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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    What? No. That doesn't even make sense. Not on consoles. Fijiandoce basically has it right, if you are running at a solid 30fps (locked) with v-sync engaged, then it is safe to assume there is headroom to up the frame rate if so desired. Hence if they're running at a rock solid locked 30fps, it's safe to assume unlocked it would be in the high 40's or 50's, but with drops. They are trying to achieve a solid 60 refresh.
    That is not true at all.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    No. V-sync doesn't have any such meaning to that. You can have a game run at 20fps and be V-synced for 30fps.
    tell me, where did you get 20 from? i specifically stated 30, ergo 30 is what im theoretically running at.

    And whilst i don't have the understanding of mynd, i do know that V-sync holds frames in buffers that refresh after the screen refreshes. again, you can only hold those frames if they are finished...hence @30fps one could conclude there is a few more FPS if V-sync is removed.

    i'd really like to know where you got 20 from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    That is not true at all.
    please elaborate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    tell me, where did you get 20 from? i specifically stated 30, ergo 30 is what im theoretically running at.

    And whilst i don't have the understanding of mynd, i do know that V-sync holds frames in buffers that refresh after the screen refreshes. again, you can only hold those frames if they are finished...hence @30fps one could conclude there is a few more FPS if V-sync is removed.

    i'd really like to know where you got 20 from?


    please elaborate?


    If the system is unable to keep constant 30FPS due to a heavy explosion and lots of on screen action causing the frame to rate dip below 30FPS to lets say 27FPS then the vsync will kick in at 20FPS to reduce the tearing.

    This is why Vsync is loathed by some (me included) it can reduce the frame rate even more than is necessary and one reason I never use it on my PC.
    Last edited by keefy; 09-12-2013 at 01:38.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    If the system is unable to keep constant 30FPS due to a heavy explosion and the frame rate dips below 30FPS to 27FPS then the sync will kick in at 20FPS to reduce the tearing.

    This is why Vsync is loathed by some (me included) it can reduce the frame rate even more than is necessary and one reason I never use it on my PC.
    yeah, i understand that. i force triple buffering for a few games. which i why i specifically mentioned running at 30; like the two killzone games did (Killzone 2 at least, don't have a clue what Killzone 3 runs at )
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    tell me, where did you get 20 from? i specifically stated 30, ergo 30 is what im theoretically running at.

    And whilst i don't have the understanding of mynd, i do know that V-sync holds frames in buffers that refresh after the screen refreshes. again, you can only hold those frames if they are finished...hence @30fps one could conclude there is a few more FPS if V-sync is removed.

    i'd really like to know where you got 20 from?


    please elaborate?
    Naturally, the fps your V-sync is set to target simply results in dictating the maximum and not the minimum fps by nature. Nothing else.

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    Last edited by Itachi; 09-12-2013 at 04:23.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Naturally, the fps your V-sync is set to target simply results in dictating the maximum and not the minimum fps by nature. Nothing else.
    Sorry Foraeli but i've got to side with the others on this.
    Pretty sure V-sync is used to reduce the amount of frames you see in order to prevent screen tearing in games (screen tearing being when two or more frames collide on the one screen) so to prevent that from happening the frames must be slowed down. (or brought in sync)
    Last edited by Itachi; 09-12-2013 at 04:23.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Naturally, the fps your V-sync is set to target simply results in dictating the maximum and not the minimum fps by nature. Nothing else. :facepalm.
    its like you aren't even paying attention to what is being discussed and simply wish to show everyone how much you know...despite myself stating pretty much the same thing.

    you'll notice i specifically noted 'finished frames' above. if the frame is not finished you end up with stalls and a lower framerate as the engine cannot draw frames quick enough to meet the refresh rate. hence why i (again) specifically noted running @30fps in my original post.

    so let me take you up on a point you yourself just raised. you're quoted as pointing out "maximum", prey tell what happens when the engine is capable of putting out more frames?

    i'll answer that one, the frames are drawn at the refresh rate locked to 30hz; so one buffer draws the frame, while the other is delivering its finished frame (the frames are synced).

    you answer this one, what happens in that same scenario when v-sync is disabled?
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 09-12-2013 at 02:31.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Sorry Foraeli but i've got to side with the others on this.
    Pretty sure V-sync is used to reduce the amount of frames you see in order to prevent screen tearing in games (screen tearing being when two or more frames collide on the one screen) so to prevent that from happening the frames must be slowed down. (or brought in sync)
    This is not true at all either. It's not about reducing but simply trying to match the framerate to a set number. Reducing frames doesn't reduce tearing. All V-sync does is regulate when the frames are transmit in-sync with the monitor refresh. It's very much like how current battery-powered 3D glasses for home 3DTVs work to synchronize the glasses with the TV refreshing intervals.

    The only time V-sync reduces framerate is if it exceeds the frame rate the v-sync has been set to target, and v-sync only reduces it so that the number of pictures generated matches evenly with the refresh rate of the TV and so it can show just one picture per TV refresh. A 60Hz TV can have V-sync set at 60fps, 30fps, 15fps, etc. Anything that divides evenly into the TV refresh rate. Hell, a 480Hz TV can have v-sync set at a whopping 240fps and 120fps if you wish to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    its like you aren't even paying attention to what is being discussed and simply wish to show everyone how much you know...despite myself stating pretty much the same thing.
    If I misread and ended up stating the same thing you did, then why didn't you mention it earlier?

    And why did you pretend that a game v-synced for 30fps cannot run at 20fps with the v-sync enabled?
    Last edited by Foraeli; 09-12-2013 at 02:48.

  9. #34
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    I wonder if the game is in 3D.

    If they can get KZSF looking this good with 3D... INCREDIBLE. Might be the first VR ready game on the market?
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 09-12-2013 at 02:55.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    If I misread and ended up stating the same thing you did, then why didn't you mention it earlier?

    And why did you pretend that a game v-synced for 30fps cannot run at 20fps with the v-sync enabled?
    Foraeli, why aren't you paying attention to your own posts? i shouldn't need to do that for you.

    i never "pretended" anything, you simply ran on presumption. i was never talking about a "game" i merely used a locked 30FPS as a basis for thought; to which i tangentially linked to previous killzones (as was relevant to the thread).

    where you got 20 FPS from is anybodies guess...
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    Foraeli, why aren't you paying attention to your own posts? i shouldn't need to do that for you.

    i never "pretended" anything, you simply ran on presumption. i was never talking about a "game" i merely used a locked 30FPS as a basis for thought; to which i tangentially linked to previous killzones (as was relevant to the thread).

    where you got 20 FPS from is anybodies guess...

    So how is saying that a v-synced game could potentially only run at 20 instead of it being a game that could be capable of running at 40 or 50 fps out of nowhere? I obviously misread a little, but please go on.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post

    So how is saying that a v-synced game could potentially only run at 20 instead of it being a game that could be capable of running at 40 or 50 fps out of nowhere? I obviously misread a little, but please go on.
    what part of a v-synced 30fps are you not getting? o_O

    the implication of my setting 30fps as the v-synced minimum and then linking to the series was to ponder what FPS the engine can put out without v-sync. again, if you read my post it was ended with my stating that i was musing at the notion.

    logically, why are you pretending to run v-sync at 20 fps to begin with? just leave it unlocked and let the frames tear. as i said above, there is a stall from holding frames, this lowers FPS further, if you are below 30 why would you lower it further? the argument is counter to the threads intentions. or were you simply in here to try and correct me for some reason? you should understand by now i have some idea of what im talking about....

    killzone 2 was locked at 30 at pretty much every instance. i can apply my thought to killzone and wonder what the 'actual' framerate is. i can apply that same thought to uncharted, which is v-synced too if im not mistaken.
    they could run at 33FPS or they could run at 45FPS. we don't know because the framerate is locked. hence my wondering.

    as i said, you've presumed something and run with it. and i don't know why...its counter to the thread and had very flimsy base to start a discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    what part of a v-synced 30fps are you not getting? o_O
    Never mind part where I clearly said I misread. sigh.

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    Dammit Foraeli, learn to control smilie usage. Never seen so many facepalms before and I had to edit your post as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    That is not true at all.
    I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    This is why Vsync is loathed by some (me included) it can reduce the frame rate even more than is necessary and one reason I never use it on my PC.
    I find most games to have bad v-sync implementation but if you use it and triple buffering via D3DOverrider, or through the GPU control panel, it's much less prone to drops

  17. #41
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    Tbh i never really understood why it's always either 30fps or 60fps on consoles.
    Why not let the console run the game "as fast as it can".

    I don't think it's a problem if a game, for example drops from 50fps to 40 if there's a lot going on etc.

    On pc im usually running the games with vsync and locked 60fps.
    But that's only because i've got enough power right now.
    Once i experience problems running a game on 60 frames in the future i'll just deactivate vsync and hope for a solid framerate >30.
    Last edited by Beast of Bourbon; 09-12-2013 at 11:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    what part of a v-synced 30fps are you not getting? o_O

    the implication of my setting 30fps as the v-synced minimum and then linking to the series was to ponder what FPS the engine can put out without v-sync. again, if you read my post it was ended with my stating that i was musing at the notion.

    logically, why are you pretending to run v-sync at 20 fps to begin with? just leave it unlocked and let the frames tear. as i said above, there is a stall from holding frames, this lowers FPS further, if you are below 30 why would you lower it further? the argument is counter to the threads intentions. or were you simply in here to try and correct me for some reason? you should understand by now i have some idea of what im talking about....

    killzone 2 was locked at 30 at pretty much every instance. i can apply my thought to killzone and wonder what the 'actual' framerate is. i can apply that same thought to uncharted, which is v-synced too if im not mistaken.
    they could run at 33FPS or they could run at 45FPS. we don't know because the framerate is locked. hence my wondering.

    as i said, you've presumed something and run with it. and i don't know why...its counter to the thread and had very flimsy base to start a discussion.

    You two have got crossed purposes. I have no idea why you are arguing so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.


    I find most games to have bad v-sync implementation but if you use it and triple buffering via D3DOverrider, or through the GPU control panel, it's much less prone to drops
    Its bad because it is bad, it creates a phenomenon known as input lag which is easier to detect when using a mouse. Its a weird sensation, You feel your arm moving but on the screen it doesn't marry up exactly. But ina console its just your thumb so less noticeable to some.
    Killzone 2 had it really bad.
    Last edited by keefy; 09-12-2013 at 12:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    You two have got crossed purposes. I have no idea why you are arguing so much.




    Its bad because it is bad, it creates a phenomenon known as input lag which is easier to detect when using a mouse. Its a weird sensation, You feel your arm moving but on the screen it doesn't marry up exactly. But ina console its just your thumb so less noticeable to some.
    Killzone 2 had it really bad.

    Killzone 2 at 30fps input lag was the worst i've ever experienced in a 30fps game, Was tightened up in 3 and if they get it at 60fps for this one it should be perfect control wise.
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  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by UkHardcore View Post
    Killzone 2 at 30fps input lag was the worst i've ever experienced in a 30fps game, Was tightened up in 3 and if they get it at 60fps for this one it should be perfect control wise.
    Oh boy....I hope you're not one of those that took the weighty feel as input lag? Kz3 was more call of duty than anything, why do you think people prefer kz2

    Kz SF mp is already at 1080p@60fps so rejoice

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  21. #45
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    Tbh is didn't like that "weighty feel" of KZ2 either... but im sure SF will handle smooooothly
    Last edited by Beast of Bourbon; 09-12-2013 at 16:08.

  22. #46
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    I want the weight of killzone 2 back.

    Killzone 3 felt like a step backwards. Pandering to COD noobs. Killzone 2 was better received for it also.
    Last edited by RedOrb_Collector; 09-12-2013 at 16:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Oh boy....I hope you're not one of those that took the weighty feel as input lag? Kz3 was more call of duty than anything, why do you think people prefer kz2

    Kz SF mp is already at 1080p@60fps so rejoice

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    It was applied to every single button in the game not just the analogue sticks. If I tapped square to reload too fast nothing would happen I had to make it more a prolonged action than a quick tap.
    Also it was super hard to make fine adjustments in aim due in part to the acceleration curve.
    If GG purposely applied the "weighty feel" to the entire game then why can we stop mid air when we run and jump? The momentum suddenly vanishes in that situation.

    Weighty feel my arse.
    Last edited by keefy; 09-12-2013 at 17:23.

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    I did some research on vsync and yeah fiji and Cyn are correct. If KZ is running 30 capped with Vsync than it needs to have frames in the back buffer to do it (i.e will run higher fps when unlocked)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.
    That irony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrb_Collector View Post
    I want the weight of killzone 2 back.

    Killzone 3 felt like a step backwards. Pandering to COD noobs. Killzone 2 was better received for it also.
    ^this
    WOOF! WOOF!

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