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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Well, you seem to be OKAY with it. I can't understand that either.



    I said the value of the Xbox One would increase. So, yes...it really would. Right now it is just an artificial bullet point for the XBL service as those apps don't really add value to it. Netflix/Amazon etc are available on many devices.



    If that is all you had meant by it I wouldn't have said a thing. What you were doing is like me saying you want to talk up Microsoft is why you defend Microsoft's decision to keep it behind a paywall.



    The reason does matter. People aren't subscribing to XBL for Netflix, etc. So Microsoft may as well remove the extra paywall and add some value to their console without the need of an XBL subscription.



    This isn't about right or wrong. Both Microsoft and their customers would benefit if Netflix wasn't locked behind the XBL subscription.

    People who buy the Xbox One are Microsoft customers also, not just those who pay for XBL.
    You don't seem to get it. I'm not OK with it and I'm not defending it or MS. I'm simply explaining that it's working for MS and customers don't seem to mind to much.

    You think it will add value. MS apparently disagrees or they would make everything, except for online gaming, free.

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    The way I see it is that they're just adding to the gold membership that i already pay for. Paying members should get more IMO. It's no different than the cable TV model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Sensational headline is sensational!

    But yeah, this is just another bone MS is tossing to Sony.
    *catches bone and gnaws on it*



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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    The way I see it is that they're just adding to the gold membership that i already pay for. Paying members should get more IMO. It's no different than the cable TV model.
    Some how I think that even if MS made people pay to just breath around the xbox, you would fine a reason why its ok and that its such a great value.
    Honestly those services are not bonuses most of them are free apps on EVERYTHING besides an xbox. MS wants to take over your living room and charge you for living there. MS are not trying to add "value" to gold, they are using dirty tricks to force people to sub.
    I don't care if people buy gold, people see value in it thats fine. A lot of people saw value in buying a pet rock, didn't change the fact its the same damn rock you find in your yard, just one has makeup and cost you money.


  5. #55
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    There is zero value in having to pay twice (Netflix, etc.) to be able to use the app on the console. I find it kind of sad folks are okay with that.

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  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    There is zero value in having to pay twice (Netflix, etc.) to be able to use the app on the console. I find it kind of sad folks are okay with that.
    I think people have just gotten use to taking the shaft and being told its "added value".


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  9. #57
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    While yes it is really douchey of MS to put this stuff behind a pay wall, it does do exactly what MS want. Make it appear to have more value than it really has, they can make them selling points even if it is free elsewhere.

    This is just the usual marketing/sales drive crap.

  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    There is zero value in having to pay twice (Netflix, etc.) to be able to use the app on the console. I find it kind of sad folks are okay with that.
    You don't have to pay twice, Netflix. It's a choice. I find it sad that folks consider that as having to pay for it.




  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    You don't have to pay twice, Netflix. It's a choice. I find it sad that folks consider that as having to pay for it.
    Well...you do have to pay to access Netflix on X1, obviously. Although no one is going to purchase Gold just for Netflix especially since there are other ways to get Netflix on your TV without having to pay anymore than the standard subscription fee. That is what puzzles me though. Why put it behind a paywall when everyone else just makes it a standard feature of the console, smart TV, whatever? Kinda silly.
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  13. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    That is what puzzles me though. Why put it behind a paywall when everyone else just makes it a standard feature of the console, smart TV, whatever? Kinda silly.
    To generate revenue? The Playstation is now charging for online, which they said they wouldn't do. But they were losing money, and MS was making money. But why charge for online play when they don't charge for it on PC? People can online game free on PC all day and night, but they CHOOSE to buy a PS or Xbox an choose to pay to play online. That is puzzling to many...think about it. Everyone has a PC, games are cheaper on PC, games perform better on PC, online gaming is free on PC, online communities like Steam are free on PC. Yet there are 160 million PS3 and 360 owners paying to play online, paying more for games, paying $300-$400 for consoles when they already have PC's, getting 720p and sub hd games running at 30 fps.

    So the PS and Xbox has a HUGE HUGE pay wall for access to gaming, and yet everyone swallows it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeisureSuitLarry View Post
    Well...you do have to pay to access Netflix on X1, obviously. Although no one is going to purchase Gold just for Netflix especially since there are other ways to get Netflix on your TV without having to pay anymore than the standard subscription fee. That is what puzzles me though. Why put it behind a paywall when everyone else just makes it a standard feature of the console, smart TV, whatever? Kinda silly.
    I agree that it is silly, puzzling, etc. It's still a choice though. I choose not to use it on the 360, but I can because I pay for Gold. I dunno. It doesn't make much sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    To generate revenue? The Playstation is now charging for online, which they said they wouldn't do. But they were losing money, and MS was making money. But why charge for online play when they don't charge for it on PC? People can online game free on PC all day and night, but they CHOOSE to buy a PS or Xbox an choose to pay to play online. That is puzzling to many...think about it. Everyone has a PC, games are cheaper on PC, games perform better on PC, online gaming is free on PC, online communities like Steam are free on PC. Yet there are 160 million PS3 and 360 owners paying to play online, paying more for games, paying $300-$400 for consoles when they already have PC's, getting 720p and sub hd games running at 30 fps.

    So the PS and Xbox has a HUGE HUGE pay wall for access to gaming, and yet everyone swallows it up.
    I was going to post almost the same thing...

    It was "bragged" upon that online play was free with the Playstation brand, and Xbox Gold was dragged to hell and back, time and time again, over having to pay for online. Well, it's here now for us PS owners. Soldier hit the head/nail perfectly with that.




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  16. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    To generate revenue? The Playstation is now charging for online, which they said they wouldn't do. But they were losing money, and MS was making money. But why charge for online play when they don't charge for it on PC? People can online game free on PC all day and night, but they CHOOSE to buy a PS or Xbox an choose to pay to play online. That is puzzling to many...think about it. Everyone has a PC, games are cheaper on PC, games perform better on PC, online gaming is free on PC, online communities like Steam are free on PC. Yet there are 160 million PS3 and 360 owners paying to play online, paying more for games, paying $300-$400 for consoles when they already have PC's, getting 720p and sub hd games running at 30 fps.

    So the PS and Xbox has a HUGE HUGE pay wall for access to gaming, and yet everyone swallows it up.
    How dare you bring logic into this? Damn you! This is a thread created to trash the One, MS and Live.

    Now look what you've done. You injected logic into an argument meant to incite emotion.

    Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.!

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  18. #63
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    That "logic" doesn't make sense. So because you have to pay for multiplayer, it is same thing as paying for streaming services while on the other services you don't have to?
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  19. #64
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    This is quite hilarious, and grinding at the same time. So it's "added value" to be enabled to use a service that just works everywhere else, just because it IS enabled = hence being the issue! Why don't we take a different service that's behind the pay wall; Gametrailers. How the hell does one justify putting that of all things behind another pay wall, when I could just go to the website, which in itself has it's issues in the first place. Does MS apply some crazy wizardy to make Gametrailers ANY BETTER? or is convenience really worth that much to some people. Artificial IS artificial, No matter how many concussions you obtained in your life, or misguided upbringing, it's wrong and dirty of MS to charge for services that are readily available, many that one may already be paying for their own subscriptions as it is, choice or not. There are such things as bad choices, as this one is just stupid. If MS wants to add REAL value they need to ACTUALLY come up with real exclusive services and content that you actually cannot access anywhere else.


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  21. #65
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    not worth it... deleted.
    Last edited by Cuguy; 08-28-2013 at 18:34.

  22. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    That "logic" doesn't make sense. So because you have to pay for multiplayer, it is same thing as paying for streaming services while on the other services you don't have to?
    You're missing his point. He's saying that you can play multiplayer games on the PC for free so why pay to play games like BF, CoD, etc on the One and PS4.

    This is similar to saying that you can watch Netflix or Hulu Plus on the PC for no extra charge so why put it behind a paywall on Live.

    I don't agree with what MS is doing but Gold customers aren't giving them any reason to change.

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  23. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    That "logic" doesn't make sense. So because you have to pay for multiplayer, it is same thing as paying for streaming services while on the other services you don't have to?
    It makes 110% sense. It's the same thing. Because you can get multiplayer free, no pay wall, on PC...but people like MS and Sony charge you for MP behind a pay wall.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    It makes 110% sense. It's the same thing. Because you can get multiplayer free, no pay wall, on PC...but people like MS and Sony charge you for MP behind a pay wall.
    And MS charges for streaming apps etc. while Sony doesn't. No, it doesn't make sense. You keep talking about online multiplayer, which has nothing to do with Netflix and others. Sony isn't only one charging for multiplayer, yet MS is only one charging for access to apps.
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  25. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    And MS charges for streaming apps etc. while Sony doesn't. No, it doesn't make sense. You keep talking about online multiplayer, which has nothing to do with Netflix and others. Sony isn't only one charging for multiplayer, yet MS is only one charging for access to apps.
    My work here is done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    You're missing his point. He's saying that you can play multiplayer games on the PC for free so why pay to play games like BF, CoD, etc on the One and PS4.

    This is similar to saying that you can watch Netflix or Hulu Plus on the PC for no extra charge so why put it behind a paywall on Live.

    I don't agree with what MS is doing but Gold customers aren't giving them any reason to change.

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    Microsoft actually had a plan to make paywall on PC, but was eventually scratched as it wasn't obviously going to work.
    Anyway, it's not really same. PC is very different platform compared to closed consoles. On PC you always have change to have someone else making better service than your own. See that happening on consoles. Try and make system like Origin and make all online playing behind paywall and see how that works. Yes, it would have been great if PS4's multiplayer would be free, but it isn't, just as it isn't on X1. X1 however is only one charging for all the apps.
    Metaphors are bad in the sense, that examples rarely actually work.

    My work here is done.
    Mkay.
    Last edited by Mael Duin; 08-28-2013 at 21:18.
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  27. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    My work here is done.
    Agreed. You could say the sky is blue and get an arguement around here

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  29. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    To generate revenue? The Playstation is now charging for online, which they said they wouldn't do. But they were losing money, and MS was making money. But why charge for online play when they don't charge for it on PC? People can online game free on PC all day and night, but they CHOOSE to buy a PS or Xbox an choose to pay to play online. That is puzzling to many...think about it. Everyone has a PC, games are cheaper on PC, games perform better on PC, online gaming is free on PC, online communities like Steam are free on PC. Yet there are 160 million PS3 and 360 owners paying to play online, paying more for games, paying $300-$400 for consoles when they already have PC's, getting 720p and sub hd games running at 30 fps.

    So the PS and Xbox has a HUGE HUGE pay wall for access to gaming, and yet everyone swallows it up.
    I'm just talking about services like Netflix, dude. I have no problem with paywalls for online gaming. It isn't a big deal to me since I have several devices that have Netflix and I have Gold on one of my 360s. But if I was a casual gamer who didn't play online then services that are and are not behind the paywall would be a factor in what console I choose.
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  31. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3seeker View Post
    or is convenience really worth that much to some people. Artificial IS artificial, No matter how many concussions you obtained in your life, or misguided upbringing, it's wrong and dirty of MS to charge for services that are readily available, many that one may already be paying for their own subscriptions as it is, choice or not..
    Convenience is very important. Since kinect is included with all X1 those apps will offer even more convince that can only be found on the X1. Voice. Won't have to pick up a controller to navigate.

    If you've ever paid an ATM fee to get your own money you paid it because it was convenient. MS is the equivalent of a bank in this aspect. Why go to a bank and pay a fee to get your own money out when your own bank won't charge you? Convenience.

    Have you ever paid an ATM fee? I hope not because you'll be leaning towards the hypocritical side of things.

    MS is able to do what they do because their service is good, soon to be seamless, and convenient. The apps will all start to separate themselves to be better than the competition simply because of voice.

    Quote Originally Posted by D3seeker View Post
    it's wrong and dirty of MS to charge for services that are readily available, many that one may already be paying for their own subscriptions as it is, choice or not..
    I guess that would also make Sony wrong and dirty since online play is available on the PC for free. And then you look closer you come to find that it's not dirt but filth because they've been spouting that 'we don't believe you should charge for online' bull$#@! for 6 yrs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier 95B View Post
    My work here is done.
    bravo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    Microsoft actually had a plan to make paywall on PC, but was eventually scratched as it wasn't obviously going to work.
    Anyway, it's not really same. PC is very different platform compared to closed consoles. On PC you always have change to have someone else making better service than your own. See that happening on consoles. Try and make system like Origin and make all online playing behind paywall and see how that works. Yes, it would have been great if PS4's multiplayer would be free, but it isn't, just as it isn't on X1. X1 however is only one charging for all the apps.
    Metaphors are bad in the sense, that examples rarely actually work.
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  32. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    You don't have to pay twice, Netflix. It's a choice. I find it sad that folks consider that as having to pay for it.
    Trust me, we understand it's a choice. No one is saying it isn't one. We're saying it does not add value to the service. By admission from everyone who seems to be OK with it proves that much (they didn't sign up for gold to access Netflix.) It's just an artificial bullet point.

    Microsoft would benefit more by removing the XBL paywall and increasing the value of their console. People aren't signing up for XBL because of Netflix, Amazon Instant video etc. That's the point.

    I was going to post almost the same thing...

    It was "bragged" upon that online play was free with the Playstation brand, and Xbox Gold was dragged to hell and back, time and time again, over having to pay for online. Well, it's here now for us PS owners. Soldier hit the head/nail perfectly with that.
    Only if you look at it from a Xbox vs PlayStation perspective [that he hit the head/nail.] Microsoft has nothing to do with Netflix, Amazon services etc other than allowing them to be on their box.

    I just don't see how that [what he said/brought up] relates with this, honestly.
    Last edited by sainraja; 08-29-2013 at 03:35.

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