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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    People coming out of Gamescom are saying BF4 was running on a PC with two 7990 GPU in crossfire. Those are $700 each, so there is really no comparison. There are some people with gaming PC's that have 3 GTX780, so if those are included, the gap between the nextgen consoles is even wider. BF4 probably isn't the best barometer and the high-def off-screen video of BF4 on one of the Gamescom PC's compared to the PS4 will give a more measurable idea of how wide the gap is. Yeah, on the PC market, that was *THE OVERALL MARKET*, not the hardcore PC gamer core. That is the substance of this situation, that PC's are still getting very good game selections with many multiplatform titles that are the better version on the PC. It is an extension of the best combination for the avid gamer which was the PS3 and a gaming PC, moving on to the best combination now is a PS4 and a gaming PC.
    If a console is going to compete with a PC, it only has to compete with the lower spec / mid-spec PC. Even the gpu in the PS4 is just one under the 7870, so it's basically a 7860. The games that will utilize a full on high end graphics card is few and far between. So much so that you will most likely only see 2 games that fully utilize that GPU until a new GPU hits the shelves and once that one game fully utilizes that GPU it will be to much for the GPU before that.

    Having 3 GTX 780 in a PC is beyond pointless. While it's clearly an enthusiast that is doing that. Show me a game that is taking advantage of all three of those GPU's and I may in fact eat a spider. o.O

  2. #77
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    double post.
    Last edited by Demi_God; 10-07-2013 at 02:42.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    Having 3 GTX 780 in a PC is beyond pointless. While it's clearly an enthusiast that is doing that. Show me a game that is taking advantage of all three of those GPU's and I may in fact eat a spider. If all that power isn't going to be used, it's pretty pointless.
    I'm sure there is some obscure non interactive demo that someone has convinced themselves of is totally worth $2000. I believe it's called 3Dmark.

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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by daLa View Post
    I remember the days when we only and mostly discussed about consoles and not PCs lol.
    They weren't directly competing with PCs then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post

    Having 3 GTX 780 in a PC is beyond pointless. While it's clearly an enthusiast that is doing that. Show me a game that is taking advantage of all three of those GPU's and I may in fact eat a spider. o.O

    Have you ever seen Crysis 3 on three monitors at 5760X1080 resolution?

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    PCs will always be ahead. Even aside from graphics, consoles still can't do mods (they can but the devs are just lazy at implementing them, UT3 has proven this).

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  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    If a console is going to compete with a PC, it only has to compete with the lower spec / mid-spec PC. Even the gpu in the PS4 is just one under the 7870, so it's basically a 7860. The games that will utilize a full on high end graphics card is few and far between. So much so that you will most likely only see 2 games that fully utilize that GPU until a new GPU hits the shelves and once that one game fully utilizes that GPU it will be to much for the GPU before that.

    Having 3 GTX 780 in a PC is beyond pointless. While it's clearly an enthusiast that is doing that. Show me a game that is taking advantage of all three of those GPU's and I may in fact eat a spider. If all that power isn't going to be used, it's pretty pointless.
    If you wan't to play at bigger resolutions than 1080p then 1 GTX780 isn't going to cut it. I play at 1080p and I'm still getting ready to drop my second 780 in there soon.

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Have you ever seen Crysis 3 on three monitors at 5760X1080 resolution?
    I don't know why you'd have three monitors, why not just a single big one?

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    Cause you can't find a display that big to show 5760x1080


    and it's not nearly half as cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Cause you can't find a display that big to show 5760x1080


    and it's not nearly half as cool
    Ah, right. I liked the idea of it, but I really disliked the black borders of the screens, they really distract me.

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    Yeah the borders have always made me wonder how i'd feel about it... then i see a 3 screen set up and i get jealous

    I believe our very own Varsh has a 3 screen display!

  13. #87
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    Running at 120Hz and 3D at that too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sneezymarble View Post
    The 2x efficiency advantage isn't some law. Carmack said that in 2011, and he said it relative the console/PC development landscape at the time. We're not likely to as high an efficiency gap between console and PC due to the similarity in the architectures and the benefit of using higher level development environments that trade platform specific performance tweaks in favor or development ease and lower development costs.
    To the contrary, to the extent that the consoles have some form of hUMA, they have a distinctly superior architecture. Apparently, in at least some cases, both CPU and GPU can use the exact same addressing, and if they have cache coherence, can even work on the same structures at the same time. Avoiding the need to move data between CPU and GPU is a serious efficiency improvement, and no PC can do that. A new PC architecture would be required.

    A future AMD APU could be the first PC hUMA example, but with a basic performance of less than the consoles, and even that still would not support hUMA on a separate GPU, which is where one could gain a big advantage. My guess is that when the whole hardware package does hUMA, and when software is redesigned to exploit it, a factor of 3x or more is available (1.5x from using GPU processors more intensely, 2x from enhanced use of complex non-$#@!genous structures with in-structure pointers). And then there would be that original 2x console factor, for a fixed known environment, a lighter OS, and lighter running background functions.

    A combined factor of 6x probably overstates things, but there will be some significant advantage, and that will not apply to old code. But to gain whatever advantage there is, at least some console games will be coded for hUMA and will not work on a PC video card without major changes. If hUMA is shown to be worthwhile, we could see more of a separation between PC and console than we have now, even though all the machines will be x86 compatible. Then the PC and console marketing channels would each have to support their own customization costs, and it just might be that PC gaming would have the much harder task and smaller budget to do it.

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  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    If you wan't to play at bigger resolutions than 1080p then 1 GTX780 isn't going to cut it. I play at 1080p and I'm still getting ready to drop my second 780 in there soon.
    WHAT? you should be able to run games at 1920x1200 with that GPU. If you can't, they must have been making those GPU's much weaker. I already know the BS when it comes to people deflating GPU's for the sake of SLI and to be honest, you aren't "Toms Hardware" here. lol Triple GTX 780's, that is what enthusiasts use and that is their choice. But don't tell me you are already to drop another 780 in there because that one is struggling to keep up. If that's the case than those drivers are the problem.
    Last edited by Demi_God; 08-28-2013 at 22:55.

  17. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    WHAT? you should be able to run games at 1920x1200 with that GPU. If you can't, they must have been making those GPU's much weaker. I already know the BS when it comes to people deflating GPU's for the sake of SLI and to be honest, you aren't "Toms Hardware" here. lol Triple GTX 780's, that is what enthusiasts use and that is their choice. But don't tell me you are already to drop another 780 in there because that one is struggling to keep up. If that's the case than those drivers are the problem.
    Oh.. Yeah my system plays everything I've thrown at it. Without hiccuping. It can drop down a bit when playing in 3D though.

    ]truth be told I could be quite happy to keep just the one 780 inside but I want to buy another for my birthday. And especially seeing as I'm debating buying a 2560x1440 monitor soon-ish. Either as soon as a 120Hz one is released or if I actually decide to just overclock one.


    BBK. Tapatalking.

  18. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    Yes the ps4 is mind blowing but in about 6 months pcs will pass it
    The Home Computer is at least 10 years ahead, for the past 5 years at least PC's have been running 8 core and 12 core CPU's, up to 32GB of RAM and I think the most you can get at the moment is 64GB on a Mac Pro pretty sure so of course "Personal Computers" are way ahead, they are the the foundation point for new technologies and breakthroughs and the mother of all electronics we buy
    " A Toll's a toll and a roll's a roll. If we don't get no toll's, then we don't eat no roll's"

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    That was a trow back into the past.


    30.82Mbps<--Download----Upload-->22.80Mbps

  20. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriharr View Post
    The Home Computer is at least 10 years ahead, for the past 5 years at least PC's have been running 8 core and 12 core CPU's, up to 32GB of RAM and I think the most you can get at the moment is 64GB on a Mac Pro pretty sure so of course "Personal Computers" are way ahead, they are the the foundation point for new technologies and breakthroughs and the mother of all electronics we buy
    I disagree fully. Just because they have the ability to have insane amounts of RAM or CPU speeds, doesn't mean anything if only a fraction is going to be utilized.

    as for being the pinnacle of technology, again disagree. while PC certainly contributes in this category, there have been a lot more advancements being made in the console area and not to mention, PCs get a push due to consoles for making 64-bit OS mandatory for next-gen games.

    Otherwise, PCs would never make that jump. For example, 64-bit CPUs have been around for over a decade and yet they were only popularized in the mid 2000s and only now we're getting decent support for 64-bit OSs.

    They're far ahead in specs but not in real world performance that is being "utilized". Of course, if you ran a test, PCs would far surpass the consoles but PCs have a lot of limitations due to being an uber all-in-one machines.

    The limitation is the market. Many people do not upgrade and still want to enjoy PC games and thus you're stuck with supporting all sorts of specs...so if you focus on the power, you lose sales, if you focus on the sales, you lose the ability to be as creative or as ambitious as you'd like. You have to find a good balance...in doing so, you're not much further off than consoles in power that will be utilized, even less so this generation than any other previously.

  21. #95
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    4K for a pc lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    Yea, if you're doing something other than gaming and are video editing/rendering and all that type of stuff, then I would agree with those specs. For a gaming PC, you really only need 8GB of RAM preferably at 1866. You could go higher but that's more than enough and you don't need the next best GPU on the market. the AMD 7870 is still doing extremely well at this point in time which so far has been a wonderful long lasting GPU.

    While that PC would have 4 times the power, it still going to turn to $#@! and most likely needing to be updated after 5 to 6 years with a top end high quality rig like that. Doesn't matter how you put it and the games maxing that out. some people actually do pay 4k and over-do it just for the sake of gaming. If you wanted to get a high end GPU than you can actually skimp on the CPU and put that money towards a better GPU because the FPS will increase more on a GPU compared to a CPU.
    you don't need to spend $4000 on a PC to compete with the next gen consoles you do not need an i7 4770 extreme all you need is an i5 because fps wise in games there is very little to no difference also you don't need 32GB of high end ram 8GB of 2133mhz will set you back less than $100 you also don't need a high end mainboard a $50 mainboard will do the job. all in all you would only need to spend $400 - $600 on a pc that will be more than capable of playing BF4 at the same resolution and graphics as the next gen consoles we are talking mid ranged GPU and cpu's here. you have to bare in mind that what keeps the consoles price so low is that the tech behind them is 2 - 4 years older than the PC. IE the 8 core jaguar cpu in the consoles are equal to an i3 the gpu in the consoles are = to an amd 7870 at max. also you are all forgetting that these next gen consoles are basically a mini PC without the aid to upgrade. I hate it when you get console fanboys banging on about how pricey pc's are and the fact of the matter is you don't need to spend mega money on a pc to compete with consoles. people spend mega money on a pc is because they want to and want to play the games at higher res and better fps and on better server for multiplayer but at the end of the day its all down to personal preference people will buy what they want and what they like the most, some people don't like playing with a mouse and keyboard and some people hate playing with game pads. these next gen consoles are helping the PC so much as from when they are released it will be far easier to port games over from console to PC has it was before meaning even more game releases for PC. without the consoles PC hardware would slow down and cost even more so us PC users should think ourselves lucky that the consoles are still around and will still be around for years to come driving down PC component prices. my PC consists of an I7 4770k and a GTX780 and should last me at least 5 years it cost me 1200 in total but it didn't have to cost me that much as I bought things I didn't need but I just wanted them I could have halved the price if I had to. but when you look at the price of it and compare it to consoles there isn't much difference and here is why ( xbox 360 or ps3 at the time of launch 400, ps4 xbox one will be roughly 400 again total 800 so far add up all the savings on games over all them years and years to come at roughly 10 per game " a console game costing around 40 - 50 will cost 30 - 40 on PC " the ps3 was released in 2006 7 years ago so the saving already will be more than 200 and then the next gen will be around for maybe another 6 years before the next gen after them so your talking over 400 so as you can see that my 1200 PC isn't really costing me as much as a console gamer its just that I prefer PC over consoles because I do many other things too and enjoy sitting at my rather large computer desk while doing it, and yes I also have a console too ( xbox 360 with Kinect ). i'm not being a fanboy i'm just stating facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I disagree fully. Just because they have the ability to have insane amounts of RAM or CPU speeds, doesn't mean anything if only a fraction is going to be utilized.

    as for being the pinnacle of technology, again disagree. while PC certainly contributes in this category, there have been a lot more advancements being made in the console area and not to mention, PCs get a push due to consoles for making 64-bit OS mandatory for next-gen games.

    Otherwise, PCs would never make that jump. For example, 64-bit CPUs have been around for over a decade and yet they were only popularized in the mid 2000s and only now we're getting decent support for 64-bit OSs.

    They're far ahead in specs but not in real world performance that is being "utilized". Of course, if you ran a test, PCs would far surpass the consoles but PCs have a lot of limitations due to being an uber all-in-one machines.

    The limitation is the market. Many people do not upgrade and still want to enjoy PC games and thus you're stuck with supporting all sorts of specs...so if you focus on the power, you lose sales, if you focus on the sales, you lose the ability to be as creative or as ambitious as you'd like. You have to find a good balance...in doing so, you're not much further off than consoles in power that will be utilized, even less so this generation than any other previously.
    and yet I disagree with both of you ( Chriharr ) you can get 64GB of ram on PC if needed 12 core cpu is for servers not for home computing the 8 core your talking about is an AMD 8 core cpu which intel quad core IE i7 4th gen out performs.

    ( Sufi ) chriharr is almost correct about consoles and you are way out in terms of tech on consoles. consoles do one thing good which is what they are meant to do and that's plays games everything else they do is secondary as for the hardware, they are way behind the tech from the PC and Mac, this is what keeps the price so low. the CPU in the consoles are just older tech revamped for the consoles the GPU used for consoles are older cut down versions of what was available for PC's and Mac's 2- 4 years ago, the GDDR5 that is in the Consoles have been on PC GPU's way before the consoles. both platforms help each other. consoles give the PC manufactures a kick up the backside and stops them from slacking because if they did slack then there would be no sales for PC hardware. PC's help the consoles in the way of hardware that has been developed for the PC enthusiast which appear in the next gen consoles. I agree its easier for the Devs to make games for consoles as it is for them to do so for PC as there are so many specs on a PC " OS is the major one then there is CPU and GPU along with RAM " but as more and more people move over from older OS'es like XP " yes some people still have XP " and Vista its becoming easier for Devs as windows 7 and windows 8 are almost identical in the way they work.

  23. #97
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    sir you do not understand the context that i speak from. thank you for the reply however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azorees View Post
    you don't need to spend $4000 on a PC to compete with the next gen consoles you do not need an i7 4770 extreme all you need is an i5 because fps wise in games there is very little to no difference also you don't need 32GB of high end ram 8GB of 2133mhz will set you back less than $100 you also don't need a high end mainboard a $50 mainboard will do the job. all in all you would only need to spend $400 - $600 on a pc that will be more than capable of playing BF4 at the same resolution and graphics as the next gen consoles we are talking mid ranged GPU and cpu's here. you have to bare in mind that what keeps the consoles price so low is that the tech behind them is 2 - 4 years older than the PC. IE the 8 core jaguar cpu in the consoles are equal to an i3 the gpu in the consoles are = to an amd 7870 at max. also you are all forgetting that these next gen consoles are basically a mini PC without the aid to upgrade. I hate it when you get console fanboys banging on about how pricey pc's are and the fact of the matter is you don't need to spend mega money on a pc to compete with consoles. people spend mega money on a pc is because they want to and want to play the games at higher res and better fps and on better server for multiplayer but at the end of the day its all down to personal preference people will buy what they want and what they like the most, some people don't like playing with a mouse and keyboard and some people hate playing with game pads. these next gen consoles are helping the PC so much as from when they are released it will be far easier to port games over from console to PC has it was before meaning even more game releases for PC. without the consoles PC hardware would slow down and cost even more so us PC users should think ourselves lucky that the consoles are still around and will still be around for years to come driving down PC component prices. my PC consists of an I7 4770k and a GTX780 and should last me at least 5 years it cost me 1200 in total but it didn't have to cost me that much as I bought things I didn't need but I just wanted them I could have halved the price if I had to. but when you look at the price of it and compare it to consoles there isn't much difference and here is why ( xbox 360 or ps3 at the time of launch 400, ps4 xbox one will be roughly 400 again total 800 so far add up all the savings on games over all them years and years to come at roughly 10 per game " a console game costing around 40 - 50 will cost 30 - 40 on PC " the ps3 was released in 2006 7 years ago so the saving already will be more than 200 and then the next gen will be around for maybe another 6 years before the next gen after them so your talking over 400 so as you can see that my 1200 PC isn't really costing me as much as a console gamer its just that I prefer PC over consoles because I do many other things too and enjoy sitting at my rather large computer desk while doing it, and yes I also have a console too ( xbox 360 with Kinect ). i'm not being a fanboy i'm just stating facts.

    I have no idea why you quoted my post

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    Quote Originally Posted by daLa View Post
    PC will always be king when it comes to graphics, but let's not forget consoles are the ones making things happen in the game industry. Sure, there always have been games for PC, but if it weren't for consoles there wouldn't be the amazing games that are out there and that will come out, and why's that? Because if there were no consoles at all the gaming industry would not be as huge and important as it is, there would still be developers doing great games on PCs but the average consumer would most definitely not turn into PC for gaming when you have to spend at least $1000 for a decent/regular gaming setup hence the investment of great AAA games would not be worth it for developers on PC and it would be pretty much all about indie looking kind of games.

    Thats not quite true. Most innovation has long since been gone and it's due to consoles. Mainly due to games such as COD and such being such big sellers...no one wants to try anything new.

    Is that true accross the board? No. Look at Heavy Rain on the PS3....in fact the PS3 is not nearly as bad.

    But for unique games or not the norm...you go to indie games on the PC.

    As for graphics....I'm quite sick of the talk about next gen consoles being better than PC. It's not that big of a deal. The games look good enough this gen that it shouldn't be a big deal. I love my PS3....b/c of the games it has that I can't get on PC.

    I don't even love my PC most b/c of the graphics....it just gives me that feel that consoles do not.

    As for next gen graphics....they are GREAT!!! That doesn't mean that they will beat PC as no one has seen a next gen PC game and not many devs make PC only games and/or truly optimize their games for PC....so PC will still be lagging here and there.

    Either way it doesn't matter. Consoles are a big deal....so this dead horse is sort of worthless to beat. There is no real battle to be won.
    Last edited by Locomotive; 10-07-2013 at 03:54.

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    PC gaming is also changing in terms of APIs, Mantle is clear indicator that developers want more programmability and ability to use those GPUs in a way current APIs never can offer.
    We should see first implications on classic performance difference what two different kinds of APIs can have in December.

    Of course consoles still have the advantage for coders in terms of targeting code for single machine, which we know is not a small thing.

    Just noticed a nice price cut on AMD hardware on PC side, for ~1500$ one can buy ~<19Gflops of computing power.
    'no, no one in their sane mind uses OpenGL on PS3' - Repi
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