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  1. #51
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    I'd prefer a company that didnt even TRY to screw me over with DRM policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    I'd prefer a company that didnt even TRY to screw me over with DRM policies.
    Well what do you know..... that crazy logic I was talking about. Right on cue!

  3. #53
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    I'm so confused. So a company that replaces broken/defective products and replaces them with a new working product... that's a bad thing now?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Well what do you know..... that crazy logic I was talking about. Right on cue!
    No more crazy logic than preferring a company that did try to screw you over one that didnt.

    Mod Note: Edited.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 09-15-2013 at 21:02.

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    You know what is really crazy.

    Showing loyalty to something just after your money. That is crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    I'm so confused. So a company that replaces broken/defective products and replaces them with a new working product... that's a bad thing now?
    You say that as if that is what Microsoft's default response to a situation like that is. That wasn't the case. They were pretty much forced to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    You know what is really crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post

    Showing loyalty to something just after your money. That is crazy.


    Or maybe that is how YOU are choosing to look at it. Some people may seem to favor a company but that won't take long to change when that company does something that they don't agree with. It's not always a black and white situation.

  8. #57
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    I don't care what their default response was to the situation. I care about what they actually did about the situation. And what they did was repair the broken consoles and give people an extended 3 year warranty. I must be missing something because I don't really see how that is a negative. Yes. In an ideal situation the 360 wouldn't have broke. But they did and MS move, weather or not it was forced by some other action, was good for the consumer. I couldn't care less if they were forced. What matters is how they overcame the problem.

    People are acting as if they'd prefer if MS just turned around and said "$#@! you, buddy. You're the chump for buying our console".

    Yes. That is exactly how I choose to look at it. I'm posting on a forum. I thought it would've been blatant it was my opinion i was posting. If you have blind loyalty for any product. Not just limited to consoles. Then I think you are crazy. People talk about Sony and MS as if they are doing things for us. If you for one second think that either of them care about us, the consumer. Then I don't know what to say.

    As it has been pointed out. Lets say MS didn't get backlash for the DRM. Do you really think Sony wouldn't have followed suit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    As for the DRM 180? I find it funny how SOME Sony fans say Sony didn't implement DRM out of the goodness of their heart.
    Who's saying that? That's just smart not to do. If they had done it, I would just not support them. Simple.
    The TRUTH is...they would have done it if they could have gotten away with it.
    that's the idea. you need a balance. if you let them get away with it, they will. sort of goes back to the RROD, you're "ok" with it as long as they fix it. you're letting them get away with it. sure, let them get away with it if it happened once but why would you welcome it moving forward?

    Rootkit DRM PROVED they were willing to do such things and their filed DRM patents PROVE they definitely wanted to keep the option on the table. If not for the PS4...maybe the PS5 or PS6....who knows.

    That's why I find it disingenuous when people say they won't buy an Xbox One...despite their 180 on DRM..... because MS was TRYING to screw their customers with DRM...... but are FULLY willing to overlook the fact Sony actually went through with implementing DRM with Rooykit for 2 full years.
    Yea, the future is unclear right now. I know Sony would do DRM if they could. But they played it smart this generation. That's all there is to it. That builds confidence. We will see with PS5 and 6 but this time around, they are doing it right.

    You can't say the same about MS. They kept at it for the "upcoming" generation and only changed it once they saw a huge surge of complaints and how unpopular the X1 was up until they did reverse their policies.

    It would be smart for them not to go down that route but no one in this thread can say that they certainly won't try that again. Sony might as well moving forward but generally people look at recent things rather than something that happened years ago. Not to mention, those rootkits aren't even about consoles, that's a huge difference.

    I don't know where these people's crazy logic stems from..... but common logic says that you should be MORE pissed at a company that has actually SCREWED their consumers over with DRM.... then you should be at a company that merely ATTEMPTED to screw it's consumers over with DRM.
    Console consumers? You're missing the point. We're gamers here, not music listeners. Are we talking about buying the next Sony music player? No...because if we were, then your comparison/analogy would be relevant. I have never bought a Sony music player in my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    I'm so confused. So a company that replaces broken/defective products and replaces them with a new working product... that's a bad thing now?
    No, that was actually great, I wish Sony had done that as well. The issue is that GSK is not worried if it will happen again or not, because MS will pay for it, supposedly.

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    You know what is really crazy. Showing loyalty to something just after your money. That is crazy.
    Of course it is. Which is why I"m not buying an Xbox this time around. If the two companies circumstances were the other way around I'd be getting an X1 and not a PS4. Now if Sony screws up and say the PS4 has massive problems and the X1 doesn't I would have no problem switching despite Sony's (IMO) better exclusives. (except Forza 5 which will be brilliant). Because I just dont want to deal with unstable hardware. Thats why being tethered to a brand ride or die is not a good thing.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 09-15-2013 at 20:16.

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    I don't give a $#@! WHY companies do good things for their customers, as long as it gets done. And you are right.... companies don't do things out of love for their customers. They do it if it's good business. And avoiding lawsuits is good business.


    As for the DRM 180? I find it funny how SOME Sony fans say Sony didn't implement DRM out of the goodness of their heart. That they did it cuz they CARE for their customers. The TRUTH is...they would have done it if they could have gotten away with it. Rootkit DRM PROVED they were willing to do such things and their filed DRM patents PROVE they definitely wanted to keep the option on the table. If not for the PS4...maybe the PS5 or PS6....who knows.

    That's why I find it disingenuous when people say they won't buy an Xbox One...despite their 180 on DRM..... because MS was TRYING to screw their customers with DRM...... but are FULLY willing to overlook the fact Sony actually went through with implementing DRM with Rooykit for 2 full years.

    I don't know where these people's crazy logic stems from..... but common logic says that you should be MORE pissed at a company that has actually SCREWED their consumers over with DRM.... then you should be at a company that merely ATTEMPTED to screw it's consumers over with DRM.

    That's either long term memory loss...... blue tinted glasses.... or BOTH. Cuz they come off as complete hypocrites.


    And....as for those that paid for their RROD fix? If memory serves me right, MS offered to reimburse retroactively those that had sent their RROD consoles in to MS for a paid repair.
    Great post again Koaster.




  12. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    You say that as if that is what Microsoft's default response to a situation like that is. That wasn't the case. They were pretty much forced to do that. Or maybe that is how YOU are choosing to look at it. Some people may seem to favor a company but that won't take long to change when that company does something that they don't agree with. It's not always a black and white situation.
    +rep As somebody who once was a huge supporter of the Xbox I can attest to this. And if Sony screws up I will hold them to the same standard.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 09-15-2013 at 20:28.

  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    +rep As somebody who once was a huge supporter of the Xbox I can attest to this. And if Sony screws up I will hold them to the same standard.
    Um, Sony has screwed up. What Koaster said was pretty spot on. Did Microsoft screw up? I think so, easily. Did they do what was needed to address the problem? I think so. Sony went through this with the PS2, Rootkit, and some bring in the launch PS3's to the equation.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Um, Sony has screwed up. What Koaster said was pretty spot on. Did Microsoft screw up? I think so, easily. Did they do what was needed to address the problem? I think so. Sony went through this with the PS2, Rootkit, and some bring in the launch PS3's to the equation.
    lol @ bringing up the rootkit scandal into a gaming topic.

    fyi what Sony's music division and playstation division do are two totally separate things.

    Moderator Note: Edited.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 09-15-2013 at 21:02.

  15. #64
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    Keep it smart and civil, guys. Attack the argument, not the poster. This is your only warning,

  16. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Um, Sony has screwed up. What Koaster said was pretty spot on. Did Microsoft screw up? I think so, easily. Did they do what was needed to address the problem? I think so. Sony went through this with the PS2, Rootkit, and some bring in the launch PS3's to the equation.
    How was it spot on? Rootkits have nothing to do with the PlayStation.

    What did they do with the PS2? Launch PS3s were bad too but they lasted people years...they did not die within a year or two. 360 slim came out almost 5 years later, PS3 slim came out almost 3 years down the road. There's a big difference there.

  17. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    How was it spot on? Rootkits have nothing to do with the PlayStation.

    What did they do with the PS2? Launch PS3s were bad too but they lasted people years...they did not die within a year or two. 360 slim came out almost 5 years later, PS3 slim came out almost 3 years down the road. There's a big difference there.
    PS2 disc read error. While rootkits don't have anything to do with the Playstation, the name Sony was brought up and as a company it's important to understand that they are willing to do things against consumers. I know there is a big difference with the launch PS3, but the problem still exists, and Sony didn't really compensate for those problems outside the original warranty.

    Anyways..




  18. #67
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    Wow, this thread.

    I dont think people give MS enough credit for being upfront, telling you exactly their plans.

    They didnt try and screw anyone with DRM, you knew it was there, before you got anywhere near the product.

    That not underhanded or anywhere near deceitful. Which seems to be what people accuse them off.

    Underhanded and deceitful is impinging on user rights, without ever telling them.
    I'd be looking at any company twice who allows this sort of practice to carry on.

    Now in saying that, it was different era and the entire board structure is vastly different at Sony than it was back then.

    But please, if MS is guilty of anything it was of informing you and gauging your reactions.

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  20. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    How was it spot on? Rootkits have nothing to do with the PlayStation.

    What did they do with the PS2? Launch PS3s were bad too but they lasted people years...they did not die within a year or two. 360 slim came out almost 5 years later, PS3 slim came out almost 3 years down the road. There's a big difference there.
    Hell, rootkit wasn't even Sony Entertainment. That was BMG. This thread is all over the place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Hell, rootkit wasn't even Sony Entertainment. That was BMG. This thread is all over the place.
    BMG is Sony BMG, they were 50/50 by Sony. Yeah, looking at the damn thread topic, I agree. How the heck did these things get into a thread about the Xbox One developer complaints? I didn't even realize what thread I was replying to.




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    yes I agree, ms does seem unprepared for the launch, but they know they cant give sony a headatart

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    Yep. Sony is starting a week earlier as it is. They better get their ducks in a row and be ready. I'd hate for the Xbox One launch to be a cluster...

    I'm literally at the point were I won't even need an Xbox One for myself. My son is getting it, so I'll have one to play some games on. Otherwise, I'd get more than one if I thought I'd benefit from having one like I have with the 360.




  24. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    PS2 disc read error. While rootkits don't have anything to do with the Playstation, the name Sony was brought up and as a company it's important to understand that they are willing to do things against consumers. I know there is a big difference with the launch PS3, but the problem still exists, and Sony didn't really compensate for those problems outside the original warranty.

    Anyways..
    yea i thought about the read errors after i replied.

    i never said Sony wouldn't be willing to do that. Sony had online passes so I know. But my point was that if Sony was going to do that, they were going to suffer the consequences. I wouldn't support them in that case and I have yet to buy a game with an online pass...other than BF3.

    the problem is still there and isn't covered outside of warranty, granted, that's why i did mention that yes i would like Sony to do this as well but that's beside the point. if X1 had the same issues as the 360, you'd be willing to deal with it as long as they covered it? i don't get that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Wow, this thread.

    I dont think people give MS enough credit for being upfront, telling you exactly their plans.
    Not sure if serious telling us "exactly their plans" lol again, not sure if serious.

    EDIT: sure if you mean that compared to the rootkit fiasco, MS vaguely spoke about what they wanted to do. i agree. but not really "exactly".

    They didnt try and screw anyone with DRM, you knew it was there, before you got anywhere near the product.

    That not underhanded or anywhere near deceitful. Which seems to be what people accuse them off.

    Underhanded and deceitful is impinging on user rights, without ever telling them.
    I'd be looking at any company twice who allows this sort of practice to carry on.

    Now in saying that, it was different era and the entire board structure is vastly different at Sony than it was back then.

    But please, if MS is guilty of anything it was of informing you and gauging your reactions.
    and it has nothing to do with the PlayStation as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Hell, rootkit wasn't even Sony Entertainment. That was BMG. This thread is all over the place.
    yeap lol. i just go with the flow, did not realize what the thread was about anymore.

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  26. #73
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    I don't have a problem with MS changing positions or releasing a known defective product. I don't buy inferior goods. I don't put up with $#@! that breaks down or is undependable. I drive a BMW because they build beautiful, high performance, dependable autos. I play on PS because Sony builds great quality gaming machines and give me the widest array of gaming possible. I use a MAC because it isn't buggy and doesn't crash and is fast and dependable. I'm not going to say its ever bad for a company to reverse position or to give a warranty after they've made a mistake....but I'm not going to buy a console that I know is a $#@!ty build and get stuck sending it off 3, 4, 5 times like my friend and put up with that crap. Not saying Sony has never had defective products but I've had launch PS1, PS2, PS3 and had NO issues and had them all for their whole generation. I also have had a couple dvd players and bravia tvs and again had nothing but beautiful picture quality and dependability with a ton of options. I don't like MS track record and I especially don't like a cluttered Entertainment Center so I will buy a PS4. Not only is it a superior gaming machine in every way to the x1 from PS+ to performance to superior software that I can't find anywhere else....all for $100 cheaper....I can buy one of those nifty psvita tv devices now and stream my gaming and netflix into my bedroom for the same price as an x1....wow...PERFORMANCE AND VALUE.....THATS A WIN for me. I do applaud MS for owning up to their mistakes...they took some big chances all in the name of market share....but this consumer doesn't see any value in their device. Had they come out with a gaming machine that was more advanced and superior to the PS3...I would have been hard pressed to not purchase it...but now...its not even an after thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    I don't care what their default response was to the situation. I care about what they actually did about the situation. And what they did was repair the broken consoles and give people an extended 3 year warranty. I must be missing something because I don't really see how that is a negative. Yes. In an ideal situation the 360 wouldn't have broke. But they did and MS move, weather or not it was forced by some other action, was good for the consumer. I couldn't care less if they were forced. What matters is how they overcame the problem.
    I didn't say otherwise. Your original post painted a different story.

    People are acting as if they'd prefer if MS just turned around and said "$#@! you, buddy. You're the chump for buying our console".
    I can't recall anyone saying that.

    Yes. That is exactly how I choose to look at it. I'm posting on a forum. I thought it would've been blatant it was my opinion i was posting. If you have blind loyalty for any product. Not just limited to consoles. Then I think you are crazy. People talk about Sony and MS as if they are doing things for us. If you for one second think that either of them care about us, the consumer. Then I don't know what to say.
    There you go again making assumptions about others.

    As it has been pointed out. Lets say MS didn't get backlash for the DRM. Do you really think Sony wouldn't have followed suit?
    With the PS4, no, they wouldn't have. It's taking Microsoft time and effort to make sure they release their console without the DRM. If Sony had plans for it, we'd have known before Microsoft.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    PS2 disc read error. While rootkits don't have anything to do with the Playstation, the name Sony was brought up and as a company it's important to understand that they are willing to do things against consumers. I know there is a big difference with the launch PS3, but the problem still exists, and Sony didn't really compensate for those problems outside the original warranty.
    DRE wasn't the same as RROD (was still an issue that Sony should have addressed.) I know some people choose to look at that the same way -- since it suits their point. If it was on the same scale, there would have been a response by Sony. Just like there was with Microsoft. Microsoft ignored the problem for as long as they could ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Wow, this thread.

    I dont think people give MS enough credit for being upfront, telling you exactly their plans.

    They didnt try and screw anyone with DRM, you knew it was there, before you got anywhere near the product.

    That not underhanded or anywhere near deceitful. Which seems to be what people accuse them off.

    Underhanded and deceitful is impinging on user rights, without ever telling them.
    I'd be looking at any company twice who allows this sort of practice to carry on.

    Now in saying that, it was different era and the entire board structure is vastly different at Sony than it was back then.

    But please, if MS is guilty of anything it was of informing you and gauging your reactions.
    Good point there. Also, I agree with most of what you said but Microsoft weren't completely upfront.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    BMG is Sony BMG, they were 50/50 by Sony. Yeah, looking at the damn thread topic, I agree. How the heck did these things get into a thread about the Xbox One developer complaints? I didn't even realize what thread I was replying to.
    Different department that made different decisions which PlayStation did not follow. Haven't been the first to follow so far. If they do rootkit again, sure call them out and don't buy their stuff.....but that's an old thing only being brought up to counter Microsoft's recent DRM move.

    My personal view on what Microsoft tried to do is that I don't have a big issue of what Microsoft was trying to do. I just think they could have done it without using the type of DRM they had outlined.

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