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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    That's because the games on the PC continue looking better in an iterative process, the consoles don't. It's not the same scenario. Of course a PC from 2005 wouldn't (at least not beyond low settings and 30fps) run those, but that's also because those games look and play much, much better on the PC than the consoles. Not to mention graphics card have come a long, long way since 2005.
    I admit that I exaggerated big time with the "3 GPU's and a new rig" comment earlier but there is some truth in the comment which is what I'm trying to point out with the 2005 PC reply to you. Your PC is 2 years old. It seems great now but I wouldn't have confidence that it would run games in say....2020. I say this because the typical comment from a PC gamer is a denial that PC gaming is expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I admit that I exaggerated big time with the "3 GPU's and a new rig" comment earlier but there is some truth in the comment which is what I'm getting at with the 2005 PC comment. Your PC was from 2 years ago. It seems great now but I wouldn't have confidence that it would run games in say....2020. I say this because the typical comment from a PC gamer is a denial that PC gaming is expensive.
    The hardware is more expensive (though between all the sales it's already made up for it) but that's because the hardware is better and allows for more versatile usage. I know my PC won't be a top gaming device in 2020. But it will hold solid for several years; the next-generation consoles will be set hardware just the same. Both my PC and the consoles will find themselves stagnating as things on the PC end continue developing further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I admit that I exaggerated big time with the "3 GPU's and a new rig" comment earlier but there is some truth in the comment which is what I'm trying to point out with the 2005 PC reply to you. Your PC is 2 years old. It seems great now but I wouldn't have confidence that it would run games in say....2020. I say this because the typical comment from a PC gamer is a denial that PC gaming is expensive.
    Try playing BF3 on windows XP with a direct X 9 card from 2005.

    Impossible since the devs only support DX 11.
    Last edited by keefy; 08-30-2013 at 00:24.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    It's not though. What you're referring to is a different subject from what the article is designed to discuss. I'm not saying what you've said is necessarily wrong, only that the article is geared towards a specific topic, which is only what visual settings the PS4 will be comparable to. Again, this isn't a benchmark. If it were and no specs had been posted, then of course it would have been a lapse of judgement on the article's part.

    So I repeat, what specs did you want posted? Where is this computer that everyone is looking for?
    It's not a benchmark in the strictest of the term. We aren't getting numerical values and ratings outputted at the end of this telling us the limits of the hardware when put under stress testing. But you can get a rough idea what what you are dealing with if you put some imagination into the comparison they give in the article.

    Examples:
    Same game run on 3 identical systems with only the gpu being different quality, keeping it simple...
    Low end card - medium settings - 30fps
    Mid range card - medium settings - 60fps
    High end card - medium settings - 100fps

    These days cards are priced anywhere from $50 to $1000, there are even 6gb gddr5 cards out there for $4500. So lets say mid range cards are $500. Well according to that article, the ps4 (a $400 console) is running the equivalent to a PC with a $500 card in slot.

    I'm not, nor will I ever state that a console will compete with a PC on the forefront of technology/gaming. But I am an advocate for cost effective comparisons. Obviously the console will show its age and continue to do so until the next console generation...and even then it will be behind the pc tech in terms of sheer power potential. But it's cost/power potential that is key, and noone wants to consider that. Having a $400 console with the graphical power of a $500 card, when obviously that pc will need many more components still before it can play the same game is a good deal for the person attempting to make a smart monetary choice.

    So yes I'm interested in knowing the specs of the pc compared to, because if he's running some sick tech in his pc...I'm thrilled my future console in being compared to it. And its doing it at a price point a pc can't compete with, as proven when you can buy an entire console for the price of a single pc component. Of course optimization will skew perception on this as its not an actual benchmark, I'm basically eye-ballin it for lack of a better term...but I can't imagine I'm too far off.

    Granted thats hypothetical pricing, and there are many cards that have varying prices in those "low-med-high" ranges...but I hope you get what I'm saying.
    Last edited by shepard; 08-30-2013 at 13:35.

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    Again, all I can say is duh. Of course it is not going to look as good as a high end PC game. I will say this though: I think PS4 games released 4 years from now will look better than PC's using the graphics cards they have today. One thing I always hated when I gamed on my PC was buying a new card every couple of years to constantly play games on max settings. It's better just to get a streamlined experience with a console. Better on the wallet and with troubleshooting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    ...I say this because the typical comment from a PC gamer is a denial that PC gaming is expensive.
    PC gamers who make that claim are being ridiculous. PC gaming is expensive.
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    PC gaming is actually very cheap, and this is especially so when compared to consoles. All PC gamers know this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    PC gaming is actually very cheap, and this is especially so when compared to consoles. All PC gamers know this.

    Gonna have to disagree with you there. Former PC gamer here. Is it possible to build a cheap rig? Of course. Is it possible to build a cheap rig that will outperform console games in every way for years to come? Nope. You have to buy an insanely priced video card upon your initial build or replace your card throughout the years with various newer and less expensive cards in order to stay ahead of the console visuals department. The investment turns out to be much more expensive than that of someone who just buys a console and plays on it until the end of the consoles lifespan.

    The key difference between games for rigs and consoles? Optimization. Devs are straight up lazy when it comes to PC's and development. They know they have a new graphics card releasing every year or so, so they don't optimize for $#@! when it comes to games. They know they have raw power at their disposal and honestly don't have to work for top visuals.


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  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicron7 View Post
    Again, all I can say is duh. Of course it is not going to look as good as a high end PC game. I will say this though: I think PS4 games released 4 years from now will look better than PC's using the graphics cards they have today. One thing I always hated when I gamed on my PC was buying a new card every couple of years to constantly play games on max settings. It's better just to get a streamlined experience with a console. Better on the wallet and with troubleshooting.
    As a former PC gamer I agree with this. PC gaming is highly overrated imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unicron7 View Post
    Gonna have to disagree with you there. Former PC gamer here. Is it possible to build a cheap rig? Of course. Is it possible to build a cheap rig that will outperform console games in every way for years to come? Nope. You have to buy an insanely priced video card upon your initial build or replace your card throughout the years with various newer and less expensive cards in order to stay ahead of the console visuals department. The investment turns out to be much more expensive than that of someone who just buys a console and plays on it until the end of the consoles lifespan.

    The key difference between games for rigs and consoles? Optimization. Devs are straight up lazy when it comes to PC's and development. They know they have a new graphics card releasing every year or so, so they don't optimize for $#@! when it comes to games. They know they have raw power at their disposal and honestly don't have to work for top visuals.
    Lol lazy is a bit to harsh, it's more they can only go so far because theres an impossible amount of hardware combinations. What they have to do is more work making assests that can scale to the hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unicron7 View Post
    Gonna have to disagree with you there. Former PC gamer here. Is it possible to build a cheap rig? Of course. Is it possible to build a cheap rig that will outperform console games in every way for years to come? Nope. You have to buy an insanely priced video card upon your initial build or replace your card throughout the years with various newer and less expensive cards in order to stay ahead of the console visuals department. The investment turns out to be much more expensive than that of someone who just buys a console and plays on it until the end of the consoles lifespan.

    The key difference between games for rigs and consoles? Optimization. Devs are straight up lazy when it comes to PC's and development. They know they have a new graphics card releasing every year or so, so they don't optimize for $#@! when it comes to games. They know they have raw power at their disposal and honestly don't have to work for top visuals.
    A Graphics card bought now will still out perform a the stuff found in a PS4 or Xbone even in 100000000 years time it will still be more powerful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    I admit that I exaggerated big time with the "3 GPU's and a new rig" comment earlier but there is some truth in the comment which is what I'm trying to point out with the 2005 PC reply to you. Your PC is 2 years old. It seems great now but I wouldn't have confidence that it would run games in say....2020. I say this because the typical comment from a PC gamer is a denial that PC gaming is expensive.
    Define expensive.

    A solid video card at any time will cost between $250 and $300. Sure there are high end cards that are more expensive, but at any given time a $250-$300 video card will play everything that is out or is coming out at the highest settings at more than just playable frame rates. A $250-$300 card will last about 5 years in PC gaming right now.


    Now, on average console games are $10-$20 more expensive than PC games. PC games typically release for $40-$50, vs the normal $60 or more for console games. At just a $10 price difference for the games all you have to do is buy 25 games over 5 years and you've saved enough money to pay for that new video card. Once you get into the 30+ video game count the console costs more, even with upgrading the video card in the PC included.

    10 years down the line and 50+ video games later that PC will still play latest release games with high end graphics, and that console will look like a PC on the lowest graphics settings and will have cost more over the life of the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Try playing BF3 on windows XP with a direct X 9 card from 2005.

    Impossible since the devs only support DX 11.
    Try playing DayZ on your PS3.

    It's impossible since the devs only support the PS4.



    I can buy a $150 video card that will play BF3. You have to buy a $400 console to play DayZ.


    Funny how console gamers never compare the price of having to upgrade their entire console to the price of a PC video card upgrade, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post

    These days cards are priced anywhere from $50 to $1000, there are even 6gb gddr5 cards out there for $4500. So lets say mid range cards are $500.
    Why would you say that?


    Oh, because you're a console gamer who doesn't know what he is talking about.


    A low end PC card can be had for as little as $100. A mid-range PC card is $200-$300.

    This is a good example of a mid-range PC card.



    Anything over $400 is an ultra high end card. PERIOD. For the consumer level ATI only makes ONE video card that costs over $400 and Nvidia only makes TWO video card that costs over $400.

    HOW COULD ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SUGGEST THAT ONE OF ONLY THREE VIDEO CARDS THAT COST OVER $400 IS MID-RANGE?



    And that $4500 card is a PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPERS CARD. It has NOTHING to do with home PC use, it's for a graphic developers workstation.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 09-02-2013 at 21:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    PC gaming is actually very cheap, and this is especially so when compared to consoles. All PC gamers know this.
    Current PC gamer...It isn't cheap if your aim is to experience the best visual quality you can get with a gaming system. PC gaming is expensive, but for lots of people, like myself, it's worthwhile.
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    PCs are expensive, but PC gaming is cheap. Steam sales reduce your video game budget to practically zilch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Try playing DayZ on your PS3.

    It's impossible since the devs only support the PS4.



    I can buy a $150 video card that will play BF3. You have to buy a $400 console to play DayZ.


    Funny how console gamers never compare the price of having to upgrade their entire console to the price of a PC video card upgrade, isn't it?
    My Ps3 broke about 18 months ago, I have been mostly a PC gamer since 2005ish which is when my PS2 broke.
    If something breaks on a PC 2 years after I bought it I can buy the same replacement for a cheaper or choose to upgrade that component for more performance usually its the latter, is it not.

    The point I was making in my post (and you too I think) was Eventually the devs stop supporting the hardware so nothing the gamers can do. Same as a dev only releasing ta game on the new console instead of the older console.
    Its called progress.
    Last edited by keefy; 09-02-2013 at 21:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    PCs are expensive, but PC gaming is cheap. Steam sales reduce your video game budget to practically zilch.
    Oh god. To enjoy all those inexpensively purchased games with all their visual fidelity unlocked you still have a considerable up front cost. Taken as a whole, high end PC gaming is expensive. It just costs more, overall. There's just no getting around it. I think it's silly for PC gamers to argue this point.
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  21. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sneezymarble View Post
    Oh god. To enjoy all those inexpensively purchased games with all their visual fidelity unlocked you still have a considerable up front cost. Taken as a whole, high end PC gaming is expensive. It just costs more, overall. There's just no getting around it. I think it's silly for PC gamers to argue this point.
    What you think is silly doesn't matter. You are wrong. I won't bother arguing stated facts. PC gaming is much much cheaper than console gaming as a whole, thanks to Steam. It's an inalienable fact.

  22. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Why would you say that?
    Oh, because you're a console gamer who doesn't know what he is talking about.
    A low end PC card can be had for as little as $100. A mid-range PC card is $200-$300.

    This is a good example of a mid-range PC card.

    Anything over $400 is an ultra high end card. PERIOD. For the consumer level ATI only makes ONE video card that costs over $400 and Nvidia only makes TWO video card that costs over $400.

    HOW COULD ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SUGGEST THAT ONE OF ONLY THREE VIDEO CARDS THAT COST OVER $400 IS MID-RANGE?
    This is your opinion, and it's skewed based on where you live. I don't live in the US. That "good example" of yours is maybe $220 on amazon.com, but on amazon.ca its between $305-$325 as it's listed twice. I have sources that'll get it for me cheaper. But as you can see, not everyone gets their PC components at US pricing. Canada is just one example, I'm sure there are other countries that have it worse.

    And that is just the price of the vid card, ALL pc component pricing over here are higher than the US. So before you think I don't know what I'm talking about, or before you assume I only console game...maybe you should consider that fact. And In addition, that 2gb card is already showing its age. If you are going to compare an aged 2gb of gddr5 ram to the ps4's 8gb of gddr5 ram (4-5gb really, depending on how true the rumors of memory reserves are) than you have no idea how to compare products. 3-4gb cards in my area depending on quality will range from $300-$800. And buying cheaper/weaker cards just enforces the need to upgrade sooner when games like crysis push limits that people want to be able to experience.

    I game on playstation and PC. I'd venture a guess I'd be spending roughly $1200-$1500 on a PC build to compete with next gen consoles and still give me longevity past them for a few years. Thats assuming nothing burns out and needs replacing.

    And that $4500 card is a PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPERS CARD. It has NOTHING to do with home PC use, it's for a graphic developers workstation.
    I quoted that price to illustrate the fact its available, and hardcore idiots with more money than sense will buy it solely to brag about their specs. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it wasn't long after the release of the Titan that people we're buying duals of them and putting them in their rigs.
    Last edited by shepard; 09-03-2013 at 01:56.

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    Yeah Well PC gaming is backwards compatible. Anyone with a PC can play a game from today or 20 years ago.
    so Ner!

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    Quote Originally Posted by billm0066 View Post
    I find it strange how people care about comparing consoles to pc every generation. Especially when it comes to multiplat and multi gen games. They are not going to take the time to truly optimize bf4 for ps4 so it wont reach it's full potential. You cant blame them, because at the end of the day they need to make a profit. If they spend a bunch of extra time on the ps4 version, it's doubtful they will recoup their money. There are only a million pre orders and what % of them will buy this game? I know I wont.

    Let the pc guys enjoy having a more powerful system. It costs a lot more, they miss out on a lot of great exclusives, and they typically play on small monitors with headphones.
    PC insecurity.
    like I just got that GPU dogg, Damn consoles with generation shifts. I can run those games in 4k@120fps on my 24inch man.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Funny how console gamers never compare the price of having to upgrade their entire console to the price of a PC video card upgrade, isn't it?
    Then you shouldn't ignore the CPU. Fiddlesticks, my processor is bottle necking my system so that new $250 video card I bought isn't doing much for me. Guess I'll need to get a new CPU. Oh hang on, I have to buy a new motherboard too because of the new sockets. It adds up.


    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Yeah Well PC gaming is backwards compatible. Anyone with a PC can play a game from today or 20 years ago.
    so Ner!
    I have games from 10-12 years ago that won't play on Windows 7.

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    Thing is. Eventually I think both consoles and PCs will dissolve into similar products. Consoles need a bit of PC stuff, PCs need a little console stuff. In the end, consoles are going to reign victorious because the concept works much better.

    It's only a matter of time before consoles start getting insane amount of RAM just for non-gaming tasks and it will do most of the stuff people do on PCs (and already doing what gamers want to do). At the same time, I think we're going to start seeing more and more PCs that are standardized, made for gaming.

    Making 64-bit OS is the first step into this direction. It would be smart for companies like Alienware to start making rigs that are officially supported by video card makers and developers. They have to come together and say that they should focus on certain brands and so your games would work perfect on those rigs. I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet.

    This way they don't have to put insane tech inside and charge $1000 - $3000 for their rigs. They can put tech inside that is supported better by developers and video card makers and they can find some sort of a good balance. So it doesn't matter if people want to do more with their gaming PCs but they are designed for games (not just putting in expensive $#@! and calling it a day). If they can come up with something together to make PCs that are about the same in cost if you build it yourself and it's better supported...then you have a no-brainer there.

    Realistically though, this would work better with people that want a budget gaming rig, not high-end.

    If anyone thinks I'm bullshitting, look up steam, they're coming out with a rig so they probably know what will work best for what sort of games or they should be doing that anyway.

    Anyway, both platforms will become more similar moving forward but their core competencies won't change. Consoles will always be more dedicated as they will always be closed-box...if they're upgradeable, might as well call them PCs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    Then you shouldn't ignore the CPU. Fiddlesticks, my processor is bottle necking my system so that new $250 video card I bought isn't doing much for me. Guess I'll need to get a new CPU. Oh hang on, I have to buy a new motherboard too because of the new sockets. It adds up.



    I have games from 10-12 years ago that won't play on Windows 7.
    Right click the exe properties>>compatability>> windows XP usually works.

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    PC can be more or less expensive overall; it totally depends on the hardware, when you buy it, amount of games bought, and how expensive those games are. For me, PC gaming has been indisputably cheaper.



    Now for my computer:


    Huh, seems I was wrong. PC gaming has objectively cost me 230$ more. Alright, I'll admit that.

    But this is a difference concerning vastly more powerful hardware, a better gaming experience (mods, higher framerate and better graphics), a multitude of more games to play for a far cheaper purchasing price as well as things like emulators and available free indie titles, as well as a system that can perform any other task besides gaming with complete ease. Certainly one has to question where the real value lies here, no? And this is completely ignoring all my finances of the Xbox 360 and its games, which would have put the console side closer to 2,500-3,000$.

    In the end it looks like the PC is the clear victor here, for me anyway. There's a lot of variables at play, but my intent is to break down the myth that PC gaming is inherently or vastly more expensive. It's not, as I've demonstrated here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    Then you shouldn't ignore the CPU. Fiddlesticks, my processor is bottle necking my system so that new $250 video card I bought isn't doing much for me. Guess I'll need to get a new CPU. Oh hang on, I have to buy a new motherboard too because of the new sockets. It adds up.
    Who does that? If your CPU is bottlenecking your new GPU then your PC as a whole is either too old or you didn't get a good enough CPU from the start. The fault sits on the builder here. Everyone knows a long-lasting CPU is the key component of a gaming rig.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 09-03-2013 at 12:39.

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