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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    I think Ballmer is proof that a caveman CAN'T do it.
    Oh my god, you're so funny. Did you come up with that yourself?

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    why so serious. ballmer has always been entertaining to say the least.

    i just don't think he's right for the company. he was riding the waves when MS had a monopoly, they still do but we need new thinking in the company. Windows 8 shows that they don't know wtf they're doing. it's a good idea but horrible execution. the damn thing is made for phones!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    why so serious. ballmer has always been entertaining to say the least.

    i just don't think he's right for the company. he was riding the waves when MS had a monopoly, they still do but we need new thinking in the company. Windows 8 shows that they don't know wtf they're doing. it's a good idea but horrible execution. the damn thing is made for phones!
    I tire of armchair CEO's just like I'm sure F34R tires of armchair cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    I tire of armchair CEO's just like I'm sure F34R tires of armchair cops.
    so you can't have an opinion about a person until you get their job? I guess you must not have complained about anyone ever in your life...I guess we should just accept everthing that is around us because we can't make/produce it.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    You read the part about how MSFT stock hit a 5 year high, that doesn't just happen by itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Ok bro, it just happened by itself. And it takes absolutely no skill at all to do what ballmer does, even a caveman could do it.
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...tirement-news/

    share prices are fickle, they go up and down on a whim. they are no indication of how relevant a company is.

    if that were true, Sony would be in the dirt.

    MS hasn't been moving in the right direction for a long time now, so its good news to see this guy step down. funny story, the other day i was seriously considering doing a thesis around IBM, Blackberry, and a few others and how Microsoft (an integral part of the new age) could end up that way.

    their products have failed to gain traction:
    Zune
    Windows phone
    Windows 8
    Kinect - (large numbers were used for other things outside of gaming showing the misguided nature of their research)

    the one good thing that they've done is implementing the azure network. hopefully this is something they move forward with when the new CEO takes seat.
    having all my Uni resources available on my tablet and on my desktop is simply sublime...shame about the win8 OS though.
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 08-24-2013 at 05:33.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so you can't have an opinion about a person until you get their job? I guess you must not have complained about anyone ever in your life...I guess we should just accept everthing that is around us because we can't make/produce it.
    Their is a difference between and informed and well thought out "complaint" and the unformed and poorly though out rubbish/drivel I see in this thread and elsewhere on the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...tirement-news/

    share prices are fickle, they go up and down on a whim. they are no indication of how relevant a company is.

    if that were true, Sony would be in the dirt.

    MS hasn't been moving in the right direction for a long time now, so its good news to see this guy step down. funny story, the other day i was seriously considering doing a thesis around IBM, Blackberry, and a few others and how Microsoft (an integral part of the new age) could end up that way.

    their products have failed to gain traction:
    Zune
    Windows phone
    Windows 8
    Kinect - (large numbers were used for other things outside of gaming showing the misguided nature of their research)

    the one good thing that they've done is implementing the azure network. hopefully this is something they move forward with when the new CEO takes seat.
    having all my Uni resources available on my tablet and on my desktop is simply sublime...shame about the win8 OS though.
    That is why we are not looking at short term periods of a few months or a couple of years, but a 5 year period. So yes they do matter and are relevant.

    Microsoft has been going through a restructuring process for the past several years which should ensure the the company is much better off in the coming years then they are now, which is still a very good position.

    As for the rest of your listings several are inaccurate.

    Windows phone is experiencing great success in several markets around the world.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsate...t-microsoft/2/

    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/...WPLATAMPR.aspx

    Windows phone is quickly taking over markets around the world, it won't be long till they start chipping away at the western markets with high end phones.

    Windows 8 has been matching the sales pace of windows 7 (shipped 100 million licenses so far) which is pretty good considering 7 is the replacement for XP.


    Kinect is the fastest selling ce device, which was enough to get MS to bundle it with every X1. This will ensure that its success is even greater in the future.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Their is a difference between and informed and well thought out "complaint" and the unformed and poorly though out rubbish/drivel I see in this thread and elsewhere on the internet.
    in other words, you're calling the entire internet rubbish/drivel because most people out there would agree with me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    in other words, you're calling the entire internet rubbish/drivel because most people out there would agree with me.

    Go ahead and defend it. No wonder we have so many problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    That is why we are not looking at short term periods of a few months or a couple of years, but a 5 year period. So yes they do matter and are relevant.

    Microsoft has been going through a restructuring process for the past several years which should ensure the the company is much better off in the coming years then they are now, which is still a very good position.

    As for the rest of your listings several are inaccurate.

    Windows phone is experiencing great success in several markets around the world.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsate...t-microsoft/2/

    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/...WPLATAMPR.aspx

    Windows phone is quickly taking over markets around the world, it won't be long till they start chipping away at the western markets with high end phones.

    Windows 8 has been matching the sales pace of windows 7 (shipped 100 million licenses so far) which is pretty good considering 7 is the replacement for XP.


    Kinect is the fastest selling ce device, which was enough to get MS to bundle it with every X1. This will ensure that its success is even greater in the future.
    firstly, i never said their products weren't selling.

    MS products have failed to gain traction and you quoting MS does little to deny that.

    Windows Phone was never designed for the third world. that is simply ridiculous. the feature set of Win8 and Win8 phone show a product targeting the western markets. the fact that they've relegated themselves to smaller markets is enough evidence to suggest the product can't increase its market share in the bigger markets against Apple and Google.

    Win8 on the other hand was/is a disaster. i use the surface and its a sufficient enough tablet OS, but i would never want that kind of OS at home, nor would i want it for a business - given you provided the link i shouldn't need to tell you the importance of businesses to Microsoft's business model.

    Fact of the matter is, Balmer is unable to keep up with the market.
    MSN, Hotmail, Outlook, Internet Explorer are all areas they've lost out on.

    as i said above, the azure network has to be one of the few things they've done recently to push them forward and keep them relevant with google and Apple.
    sadly, their consumer products make no headway in their respective markets.

    P.S, im too lazy to search Win8 articles, but don't bother linking anything Win8 related my way. the only thing MS are releasing are 'licences sold'. OEM's aren't particularly happy about that.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Go ahead and defend it. No wonder we have so many problems.
    defend what? you're the one who's defending the guy. who has so many problems lol. the forums?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    firstly, i never said their products weren't selling.

    MS products have failed to gain traction and you quoting MS does little to deny that.

    Windows Phone was never designed for the third world. that is simply ridiculous. the feature set of Win8 and Win8 phone show a product targeting the western markets. the fact that they've relegated themselves to smaller markets is enough evidence to suggest the product can't increase its market share in the bigger markets against Apple and Google.

    Win8 on the other hand was/is a disaster. i use the surface and its a sufficient enough tablet OS, but i would never want that kind of OS at home, nor would i want it for a business - given you provided the link i shouldn't need to tell you the importance of businesses to Microsoft's business model.

    Fact of the matter is, Balmer is unable to keep up with the market.
    MSN, Hotmail, Outlook, Internet Explorer are all areas they've lost out on.

    as i said above, the azure network has to be one of the few things they've done recently to push them forward and keep them relevant with google and Apple.
    sadly, their consumer products make no headway in their respective markets.

    P.S, im too lazy to search Win8 articles, but don't bother linking anything Win8 related my way. the only thing MS are releasing are 'licences sold'. OEM's aren't particularly happy about that.
    Seriously, I wonder if anybody on the planet even bothers to try and attempt using critical thinking/reasoning skills anymore.

    You are just going to dismiss date just because it cam from microsoft? Go read the analysis done by other companies, you will see the same things.

    Look at the smartphone marketplace. It is obviously biased towards high end handsets, trying to increase marketshare from the top down is a futile approach. So you do it from the bottom up.

    Look at the best selling WP hardware manufacturer, nokia. They have a large lineup of windows phones. Why? To target all levels of the market. This is the way MS will increase marketshare, not by trying to win over people in the fickle high end smartphone market. This is the smart strategy, because as people upgrade to higher level handsets they will likely stick with products that they had good experiences with, like entry level windows phones. Don't be so shortsighted to think that Microsoft is abandoning a certain segment or segments of the market, they are crafting a better strategy for success.

    The evidence is there if you are willing to look at it.


    As for windows you should know that businesses do not upgrade to the latest and greatest version, they stick with what works for as long a possible before moving on. 7 is the natural upgrade from XP for them. 8 is not. Trying to judge 8 based on how businesses react to it is quite stupid. It is not targeted towards them. And the sales reports show it is doing just fine.

    You can keep talking about things without backing up what you say, but it isn;t going to do anything for your credibility.

    Ballmer has been with Microsoft through many things, including many highs and lows. Just because they aren't the Juggernaut they once were doesn't mean that they aren't a competitor that should be dismissed. They are making significant changes now, but they will be better off to taking on all competitors over the next several years because of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    defend what? you're the one who's defending the guy. who has so many problems lol. the forums?
    If you can't see the issue I'm talking about there is nothing to discuss. People don't think. They just act/react mostly based off of emotions (and that rarely works out well for them). If people did take a bit of time to think and properly inform themsleves before they acted we would all be better off.

    But I guess we are destined to be stuck with the status quo. Have fun riding that train to its end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    If you can't see the issue I'm talking about there is nothing to discuss. People don't think. They just act/react mostly based off of emotions (and that rarely works out well for them). If people did take a bit of time to think and properly inform themsleves before they acted we would all be better off.

    But I guess we are destined to be stuck with the status quo. Have fun riding that train to its end.
    dude, you're defending a guy who probably still does not believe tablets are the future and taking over desktop sales. he doesn't get it. no thank you, keep your kool-aid to yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    dude, you're defending a guy who probably still does not believe tablets are the future and taking over desktop sales. he doesn't get it. no thank you, keep your kool-aid to yourself.
    You are saying this despite the release of windows 8? And the Surface Pro? Perhaps it is you that is drinking the kool-aid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Seriously, I wonder if anybody on the planet even bothers to try and attempt using critical thinking/reasoning skills anymore.

    You are just going to dismiss date just because it cam from microsoft? Go read the analysis done by other companies, you will see the same things.

    Look at the smartphone marketplace. It is obviously biased towards high end handsets, trying to increase marketshare from the top down is a futile approach. So you do it from the bottom up.

    Look at the best selling WP hardware manufacturer, nokia. They have a large lineup of windows phones. Why? To target all levels of the market. This is the way MS will increase marketshare, not by trying to win over people in the fickle high end smartphone market. This is the smart strategy, because as people upgrade to higher level handsets they will likely stick with products that they had good experiences with, like entry level windows phones. Don't be so shortsighted to think that Microsoft is abandoning a certain segment or segments of the market, they are crafting a better strategy for success.

    The evidence is there if you are willing to look at it.


    As for windows you should know that businesses do not upgrade to the latest and greatest version, they stick with what works for as long a possible before moving on. 7 is the natural upgrade from XP for them. 8 is not. Trying to judge 8 based on how businesses react to it is quite stupid. It is not targeted towards them. And the sales reports show it is doing just fine.

    You can keep talking about things without backing up what you say, but it isn;t going to do anything for your credibility.

    Ballmer has been with Microsoft through many things, including many highs and lows. Just because they aren't the Juggernaut they once were doesn't mean that they aren't a competitor that should be dismissed. They are making significant changes now, but they will be better off to taking on all competitors over the next several years because of it.
    me, an Econ major, also studying Management and Business, am being lectured to about critical thinking?

    don't try to lecture me on what i should or shouldn't be looking at. i really couldn't care what Microsoft does. in fact, the only reason i considered them for a thesis was simply because i thought it would be interesting seeing how companies like IMB and Blackberry lost their footing and then applying that to our current leader....Microsoft - who have made strategical errors over the past few years, and have failed to innovate, despite multiple attempts to do so.
    i was recently at an audit firm, and its company policy to keep up to date with the OS. yet Win8 was not on the cards. it simply detracted from productivity.
    the burden for the switch was carried by the IT staff....but that's what they're paid for.

    i should also note that part of the reason i'm hesitant to link is that it would require looking up proper peer reviewed articles that i really don't have the time for.

    bottom line, Microsoft are no where near as secure as you'd like to argue they are. you can link as much as you want to add to your 'credibility' but it doesn't change the fact that Balmer is being stood down for a reason.

    Xbox One was poorly revealed to the world. its target audience? everyone. its price? not for everyone. any high school grad would point out the obvious failing with that logic.
    the companies corporate culture is simply old and outdated. A new CEO who can create an environment where people can actually innovate is much needed by Microsoft going forward.

    Look at the best selling WP hardware manufacturer, nokia. They have a large lineup of windows phones. Why? To target all levels of the market. This is the way MS will increase marketshare, not by trying to win over people in the fickle high end smartphone market. This is the smart strategy, because as people upgrade to higher level handsets they will likely stick with products that they had good experiences with, like entry level windows phones. Don't be so shortsighted to think that Microsoft is abandoning a certain segment or segments of the market, they are crafting a better strategy for success.
    Android?? o_O
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    me, an Econ major, also studying Management and Business, am being lectured to about critical thinking?

    don't try to lecture me on what i should or shouldn't be looking at. i really couldn't care what Microsoft does. in fact, the only reason i considered them for a thesis was simply because i thought it would be interesting seeing how companies like IMB and Blackberry lost their footing and then applying that to our current leader....Microsoft - who have made strategical errors over the past few years, and have failed to innovate, despite multiple attempts to do so.
    i was recently at an audit firm, and its company policy to keep up to date with the OS. yet Win8 was not on the cards. it simply detracted from productivity.
    the burden for the switch was carried by the IT staff....but that's what they're paid for.

    i should also note that part of the reason i'm hesitant to link is that it would require looking up proper peer reviewed articles that i really don't have the time for.

    bottom line, Microsoft are no where near as secure as you'd like to argue they are. you can link as much as you want to add to your 'credibility' but it doesn't change the fact that Balmer is being stood down for a reason.

    Xbox One was poorly revealed to the world. its target audience? everyone. its price? not for everyone. any high school grad would point out the obvious failing with that logic.
    the companies corporate culture is simply old and outdated. A new CEO who can create an environment where people can actually innovate is much needed by Microsoft going forward.


    Android?? o_O
    You can throw out all the credential in the world, but your posts tell me that you don't get it.

    I only have 3 things to say.

    78.94 Billion. The total equity of Microsoft. They aren't going anywhere for a long time. Not only do they have a sizable amount of equity, but they have a steady stream of business even outside the Windows and xbox divisions.

    #2:

    34 years. That will be the time spent at MS by Ballmer when he retires. How long do you expect people to stay on? Until they croak?

    #3 If you really think android is worthwhile for entry level smartphones, you really have not been paying attention. Hell I'll give you a challenge.

    Find me a decent new (not used or refurbished) android phone (not a nexus device) that has a street price under $300.

    Good luck.

    I can find plenty of windows phones that meet that criteria and have good performance/responsiveness.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    me, an Econ major, also studying Management and Business, am being lectured to about critical thinking?

    don't try to lecture me on what i should or shouldn't be looking at. i really couldn't care what Microsoft does. in fact, the only reason i considered them for a thesis was simply because i thought it would be interesting seeing how companies like IMB and Blackberry lost their footing and then applying that to our current leader....Microsoft - who have made strategical errors over the past few years, and have failed to innovate, despite multiple attempts to do so.
    i was recently at an audit firm, and its company policy to keep up to date with the OS. yet Win8 was not on the cards. it simply detracted from productivity.
    the burden for the switch was carried by the IT staff....but that's what they're paid for.

    i should also note that part of the reason i'm hesitant to link is that it would require looking up proper peer reviewed articles that i really don't have the time for.

    bottom line, Microsoft are no where near as secure as you'd like to argue they are. you can link as much as you want to add to your 'credibility' but it doesn't change the fact that Balmer is being stood down for a reason.

    Xbox One was poorly revealed to the world. its target audience? everyone. its price? not for everyone. any high school grad would point out the obvious failing with that logic.
    the companies corporate culture is simply old and outdated. A new CEO who can create an environment where people can actually innovate is much needed by Microsoft going forward.


    Android?? o_O
    You can throw out all the credential in the world, but your posts tell me that you don't get it.

    I only have 3 things to say.

    78.94 Billion. The total equity of Microsoft. They aren't going anywhere for a long time. Not only do they have a sizable amount of equity, but they have a steady stream of business even outside the Windows and xbox divisions.

    #2:

    34 years. That will be the time spent at MS by Ballmer when he retires. How long do you expect people to stay on? Until they croak?

    #3 If you really think android is worthwhile for entry level smartphones, you really have not been paying attention. Hell I'll give you a challenge.

    Find me a decent new (not used or refurbished) android phone (not a nexus device) that has a street price under $300.

    Good luck.

    I can find plenty of windows phones that meet that criteria and have good performance/responsiveness.

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    actually, within the five year period all those shares have fluctuated. They are pretty much in the same position now than they were five years ago. lol The only thing that company can hope for is someone better than Steve Ballmer and to be honest it's really a 50/50 shot at this point .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Oh my god, you're so funny. Did you come up with that yourself?
    Geez...kidding around pal. Lighten up
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    You are saying this despite the release of windows 8? And the Surface Pro? Perhaps it is you that is drinking the kool-aid.
    do you have windows 8? it's a cluster$#@!. again, the thing wasn't made for desktops/laptops! you should at least have a mode where it should either automatically identify this or at least let you pick different modes of the Windows. Such as mobile or desktop etc. You're stuck in mobile mode = Windows 8.

    Surface Pro...ok lol your point? dude, if something is popular, you'll be sure to see that MS will come out with it, my point is that they haven't been innovative with their products. In fact, most of their products have failed.

    The only thing Ballmer has seen success with is Windows and that $#@! did not need ballmer to go where it has. That was all Gates to begin with. Ballmer did not make MS successful. He just happened to be there while they had a monopoly.

    My point is to get someone in there that is sane and actually is intelligent like Jobs who can come up with innovative ideas moving forward. MS is not an innovator at this point. Look at how much evolution Apple has brought to the table...evolution! They have completely changed the way this world is and will be!

    Gates is a smart guy so the only thing that makes sense to me at this point is that there was a personal reason why he kept him on this post or even gave it to him...Ballmer was definitely passionate about MS. They both have a lot of history together. I can't fathom any other reason, especially in the new millenium with the boom of new innovation...you need someone who is not stuck in caveman times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    do you have windows 8? it's a cluster$#@!. again, the thing wasn't made for desktops/laptops! you should at least have a mode where it should either automatically identify this or at least let you pick different modes of the Windows. Such as mobile or desktop etc. You're stuck in mobile mode = Windows 8.

    Surface Pro...ok lol your point? dude, if something is popular, you'll be sure to see that MS will come out with it, my point is that they haven't been innovative with their products. In fact, most of their products have failed.

    The only thing Ballmer has seen success with is Windows and that $#@! did not need ballmer to go where it has. That was all Gates to begin with. Ballmer did not make MS successful. He just happened to be there while they had a monopoly.

    My point is to get someone in there that is sane and actually is intelligent like Jobs who can come up with innovative ideas moving forward. MS is not an innovator at this point. Look at how much evolution Apple has brought to the table...evolution! They have completely changed the way this world is and will be!

    Gates is a smart guy so the only thing that makes sense to me at this point is that there was a personal reason why he kept him on this post or even gave it to him...Ballmer was definitely passionate about MS. They both have a lot of history together. I can't fathom any other reason, especially in the new millenium with the boom of new innovation...you need someone who is not stuck in caveman times.
    I have only used the preview versions of Win8.

    If MS gave you a choice between the classic interface and the modern interface, nobody would use the modern version. Which would defeat the entire point. MS would axe the classic version at some point and then people would complain about whatever iteration of windows MS did that in.

    If you cannot adopt to the modern interface there is readily available 3rd party software that will change the interface to make it similar to previous versions of windows, takes a few minutes to download and install and that's it. If you are going to complain about doing something as simple as that, then there really isn't much to say about you or your computer skills.

    And if what you just posted wasn't laughable enough, you come out with the golden line about apple and innovation. LOL

    Apple doesn't innovate. They simply refine existing ideas/concepts and make them popular. That isn't innovation, it is just good implementation and marketing.

    Hell people have been complaining for the past few years (essentially since Jobs passed) that apple has become stagnant. They resorted to putting in ios features into OSX. They reneged on their whole concept about the iphone screen size due to pressure from competitors. They are losing on the hardware smartphone front as well. And from what it looks like being forced to abandon their 1 phone model policy to produce a cheaper model to better compete with android and windows phone. The mp3 player market is in decline and doesn't do much for apple, not really anything more for them to do there. And then there is the ipad. Initially head and shoulders above the competition they are facing steep competition from android tablets below and at their pricepoints and full blow windows tablets/convertibles at higher price points. Not to mention the joke that the ipad mini is.

    Yep that screams innovation to me /s.

    And what has microsoft done with windows 8? Ushered in may new and interesting computer designs from convertibles, to hybrid laptop/tablets and new desktop form factors. none of which would have happened without windows 8. We would basically be suck with the same categories of computers we have had for the past decade. Yeah, clearly MS's efforts with Windows 8 lacked innovation.

    Surface? Class leading tablets with innovative form factors and type/touch covers? You can't see the innovation there? Sure it has gotten off to a slow start, but the WinRT has to grow and the,hardware internals need to improve a bit to fully realize the idea (behind the pro) but the 1st generation is a solid product.

    Lets move on. Look at the original xbox. Just a bunch of off the shelf pc parts stuck in a console, right? At first glance yes, and it didn't seem like much would come of it. But then Microsoft xbox live which define what online gaming on consoles should be like, setting the standard and offering something that their competitors still have yet to match. But everybody said they would fail and nothing would come of their efforts.

    Next? Windows phone? What is so special about it. it combines the standards of ios (which make it stable and easy to use) with some of the freedoms of android which gives you many more choices and options. And the made wp very efficient so it doesn't need the latest hardware to provide a good user experience. Which is why it is finding success in so many markets and is growing a good rate.

    Whats next? Skydrive. Just and online storage service right? Nothing special? Nope. MS has constantly refined it to be best overall cloud storage service with its features, ease of use and accessibility on many different platforms and services.

    And I can go on and on. MS doesn't spend more on R/D than anybody else for nothing.

    And lets get to your final paragraphs. You agree that Gates is an intelligent and capable leader,right? So if that is the case and Ballmer is so bad, why would he first appoint him CEO and later as his successor to run Microsoft while he focused on philanthropy? Surely if Ballmer suck so bad he wouldnl't leave him in charge no matter how long Ballmer was at MS or how close their relationship was? And if he was unsatisfied with his performance, wouldn't he step in with the board of directors to give Ballmer the boot and find someone better (or come back himself)? Yet that didn't happen.

    I'm not saying Ballmer is great or good at his job. He has had missteps and problems during his leadership. He has said foolish things. He has had issues with other employees But overall he has done a decent job. Of course things could be better, you could say that about Tim Cook or pretty much any other leader. But to act like he is the worst business exec ever? That is ridiculous. And obviously isn't the case because he was allowed to remain in his position at MS for so long and retire at his discretion.

    Take off the blinders, and have an objective look.

  24. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    do you have windows 8? it's a cluster$#@!. again, the thing wasn't made for desktops/laptops! you should at least have a mode where it should either automatically identify this or at least let you pick different modes of the Windows. Such as mobile or desktop etc. You're stuck in mobile mode = Windows 8.

    Surface Pro...ok lol your point? dude, if something is popular, you'll be sure to see that MS will come out with it, my point is that they haven't been innovative with their products. In fact, most of their products have failed.

    The only thing Ballmer has seen success with is Windows and that $#@! did not need ballmer to go where it has. That was all Gates to begin with. Ballmer did not make MS successful. He just happened to be there while they had a monopoly.

    My point is to get someone in there that is sane and actually is intelligent like Jobs who can come up with innovative ideas moving forward. MS is not an innovator at this point. Look at how much evolution Apple has brought to the table...evolution! They have completely changed the way this world is and will be!

    Gates is a smart guy so the only thing that makes sense to me at this point is that there was a personal reason why he kept him on this post or even gave it to him...Ballmer was definitely passionate about MS. They both have a lot of history together. I can't fathom any other reason, especially in the new millenium with the boom of new innovation...you need someone who is not stuck in caveman times.
    I have only used the preview versions of Win8.

    If MS gave you a choice between the classic interface and the modern interface, nobody would use the modern version. Which would defeat the entire point. MS would axe the classic version at some point and then people would complain about whatever iteration of windows MS did that in.

    If you cannot adopt to the modern interface there is readily available 3rd party software that will change the interface to make it similar to previous versions of windows, takes a few minutes to download and install and that's it. If you are going to complain about doing something as simple as that, then there really isn't much to say about you or your computer skills.

    And if what you just posted wasn't laughable enough, you come out with the golden line about apple and innovation. LOL

    Apple doesn't innovate. They simply refine existing ideas/concepts and make them popular. That isn't innovation, it is just good implementation and marketing.

    Hell people have been complaining for the past few years (essentially since Jobs passed) that apple has become stagnant. They resorted to putting in ios features into OSX. They reneged on their whole concept about the iphone screen size due to pressure from competitors. They are losing on the hardware smartphone front as well. And from what it looks like being forced to abandon their 1 phone model policy to produce a cheaper model to better compete with android and windows phone. The mp3 player market is in decline and doesn't do much for apple, not really anything more for them to do there. And then there is the ipad. Initially head and shoulders above the competition they are facing steep competition from android tablets below and at their pricepoints and full blow windows tablets/convertibles at higher price points. Not to mention the joke that the ipad mini is.

    Yep that screams innovation to me /s.

    And what has microsoft done with windows 8? Ushered in may new and interesting computer designs from convertibles, to hybrid laptop/tablets and new desktop form factors. none of which would have happened without windows 8. We would basically be suck with the same categories of computers we have had for the past decade. Yeah, clearly MS's efforts with Windows 8 lacked innovation.

    Surface? Class leading tablets with innovative form factors and type/touch covers? You can't see the innovation there? Sure it has gotten off to a slow start, but the WinRT has to grow and the,hardware internals need to improve a bit to fully realize the idea (behind the pro) but the 1st generation is a solid product.

    Lets move on. Look at the original xbox. Just a bunch of off the shelf pc parts stuck in a console, right? At first glance yes, and it didn't seem like much would come of it. But then Microsoft xbox live which define what online gaming on consoles should be like, setting the standard and offering something that their competitors still have yet to match. But everybody said they would fail and nothing would come of their efforts.

    Next? Windows phone? What is so special about it. it combines the standards of ios (which make it stable and easy to use) with some of the freedoms of android which gives you many more choices and options. And the made wp very efficient so it doesn't need the latest hardware to provide a good user experience. Which is why it is finding success in so many markets and is growing a good rate.

    Whats next? Skydrive. Just and online storage service right? Nothing special? Nope. MS has constantly refined it to be best overall cloud storage service with its features, ease of use and accessibility on many different platforms and services.

    And I can go on and on. MS doesn't spend more on R/D than anybody else for nothing.

    And lets get to your final paragraphs. You agree that Gates is an intelligent and capable leader,right? So if that is the case and Ballmer is so bad, why would he first appoint him CEO and later as his successor to run Microsoft while he focused on philanthropy? Surely if Ballmer suck so bad he wouldnl't leave him in charge no matter how long Ballmer was at MS or how close their relationship was? And if he was unsatisfied with his performance, wouldn't he step in with the board of directors to give Ballmer the boot and find someone better (or come back himself)? Yet that didn't happen.

    I'm not saying Ballmer is great or good at his job. He has had missteps and problems during his leadership. He has said foolish things. He has had issues with other employees But overall he has done a decent job. Of course things could be better, you could say that about Tim Cook or pretty much any other leader. But to act like he is the worst business exec ever? That is ridiculous. And obviously isn't the case because he was allowed to remain in his position at MS for so long and retire at his discretion.

    Take off the blinders, and have an objective look.

  25. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    do you have windows 8? it's a cluster$#@!. again, the thing wasn't made for desktops/laptops! you should at least have a mode where it should either automatically identify this or at least let you pick different modes of the Windows. Such as mobile or desktop etc. You're stuck in mobile mode = Windows 8.

    Surface Pro...ok lol your point? dude, if something is popular, you'll be sure to see that MS will come out with it, my point is that they haven't been innovative with their products. In fact, most of their products have failed.

    The only thing Ballmer has seen success with is Windows and that $#@! did not need ballmer to go where it has. That was all Gates to begin with. Ballmer did not make MS successful. He just happened to be there while they had a monopoly.

    My point is to get someone in there that is sane and actually is intelligent like Jobs who can come up with innovative ideas moving forward. MS is not an innovator at this point. Look at how much evolution Apple has brought to the table...evolution! They have completely changed the way this world is and will be!

    Gates is a smart guy so the only thing that makes sense to me at this point is that there was a personal reason why he kept him on this post or even gave it to him...Ballmer was definitely passionate about MS. They both have a lot of history together. I can't fathom any other reason, especially in the new millenium with the boom of new innovation...you need someone who is not stuck in caveman times.
    I have only used the preview versions of Win8.

    If MS gave you a choice between the classic interface and the modern interface, nobody would use the modern version. Which would defeat the entire point. MS would axe the classic version at some point and then people would complain about whatever iteration of windows MS did that in.

    If you cannot adopt to the modern interface there is readily available 3rd party software that will change the interface to make it similar to previous versions of windows, takes a few minutes to download and install and that's it. If you are going to complain about doing something as simple as that, then there really isn't much to say about you or your computer skills.

    And if what you just posted wasn't laughable enough, you come out with the golden line about apple and innovation. LOL

    Apple doesn't innovate. They simply refine existing ideas/concepts and make them popular. That isn't innovation, it is just good implementation and marketing.

    Hell people have been complaining for the past few years (essentially since Jobs passed) that apple has become stagnant. They resorted to putting in ios features into OSX. They reneged on their whole concept about the iphone screen size due to pressure from competitors. They are losing on the hardware smartphone front as well. And from what it looks like being forced to abandon their 1 phone model policy to produce a cheaper model to better compete with android and windows phone. The mp3 player market is in decline and doesn't do much for apple, not really anything more for them to do there. And then there is the ipad. Initially head and shoulders above the competition they are facing steep competition from android tablets below and at their pricepoints and full blow windows tablets/convertibles at higher price points. Not to mention the joke that the ipad mini is.

    Yep that screams innovation to me /s.

    And what has microsoft done with windows 8? Ushered in may new and interesting computer designs from convertibles, to hybrid laptop/tablets and new desktop form factors. none of which would have happened without windows 8. We would basically be suck with the same categories of computers we have had for the past decade. Yeah, clearly MS's efforts with Windows 8 lacked innovation.

    Surface? Class leading tablets with innovative form factors and type/touch covers? You can't see the innovation there? Sure it has gotten off to a slow start, but the WinRT has to grow and the,hardware internals need to improve a bit to fully realize the idea (behind the pro) but the 1st generation is a solid product.

    Lets move on. Look at the original xbox. Just a bunch of off the shelf pc parts stuck in a console, right? At first glance yes, and it didn't seem like much would come of it. But then Microsoft xbox live which define what online gaming on consoles should be like, setting the standard and offering something that their competitors still have yet to match. But everybody said they would fail and nothing would come of their efforts.

    Next? Windows phone? What is so special about it. it combines the standards of ios (which make it stable and easy to use) with some of the freedoms of android which gives you many more choices and options. And the made wp very efficient so it doesn't need the latest hardware to provide a good user experience. Which is why it is finding success in so many markets and is growing a good rate.

    Whats next? Skydrive. Just and online storage service right? Nothing special? Nope. MS has constantly refined it to be best overall cloud storage service with its features, ease of use and accessibility on many different platforms and services.

    And I can go on and on. MS doesn't spend more on R/D than anybody else for nothing.

    And lets get to your final paragraphs. You agree that Gates is an intelligent and capable leader,right? So if that is the case and Ballmer is so bad, why would he first appoint him CEO and later as his successor to run Microsoft while he focused on philanthropy? Surely if Ballmer suck so bad he wouldnl't leave him in charge no matter how long Ballmer was at MS or how close their relationship was? And if he was unsatisfied with his performance, wouldn't he step in with the board of directors to give Ballmer the boot and find someone better (or come back himself)? Yet that didn't happen.

    I'm not saying Ballmer is great or good at his job. He has had missteps and problems during his leadership. He has said foolish things. He has had issues with other employees But overall he has done a decent job. Of course things could be better, you could say that about Tim Cook or pretty much any other leader. But to act like he is the worst business exec ever? That is ridiculous. And obviously isn't the case because he was allowed to remain in his position at MS for so long and retire at his discretion.

    Take off the blinders, and have an objective look.

  26. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    I have only used the preview versions of Win8.

    If MS gave you a choice between the classic interface and the modern interface, nobody would use the modern version. Which would defeat the entire point. MS would axe the classic version at some point and then people would complain about whatever iteration of windows MS did that in.

    If you cannot adopt to the modern interface there is readily available 3rd party software that will change the interface to make it similar to previous versions of windows, takes a few minutes to download and install and that's it. If you are going to complain about doing something as simple as that, then there really isn't much to say about you or your computer skills.
    really? you're going to talk all this trash without even using Windows 8?

    let me give you a hint: you cannot multitask apps, like you can on a desktop, just like you can't on a mobile phone. which makes sense because they are low-powered so can't have multiple apps showing, don't have a keyboard/mouse to quick go back and forth but if you're going to come out with Windows that's supposedly built for the desktop/laptop, you have to make it easier than what you'd use on the mobile phone. Mobile phones aren't easier, they're just more simple. XP/7 are easier because everything is right there, you're not switching from one screen to another.

    If you've ever used this, you'd be pulling your hair out and asking them wtf they were thinking. another thing is that when you first turn on Windows 8, it doesn't tell you if it's an "app" running or a program (that we know from previous windows). The difference is that an app will take up the entire screen like it does on a mobile phone. So you'll be pulling your hair out trying to figure out how to run that "app" from the desktop because each time, it will take up the entire screen. Apps are not the same as programs (and I'm using these specific names for them because that's what we just call them, even though the word can be interchangeably used) that are in the Program Files folder. Sometimes they're both but they don't bother telling you that you have an option to do this. You have to figure this out by yourself.

    There is an option to somewhat multitask apps. You have to swipe the other app onto your current one, it will show part of the other app but it's designed for swipe, that's not convenient for me because I'm on a damn 15" laptop, not a phone where I can easily swipe the screen at any given moment.

    It's not a big deal but if you have been on desktops for years, you know what I'm talking about when I say that this is not convenient. I'll always have a desktop because no matter how many devices come out (and we have phones and laptops), a desktop will always be more convenient and easy to use.

    Windows 8 was built for phones and then they just threw it onto the desktop/laptop market. So now you know why Windows 8 sales were so disastrous. Seriously dude, use the damn thing before you belittle someone. I've been using computers for the past 21 years and I consider myself advanced (no that doesn't mean that I'm calling myself a programmer). I do have a lot of experience.
    And if what you just posted wasn't laughable enough, you come out with the golden line about apple and innovation. LOL

    Apple doesn't innovate. They simply refine existing ideas/concepts and make them popular. That isn't innovation, it is just good implementation and marketing.

    Hell people have been complaining for the past few years (essentially since Jobs passed) that apple has become stagnant. They resorted to putting in ios features into OSX. They reneged on their whole concept about the iphone screen size due to pressure from competitors. They are losing on the hardware smartphone front as well. And from what it looks like being forced to abandon their 1 phone model policy to produce a cheaper model to better compete with android and windows phone. The mp3 player market is in decline and doesn't do much for apple, not really anything more for them to do there. And then there is the ipad. Initially head and shoulders above the competition they are facing steep competition from android tablets below and at their pricepoints and full blow windows tablets/convertibles at higher price points. Not to mention the joke that the ipad mini is.

    Yep that screams innovation to me /s.
    Ok, yes, ipods are declining because the entire music player industry is declining, your point? Music can be played on so many portable devices now, obviously it was going to eventually decline. I'm saying "who" came out with the ipod? Who finally made people buy music after napster made everyone into a criminal? They were the first ones to come out with a sleek, small and user-friendly design that people could use as a music player.

    As for iPhone and iPad. I have always disagreed with Apple's strategy, but not their product. Their strategy to keep things exclusive maybe had a reason behind it but it was stupid from a business standpoint. True, and that's why they've always been losing on that front. But they came out with these products. Others followed. That counts as innovation. In fact, iPhone was an evolution in phones. iPad should also be counted as an innovation at least and it was the first one to do it.

    You're arguing about sales, I'm arguing about innovation. Makes no sense. One doesn't always have anything to do with the other. The rest is business strategies. Samsung is good with their $#@!, that's all. I like Android more than the iOS, that still doesn't mean that Apple didn't revolutionize that concept first. Android just took it a step further, that's innovation for sure though. They didn't invent the idea though.
    And what has microsoft done with windows 8? Ushered in may new and interesting computer designs from convertibles, to hybrid laptop/tablets and new desktop form factors. none of which would have happened without windows 8. We would basically be suck with the same categories of computers we have had for the past decade. Yeah, clearly MS's efforts with Windows 8 lacked innovation.
    firstly that's a load of bull$#@! because you know nothing about the Windows 8 and yet you keep talking about it like it's the best thing since sliced bread. The only thing they added was the ability to play apps, I love that but the way they executed it, was freaking horrible. it's like they hired a bunch of pseudo-programmers that were once taxi drivers (this actually happens) and asked them to put two things together.

    There's not a single thing about Win 8 that says they took desktops or even laptops into account when combining both things. if you're going to speak so highly about something, actually use it first. better yet, google what people are saying about it, see why they're switching back to windows 7, understand why the sales have been abysmal.
    Surface? Class leading tablets with innovative form factors and type/touch covers?
    says who?
    You can't see the innovation there? Sure it has gotten off to a slow start, but the WinRT has to grow and the,hardware internals need to improve a bit to fully realize the idea (behind the pro) but the 1st generation is a solid product.
    Metro apps aren't bad but I much prefer Android OS.
    Lets move on. Look at the original xbox. Just a bunch of off the shelf pc parts stuck in a console, right? At first glance yes, and it didn't seem like much would come of it. But then Microsoft xbox live which define what online gaming on consoles should be like, setting the standard and offering something that their competitors still have yet to match. But everybody said they would fail and nothing would come of their efforts.
    ok? Not sure what this has to do with anything or one another. Xbox is a hardware, Live is a software, they could've put Live on anything and it would've been successful. It has nothing to do with the bad design of unit itself or the controller. Although I did like that it was powerful and had a HDD built in. Do you know there were features on SOCOM 2/3 that were unmatched on Xbox Live 1.0?
    Next? Windows phone? What is so special about it. it combines the standards of ios (which make it stable and easy to use) with some of the freedoms of android which gives you many more choices and options.
    Nokis blasts MS for WP app failings
    And the made wp very efficient so it doesn't need the latest hardware to provide a good user experience. Which is why it is finding success in so many markets and is growing a good rate.
    Worldwide Smartphone Sales to End Users by Operating System in 2Q13 (Thousands of Units)
    Operating System
    2Q13
    Units
    2Q13 Market Share (%)
    2Q12
    Units
    2Q12 Market Share (%)
    Android
    177,898.2
    79.0
    98,664.0
    64.2
    iOS
    31,899.7
    14.2
    28,935.0
    18.8
    Microsoft
    7,407.6
    3.3
    4,039.1
    2.6
    BlackBerry
    6,180.0
    2.7
    7,991.2
    5.2
    Bada
    838.2
    0.4
    4,208.8
    2.7
    Symbian
    630.8
    0.3
    9,071.5
    5.9
    Others
    471.7
    0.2
    863.3
    0.6
    Total
    225,326.2
    100.0
    153,772.9
    100.0
    http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2573415

    and then we have

    Nokia's booming Windows Phone sales set a world record. So why is Lumia dying in the U.S?

    the only reason MS even got that is because Lumia is a very cheap phone.
    Whats next? Skydrive. Just and online storage service right? Nothing special? Nope. MS has constantly refined it to be best overall cloud storage service with its features, ease of use and accessibility on many different platforms and services.
    lol, you say the same junk about all of their products? can we make sure Matrix 2 isn't a bot? you're just opening up a can of worms as you bring more MS products/services hah.

    have you ever used skydrive? it's nothing special and it loads slower than the actual program itself. Could you please list things that are great about it other than the generic statements you're making about them?

    I still prefer Google docs but I still like the option of skydrive because MS office has a monopoly and sometimes compatibility is an issue. however it was about damn time MS did that because Google was dominating there for years, skydrive is nothing new or better.
    And I can go on and on.
    i know
    MS doesn't spend more on R/D than anybody else for nothing.
    Dude, if they spend a lot of R&D, it's all going to waste and they definitely need a change in their leadership. It's sad to see Apple going down and I think it's directly related to the death of Jobs. He was a true innovator.

    I will give MS a round of applause for bringing innovation to the console market. You have to give credit where it's due. I still use Windows 8 because despite all its problems, there's no way i can use the touch feature on my laptop successfully. My son loves the thing because of all the apps so I keep it on there but that's where it stops. If MS didn't have a monopoly on desktop OSs, we would've already seen something better, much earlier. I want a true app-using Windows for desktops, that would be nice.
    And lets get to your final paragraphs. You agree that Gates is an intelligent and capable leader,right? So if that is the case and Ballmer is so bad, why would he first appoint him CEO and later as his successor to run Microsoft while he focused on philanthropy? Surely if Ballmer suck so bad he wouldnl't leave him in charge no matter how long Ballmer was at MS or how close their relationship was? And if he was unsatisfied with his performance, wouldn't he step in with the board of directors to give Ballmer the boot and find someone better (or come back himself)? Yet that didn't happen.
    that doesn't prove anything. if you know Ballmer's history, it makes sense that Gates would give him special privileges, he was there with him from the beginning. on another note, did you know Sony had to kick out the father of PlayStation to get PlayStation back on track.

    I'm not saying Ballmer is great or good at his job.
    So you agree that he's bad.
    He has had missteps and problems during his leadership. He has said foolish things. He has had issues with other employees But overall he has done a decent job.
    didn't even know about his problem with other EEs. Leadership.

    Decent isn't good enough today.
    Of course things could be better, you could say that about Tim Cook or pretty much any other leader. But to act like he is the worst business exec ever? That is ridiculous.
    Ok, fair enough, show us someone worse, who is also not in touch with reality or time.
    And obviously isn't the case because he was allowed to remain in his position at MS for so long and retire at his discretion.
    Take off the blinders, and have an objective look.
    Already off sir.

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