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  1. #1
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    The Reality: PS4 Gamescom BF4 graphics: PC king for now and years ahead

    There is no denying it. These nextgen consoles are probably the first time the technology in them is far surpassed by high-end PC technology available right now.

    There are off-screen captures of the PS4 playing Battlefield 4 from Gamescom and it looks like a low-end PC is playing it. Maybe it needs to be optimized more, but there was no way a low-end last generation graphics card with a low end multi-core tablet PC CPU was going to match an overclocked i7-4770 CPU with 32GB of RAM and a GTX780 graphics card. But then, you are talking about a PC that is approaching $4,000 versus a console that is $400.

    Maybe BF4 isn't the best example and Killzone Shadowfall looks a lot better but they just don't match a high-end gaming PC graphics, especially since more 4K monitors are starting to show up.

    This isn't a bad thing, the consoles are all about the console environment and the 1080p is a big step up except when the game can't achieve it for whatever reason. At least, that removes one argument this coming nextgen. The PC version is going to be the best graphics version but with the PC market dwindling, there will be fewer really good games where graphics are the primary feature.
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    I don't think there is such a thing as a $4000 PC. $800 is all you need to build a PC from scratch with a powerful GeForce 780 GTX. But PC has always had better graphics. A GeForce 780 GTX is easily over twice the power of the PS4 and Xbox One. In the end, this is no surprise.

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    You guys underestimate Mark Cerny and optimized hardware. BF4 is just a stupid cross-gen, multi-platform title that looks exactly like it's current-gen predecessor, atleast in multiplayer. It's really nothing special when it comes to graphics, so the fact that PS4 has worse graphics than the PC version just tells me developers who have way too much to worry about with cross-gen and multi-platform. Hence not being able to optimize properly. And also because of the fact that PS4 is new hardware.

    Let PS4's exclusives do the talking. Because all of them look lightyears ahead of any games I've seen on PC, and I play them on a i7 3770k and gtx 670.
    Last edited by KungMartin90; 08-26-2013 at 00:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I don't think there is such a thing as a $4000 PC. $800 is all you need to build a PC from scratch with a powerful GeForce 780 GTX. But PC has always had better graphics. A GeForce 780 GTX is easily over twice the power of the PS4 and Xbox One. In the end, this is no surprise.
    Just the GTX780 is $650. The i7-4770K is about $350. 32GB DDR3 RAM is about $300. That's $1,300 right there, then there is the motherboard, the power supply, the case, the Blu-ray drive, the SSD and hard drives. You aren't going to end up with anything decent for less than $3000. Right now, the upper resolution is 2.5K, 2560 by 1600. The GTX780 supports 4K, 4096 by 2560. This PC would have about 4 times the power of the PS4 and the XBone.

    The proof is in the multiplayer. A PC like this would have no problem with 120fps at 1080p, with all the graphics settings set to Ultra. The console devs are struggling with getting steady 60fps at 1080p, and that is with some downgrading of T&L. The big change is that the console market is so big, it can drive what games make it to the PC, versus a game designed for the PC and poorly ported to the consoles. Still, this really is the first time there has been such a wide divide between the power of a current gen PC and next gen consoles. And that gap looks like it will be widening over the next few years. (It shows in the Drive Club off-screen shots also).
    Last edited by Bligmerk; 08-26-2013 at 00:44.
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  6. #5
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    i have i7 4770k. It does not do anything in terms of gaming...

    As for graphics, I am almost positive 7870 can play better than what they showed(Based on BF3), so let's hope it is programming issue.

    Edit
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...rk,3148-6.html

    BF3 runs on 7870 with 2560x1440 res at around 30 fps. Rule of thumb is that you can expect at least double the performance on close console. You do the math.

    I do not see much reason for 1080P at 60 fps besides manpower they may be lacking due to split across 5 consoles.

    I doubt we will see much difference at 1080P res for a while once things get streamlined.
    Last edited by CaptainZ; 08-26-2013 at 00:49.

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    ^ yes I believe BF4 in particular is a bad example to go by and who knows if the cross gen dev is holding the team back from investing more time into optimizing their engine for next gen.

    Its clear PC will continue to widen the power gap but at the cost of price/energy/heat. Honestly some of the stuff we have been shown (The Division, The Order, Dark Sorcerer etc) have blown me away considering the gen hasn't even started yet so I say we will see great things

    Last edited by Itachi; 08-26-2013 at 01:48.

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    It makes no difference to me what a hi end pc can do.

    Im interested in the ps4 and the $#@! ton of games that will be out for it.

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    PC will always be king when it comes to graphics, but let's not forget consoles are the ones making things happen in the game industry. Sure, there always have been games for PC, but if it weren't for consoles there wouldn't be the amazing games that are out there and that will come out, and why's that? Because if there were no consoles at all the gaming industry would not be as huge and important as it is, there would still be developers doing great games on PCs but the average consumer would most definitely not turn into PC for gaming when you have to spend at least $1000 for a decent/regular gaming setup hence the investment of great AAA games would not be worth it for developers on PC and it would be pretty much all about indie looking kind of games.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    ^ yes I believe BF4 in particular is a bad example to go by and who know if the cross gen dev is holding the team back from investing more time into optimizing their engine for next gen.

    Its clear PC will continue to widen the power gap but at the cost of price/energy/heat. Honestly some of the stuff we have been shown (The Division, The Order, Dark Sorcerer etc) have blown me away considering the gen hasn't even started yet so I say we will see great things


    lol that logic! we dont need that

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    I'd rather have a PS4 than a PC that produces graphics far superior. I do have a decent PC but I prefer consoles

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    Its got flipped-turned upside down since the late 80s early 90s. Back then the average home PC could not run even side scrollers, instead when the player reached the edge of the screen then the screen was redrawn.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainZ View Post
    BF3 runs on 7870 with 2560x1440 res at around 30 fps. Rule of thumb is that you can expect at least double the performance on close console. You do the math.
    LMAO u guys are crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    Just the GTX780 is $650. The i7-4770K is about $350. 32GB DDR3 RAM is about $300. That's $1,300 right there, then there is the motherboard, the power supply, the case, the Blu-ray drive, the SSD and hard drives. You aren't going to end up with anything decent for less than $3000. Right now, the upper resolution is 2.5K, 2560 by 1600. The GTX780 supports 4K, 4096 by 2560. This PC would have about 4 times the power of the PS4 and the XBone.

    The proof is in the multiplayer. A PC like this would have no problem with 120fps at 1080p, with all the graphics settings set to Ultra. The console devs are struggling with getting steady 60fps at 1080p, and that is with some downgrading of T&L. The big change is that the console market is so big, it can drive what games make it to the PC, versus a game designed for the PC and poorly ported to the consoles. Still, this really is the first time there has been such a wide divide between the power of a current gen PC and next gen consoles. And that gap looks like it will be widening over the next few years. (It shows in the Drive Club off-screen shots also).
    Why would you need 32GB of DDR3 or an i7 Extreme Edition processor? You are building PC specs just for the sake of it. There aren't any games that even use 32GB.

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  18. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    LMAO u guys are crazy.
    uneducated comment... I already have $1100 PC gig.

    I linked 7870 running 30 fps. and double performance on closed system was said by Carmack and some other devs.

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    ehh, with a decent GPU and a SSD including the case with other things added also. You are looking at anywhere from $900 to $1000. That is if you don't have other PC parts that you can recycle into your newer build.

    For the past few years the PC tech was changing to fast compared to the times before 2007. So fast in fact I couldn't even keep up with PC tech. What I'm seeing now is the PC tech, GPU's and CPU's. It's all starting to slow down a little bit and that is actually a good imo. Once PCI express hit, it was changing way to fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    lol that logic! we dont need that
    Am I being baited here? I'll bite anways.
    Explain to me why what I said is wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Am I being baited here? I'll bite anways.
    Explain to me why what I said is wrong
    I'm sure he was being ironic. He's basically agreeing with you.

    I think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KungMartin90 View Post
    I'm sure he was being ironic. He's basically agreeing with you.

    I think?
    Yeah or that

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    Sorry but you can't compare a self contained games console which hasn't been released yet or even begun to have it's full potential realised to a top tier PC. People readily forget that PC games are built for multiple specs, whereas because consoles have a locked down architecture it's full potential can constantly be tapped, and this will take years just like it did on every previous generation.

    I don't want this forum to start inviting in PC elitists because they are IMO the worst kind of fanboy.
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  26. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    LMAO u guys are crazy.
    No, he's right. Consoles, roughly, get twice the performance or so compared to PC's of similar specs. This was said by Carmack himself, who is widely considered to be a game tech genius.

    Some quotes from him reaffirming what is being said here:

    JC...It's still a lot that can be exploited in there. I mean, we did know up front, "Here's the memory we have, here's the amount of processing cycles we have." [But] there're still plenty of alternate directions that we could wind up looking at. It is interesting that on the PC side, we have systems that are 10 times more powerful than the consoles. But it's frustrating in that a lot of the PC systems that are many times more powerful still have trouble holding the same 60 frames-per-second rate because of API overhead, API clocking issues, and things like that. We're working with Intel and Nvidia on all these issues, but it is kind of frustrating when I know that the hardware is vastly more powerful but because we don't have quite as tight control over it, a lot of power goes to waste.
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/e3-2011...n-rage-6318725

    DX11 has fixed things, it's just a better iteration of DX than its predecessors. Speeds things up.

    Consoles target a specific pre determined (by the devs) framerate and resolution. They don't have to worry about crazy XHD or multiple monitors. The developers don't have to concern themselves with variations to the console hardware- they all perform the exact same. There's no need for PC level graphics API or anything that stands inbetween the programmer and the hardware. Further, the consoles themselves are normally balanced out or have a particular synergy of components in mind. This isn't to say that they're always "perfectly balanced", merely that the components were engineered to work together in the closed box.

    Finally, consoles don't have to worry about all the shenanigans that PC's do when it comes to the OS. Yes, there are OS resources taken up on consoles but its still fairly 'simple' (compared to say Win7\Win and static. When it does change it's for the good, and gives developers more performance.

    It doesn't make the PS4 some 'super computer', but it makes it a hell of a little gaming machine.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 08-26-2013 at 02:59.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    Just the GTX780 is $650. The i7-4770K is about $350. 32GB DDR3 RAM is about $300. That's $1,300 right there, then there is the motherboard, the power supply, the case, the Blu-ray drive, the SSD and hard drives. You aren't going to end up with anything decent for less than $3000. Right now, the upper resolution is 2.5K, 2560 by 1600. The GTX780 supports 4K, 4096 by 2560. This PC would have about 4 times the power of the PS4 and the XBone.

    The proof is in the multiplayer. A PC like this would have no problem with 120fps at 1080p, with all the graphics settings set to Ultra. The console devs are struggling with getting steady 60fps at 1080p, and that is with some downgrading of T&L. The big change is that the console market is so big, it can drive what games make it to the PC, versus a game designed for the PC and poorly ported to the consoles. Still, this really is the first time there has been such a wide divide between the power of a current gen PC and next gen consoles. And that gap looks like it will be widening over the next few years. (It shows in the Drive Club off-screen shots also).
    Yea, if you're doing something other than gaming and are video editing/rendering and all that type of stuff, then I would agree with those specs. For a gaming PC, you really only need 8GB of RAM preferably at 1866. You could go higher but that's more than enough and you don't need the next best GPU on the market. the AMD 7870 is still doing extremely well at this point in time which so far has been a wonderful long lasting GPU.

    While that PC would have 4 times the power, it still going to turn to $#@! and most likely needing to be updated after 5 to 6 years with a top end high quality rig like that. Doesn't matter how you put it and the games maxing that out. some people actually do pay 4k and over-do it just for the sake of gaming. If you wanted to get a high end GPU than you can actually skimp on the CPU and put that money towards a better GPU because the FPS will increase more on a GPU compared to a CPU.

  28. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    ^ yes I believe BF4 in particular is a bad example to go by and who knows if the cross gen dev is holding the team back from investing more time into optimizing their engine for next gen.

    Its clear PC will continue to widen the power gap but at the cost of price/energy/heat. Honestly some of the stuff we have been shown (The Division, The Order, Dark Sorcerer etc) have blown me away considering the gen hasn't even started yet so I say we will see great things

    Dear God Fall of Man was such an ugly game.

    That was the first next-gen game I played (played a demo of it at Target), and my God was it disappointing.

    I was coming off PS2 games mind you and this was the first PS3 or even 360 game I ever played.

    PS3 launch games in general looked terrible. Worse than 360 launch games. The only good looking launch game for the PS3 was Genji (which I played recently and it still holds up well).

  29. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi View Post
    Am I being baited here? I'll bite anways.
    Explain to me why what I said is wrong
    Was agreeing with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    No, he's right. Consoles, roughly, get twice the performance or so compared to PC's of similar specs. This was said by Carmack himself, who is widely considered to be a game tech genius.
    To be fair JC was pushing the limits with Id Tech 5. It hits the API's heavily due to forcing the mega texturing through a pipeline not designed for it.

    But like you said these consoles simply have more efficient API's running far closer to the hardware, even MS has their own X1 specific version of the Direct X API's.

    Finally, consoles don't have to worry about all the shenanigans that PC's do when it comes to the OS. Yes, there are OS resources taken up on consoles but its still fairly 'simple' (compared to say Win7\Win and static. When it does change it's for the good, and gives developers more performance.


    I do somewhat worry that the OS's in these machines are starting to get a little to heavy. They definitely are in terms of memory requirements. CPU wise it is a much better at the moment at least, it also helps that the main OS and the game OS's are essentially sandboxed from each other.

  31. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    No, he's right. Consoles, roughly, get twice the performance or so compared to PC's of similar specs. This was said by Carmack himself, who is widely considered to be a game tech genius.

    Some quotes from him reaffirming what is being said here:



    http://www.gamespot.com/news/e3-2011...n-rage-6318725

    DX11 has fixed things, it's just a better iteration of DX than its predecessors. Speeds things up.

    Consoles target a specific pre determined (by the devs) framerate and resolution. They don't have to worry about crazy XHD or multiple monitors. The developers don't have to concern themselves with variations to the console hardware- they all perform the exact same. There's no need for PC level graphics API or anything that stands inbetween the programmer and the hardware. Further, the consoles themselves are normally balanced out or have a particular synergy of components in mind. This isn't to say that they're always "perfectly balanced", merely that the components were engineered to work together in the closed box.

    Finally, consoles don't have to worry about all the shenanigans that PC's do when it comes to the OS. Yes, there are OS resources taken up on consoles but its still fairly 'simple' (compared to say Win7\Win and static. When it does change it's for the good, and gives developers more performance.

    It doesn't make the PS4 some 'super computer', but it makes it a hell of a little gaming machine.
    Finally, someone that knows what he is talking about. Here is what puzzles me though. Why do you think it is only running on 720P?

    I do not get it. BF3 runs on 7870 with 2560x1440 res at around 30 fps. Unless BF4 is humongous leap from BF3, it does not make sense.

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