit to it. So far there's a lot wrong in this entire debate but that's all I'm going to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Then your going to have to be more clear when you say...

    "Not quite, the PS4 doesn't have a direct line between the memory and GPU. It goes via the CPU is my understanding."

    As that infers you believing that there is no direct connection between the GPU and RAM.
    in terms of the huma "triangle".
    Not in terms of actual bus's.
    If you look at the huma ideal, it has two bus's two from the gpu and memory.
    Edit:

    Also what does this then mean from the VGleaks article

    "The GPU has a direct non-coherent connection to the DRAM memory controller and to ESRAM. The GPU also has a coherent read/write path to the CPU’s L2 caches and to DRAM."

    See that to mean reads as the GPU has its own pool inside the 8GB DDR3, which the CPU can not read (or im misinterpreting what non-coherent means) but then does have bus allowing it to snoop around inside the CPU when it needs to.
    non coherent means it not guaranteed to be the correct data. As the correct data is in the cache.
    What that is saying is the gpu can write non-coherent to either edram or esram. This is exactly the same as the ps4's 176gb/s setup. Well i mean its treated the same.

    With Huma and hsa coherency is everything, you must be able to guarantee that the data you are working on is correct, thats why both system fetch this via the cpu cache an not directly from memory, in case the cpu as modified the data.
    How is that different to the bus setups on the ps4?
    Its not. Thats my point. Neither is huma, both are HSA compliant though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    When it comes to this stuff, just don't listen to anyone. People can assume this or that and they can think they know it all. I'll never get into a deep discussion because no matter how wrong someone is, they'll NEVER admit to it. So far there's a lot wrong in this entire debate but that's all I'm going to say.
    This story is starting to get a lot of coverage (lots of stories in the last six hours on it).

    We will know if it is true by tomorrow. I'd guarantee it. Someone is going to weigh in with as much exposure this is getting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Its exclusive to the GPU and memory tagged for the GPU only.
    I am just wondering. Is this your interpretation of how the APU system works from your perspective? I ask because the chart you provided in a previous post looks to be one of the first path lines of how the APU chipset would work. If that is the case, I am sure AMD along with several other manufacturers within the hUMA Alliance would have developed several better variations to reduce latency within the combo chip set. Also, I didn't read the thread, but you made a statement regarding that the Xbone (I do not use X1 because Comcast already has a device called the X1 that is similar to what MS tried to provide) would have hUMA but the PS4 wouldn't. What I am trying to figure out is how if they use the same architect along with Sony using a newer GPU or should I say a slightly better GPU. And on that, wouldn't the eSRAM interfere with the hUMA configuration. I may be wrong, but I am trying to piece the puzzle together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    in terms of the huma "triangle".

    Its not. Thats my point. Neither is huma, both are HSA compliant though.
    Thank you, though we shall wait and see what happens with this most recent news of the ps4 being hUMA. If it gets confirmed or retracted.

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