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  1. #51
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    The road leading up to the reveal of both the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 was a long one. With countless rumors, leaked specifications and assumptions about the hardware, many lines in the sand were drawn far before actual specifications were released.

    Today we may finally have some confirmation of what we can expect from the Xbox One and, surprise-surprise, they are very similar to what we have expected all this time. During the Hot Chips conference the performance of the Xbox One has been revealed:

    8GB Flash memory
    15 special purpose processors
    4 Command processors (2 compute, 2 graphics)
    SHAPE offloads >1 CPU core
    Memory coherency between CPU cores and GPU
    Audio offload processor custom designed by Microsoft - 1 CPU core worth of processing.
    68 GB/sec peak bandwidth to off-chip 8GB DDR3 memory.
    204 GB/s peak bandwidth to 32MB of on-die storage.
    The most important thing to note here is that the Xbox One supports shared coherent memory between 8 AMD Jaguar cores and it's DX 11.1+ GPU. This type of memory allocation could is very similar to hUMA - an architecture that was said to give the PlayStation 4 a massive advantage as per AMD.

    Be sure to check out the photo to see the system architecture yourself. In the mean time, subscribe to me here, on YouTube at YouTube/Pitmonkey and follow me on Twitter @NicholasGigante as more news comes out of the Hot Chip conference.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox...ips-conference.


    8gb of flash memory?

    I'm hearing 47mb on board memory as well. So minus the 32mb, that leaves 15mb else where. caches up the wazoo.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-26-2013 at 20:14.

  2. #52
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    A sumary.
    + Xbone SoC is Designed by MS and AMD
    + Over 5 billion transaistors
    + 363mm²
    + Modified Jaguar x86-64 cores, two clusters of 4 cores (two CPU tapped together)
    + 47MB or cache (32MB eSRAM + 15MB CPU L1 & L2 & L3 I guess)
    + HSA HUMMA Coherent Shared Memory
    + Modifications for memory sharing & bandwidth
    + Audio offload processor
    + DX11.1+ GPU
    + 264GB/s total mem bandwidth
    + 15 co processors

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    examiner? Probably a mistake. (ps3 has no scaling capabilities) if not a mistake, where the heck did they get that from? But mostly, 8gb flash, WTF?!?!?



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  4. #54
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    They really have tried to alleviate any cpu intensive tasks such as de/encoding and sound off the cpu's.
    That leaves the jaguars a little bit more powerful than they otherwise would have been.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    examiner? Probably a mistake. (ps3 has no scaling capabilities) if not a mistake, where the heck did they get that from? But mostly, 8gb flash, WTF?!?!?



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    Nope it is 8gb flash ram. Semi accurate has a slide with it. Additional to 500gb hdd. Guess thats where the os lives.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Nope it is 8gb flash ram. Semi accurate has a slide with it. Additional to 500gb hdd. Guess thats where the os lives.
    thanks, makes a lot more sense.



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  7. #57
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  8. #58
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    So, is this good? How does it compare now to the other console?

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    So in layman's terms, is this good? Will it keep the One close to the competition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    So in layman's terms, is this good? Will it keep the One close to the competition?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4
    I don't even know what all of it means but it can't be bad.

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    We have no idea, because Sony hasn't given us this much detail.
    Its certainly doing a lot of offloading to dedicated silicon, so that will give it a boost in terms of CPU.
    In terms of GPU, there are a few custom things that will help like swizzling engines which is used a lot in matrix math/gpu work.
    It has a slight clock advantage in terms of throughput as well. What that to translates in terms of GPU output, remains to be seen.
    It's really hard to tell because we don't have solid GPixel and GTexal data form Sony.

    GPU look to be honest looks like a beefed up 7870M

    You cant really take each component in isolation though, there is so much dedicated silicon, it's really hard to say. Certainly very very custom built.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-26-2013 at 21:20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    We have no idea, because Sony hasn't given us this much detail.
    Its certainly doing a lot of offloading to dedicated silicon, so that will give it a boost in terms of CPU.
    In terms of GPU, there are a few custom things that will help like swizzling engines which is used a lot in matrix math/gpu work.
    It has a slight clock advantage in terms of throughput as well. What that to translates in terms of GPU output, remains to be seen.
    It's really hard to tell because we don't have solid GPixel and GTexal data form Sony.

    GPU look to be honest looks like a beefed up 7870M

    You cant really take each component in isolation though, there is so much dedicated silicon, it's really hard to say. Certainly very very custom built.
    lol....This is the same thing a buddy of mine said when he first saw the xbox-one reveal and initial specs. He's mostly a PC gamer but he said MS probably customized the heck out that thing.

  13. #63
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    So custom audio chip to handle the audio processing and 8GBs of flash to store the OS?
    Kind of like a PC build when somebody puts a SSD drive in to run the OS quicker.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver&black_Attack View Post
    So custom audio chip to handle the audio processing and 8GBs of flash to store the OS?
    Kind of like a PC build when somebody puts a SSD drive in to run the OS quicker.
    No this is just like the flash memory found on the HDD less 360 sku's. I doubt the flash memory is very fast (probably comparable to a midrange flash drive/sd card.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    No this is just like the flash memory found on the HDD less 360 sku's. I doubt the flash memory is very fast (probably comparable to a midrange flash drive/sd card.)
    It's interesting how it could be used though.
    If it's for the OS, wouldn't that free up the 8BGs of DDR3 a bit?

    Just have to wait for more details.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver&black_Attack View Post
    It's interesting how it could be used though.
    If it's for the OS, wouldn't that free up the 8BGs of DDR3 a bit?

    Just have to wait for more details.
    Actually I wonder if it could be for the video recording as well?
    It could be quite handy come to think of it.

    My guess would be this is where all your background downloads, video recording and O/S update all sit.

    You wouldn't want the HDD spinning when downloading updates.

  17. #67
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    What does having all those transistors really mean?
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 08-26-2013 at 21:55.

  18. #68
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    Microsoft disclosed details for the main processor and the Kinect image processor in the Xbox One video game console today at a chip design conference.

    Those details are critical for the kind of experience that consumers will have with the Xbox One when it launches this fall. The guts inside the box will determine what kind of quality games the consumers will see and whether the machine will be prone to failure, as the Xbox 360 was when it debuted in 2005.

    Speaking at the Hot Chips engineering conference at Stanford University, Microsoft chip architect John Sell said the Xbox One’s main processor is a gargantuan beast, co-designed with Advanced Micro Devices and manufactured by contract chip manufacturer Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.

    The chip covers an area of 363 square millimeters and is built in a 28-nanometer state-of-the-art manufacturing process. It has 5 billion basic components, known as transistors, on a single chip that combines a microprocessor, graphics processor, and 47 megabytes of memory.

    As one member of the audience remarked, that mean it’s a big chip. Such chips are hard to manufacture, as any small defect can render a chip inoperable. And the larger a chip, the more prone it is to small defects.

    To deal with that, Sell said Microsoft designed in redundancies into the chip where it could, so that if one section was inoperable, it doesn’t kill the whole chip. Nevertheless, it means that it won’t be easy to churn out millions of such chips.

    Kevin Krewell, senior analyst at the chip market analyst firm Linley Group, said that TSMC routinely makes chips of this size for companies such as Nvidia, so the size of the chip shouldn’t be a barrier to manufacturing.

    But that’s exactly what Microsoft needs as it prepares the launch of the Xbox One console, which is going head-to-head against Sony’s PlayStation 4, which debuts in North America on Nov. 15.

    To make the chip more power efficient, Microsoft designed small islands and gates within the chip that could switch off certain areas so the overall chip consumes less power. Such techniques are standard in big chip projects these days, and they mean that only the parts of a chip that are being used are drawing power.

    The central processing unit (CPU) has eight 64-bit Jaguar cores designed by AMD.

    The graphics section of the main processor has 15 special processors that can handle things like graphics or physics processing. Data highways can transfer bits at a rate of 200 gigabytes per second or more across different parts of the chip. The audio subsystem has two dedicated vector cores.

    The Xbox One has 8 gigabytes of shared main memory known as dynamic random access memory. It also has a Blu-ray drive and a 500-gigabyte hard disk.

    Microsoft engineer Patrick O’Connor, meanwhile, talked about the design of the image processor for the motion-sensing Kinect subsystem within the Xbox One.

    The Kinect uses a different way of measuring movement, based on technology acquired from Canesta. The “time of flight” technology sends out light signals and measures how much time it takes to come back. Then it calculates the shape of objects that the signals hit to determine the basic shape of a body or room. It can detect objects as small as 2.5 centimeters, O’Connor said. It can thus discern which way a child’s wrist might be facing. That is much more accurate than the Kinect for the Xbox 360 that was introduced in 2010. The new Kinect image sensor is also much faster than the previous version, with 20 millisecond latency.

    The image sensor chip also controls a 1080p camera that can capture video for Skype or other purposes. Kinect now has a 70-degree viewing angle and can detect movement in larger spaces, ranging from around 0.8 meters to 4.2 meters away. Now it also doesn’t matter if the lighting in the room is good or poor. Kinect can also detect up to six players at a time now.

    Microsoft disclosed some details, but left many important pieces out. Evidently, Microsoft doesn’t want to tell all of its competitors about how well designed its system is.

    Back in 2005, Microsoft and its vendors made some bad calculations and many Xbox 360 game consoles failed from overheating. That led to a $1.1 billion write-off as Microsoft replaced failed machines for as many as one out of every two early customers. That’s why the design of the chips, while arcane, is a very important matter this time around.
    I can't stress enough that some of the work traditionally done by the GPU is being done by other custom chips in this unit. Swizzle matrix maths is something the traditional Vertex shader does, if they have put the GPU but still in the pipeline, that gives the actual GPU a little bit more free grunt to do other work,
    Last edited by mynd; 08-26-2013 at 22:00.

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  20. #69
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    I guess the CPU in the xb1 is a beast according to that.

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    Some noteworthy stuff:
    - peak bandwidth 204GB/s
    - 1.31TF GPU
    - 8GB Flash memory
    - 15 special purpose processors
    - 4 Command processors (2 compute, 2 graphics)
    - SHAPE offloads >1 CPU core
    - Memory coherency between CPU cores and GPU (also caches) - huma?
    - Note that little arrow between the CPU and the ESRAM - CPU can read/write to/from the ESRAM?
    Last edited by Itachi; 08-26-2013 at 22:14.

  22. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I guess the CPU in the xb1 is a beast according to that.
    It's almost as if this were taken straight from a Microsoft Chip architect's mouth...

    According to GAF, the gap is 0.5 TFLOPS - still; but what does 0.5 tflops difference mean?


    EDIT:
    This is probably the funniest/best comparisons of the consoles I've seen to date.
    PC is Majin Buu. He has an almost infinite reserve of power. Even at SSJ3 Goku was no match for Majin Buu.

    So:
    PC: Buu
    PS4: Goku
    Xbox: Vegeta
    Wii U: Krillin
    Krillin!!!!
    Last edited by Admartian; 08-26-2013 at 22:15.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver&black_Attack View Post
    It's interesting how it could be used though.
    If it's for the OS, wouldn't that free up the 8BGs of DDR3 a bit?

    Just have to wait for more details.
    It is used for storage, it is not extra "ram".

    Less reliance on a mechanical hdd which should mean slightly lower energy consumption for certain tasks and less chance of storage medium failure.

  24. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    It's almost as if this were taken straight from a Microsoft Chip architect's mouth...

    According to GAF, the gap is 0.5 TFLOPS - still; but what does 0.5 tflops difference mean?


    EDIT:
    This is probably the funniest/best comparisons of the consoles I've seen to date.


    Krillin!!!!
    Actually as it stands (without Sony being more forthcoming), the CPU and GPU's in the Xbox ONE are going to be far less bogged down with the mundane tasks.

    I'd give the CPU edge to the XBO, and the GPU edge to the PS4.
    Although it remains to be seen what impact those dedicated silicon peices do on the GPU.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    It is used for storage, it is not extra "ram".

    Less reliance on a mechanical hdd which should mean slightly lower energy consumption for certain tasks and less chance of storage medium failure.
    Yeah background downloading all your updates and patches.

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    So where console is "weaker" it makes up for it in other ways. I'm pretty convinced that the differences between the One and PS4 will be slight and it will take side-by-side comparisons to differentiate. It's all coming down to games and I'm giving the edge to the PS4 at this point. We'll see what the indie devs do but that's where I give the PS4 the edge.
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    There is nothing to suggest the CPU in the Xbox One is any different to the one in the PS4 and let's not forget the PS4 has its own dedicated hardware for audio, encoding, decoding and other tasks via the secondary custom chip in the PS4.
    PSN ID:Key2001 3DS FC:1521-2714-7908 Steam ID:jkey2001

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