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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    And yet here you are still posting in the thread a few pages later. lol
    The thread is completely different from the article in the OP.

    The topic went from "article without any merit or new information", to DRM, to console preferences, to console reliability... now it's purchase justification. It's like a free for all lol.




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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    If Microsoft don't do that with the Xbox One you have a point. Sony did that with the PS3 because it can play Blu-ray movies while the X360 can't.

    EDIT

    This is not me saying Sony was justified in doing so. I am just saying this decision was dictated by the movie studios. I realize that Sony also has a stake in that. But as far I know, the same rule will apply to the Xbox One if it allows blu-ray movie playback.
    Not to bring it up again (which is exactly what I am doing, lol) -- I wanted to address the gaming portion of Sparc's post. I also want this to be clarified for me if I am wrong.

    PS3 has HDCP implementation because of blu-ray movie playback (as I understand) and because of that we don't get to record HD gameplay over HDMI. That's just a side effect of implementing HDCP over HDMI (this is what I want clarified.)

    I know the movie industry mandate to be true based on what I read around the internet when looking into buying elgato (almost bought blackmagic but decided against it since I won't be recording that much.) I just want to confirm if HDCP protection implemented for movie playback is causing the issue.

    So, we can't record gameplay because of HDCP which was implemented because of movie playback? I am correct in thinking this right?

    Xbox 360 isn't this way because they don't have blu-ray and aren't required to implement HDCP and the positive effect of that (not having HDCP) is you can record HD gameplay using HDMI.

    Oddly enough, I bought elgato to record some gameplay. I am using S-Video from the PS3 to the device and then using HDMI to the TV and my settings on the PS3 have the following checked: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and it does let me record in 1080p even though the instructions say to uncheck 1080p.

    I am not saying that I am bypassing the HDCP protection because I'm not....but I would assume since the TV recognizes it as 1080p, it's letting me record in 1080p.
    Last edited by sainraja; 09-16-2013 at 23:13.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The thread is completely different from the article in the OP.

    The topic went from "article without any merit or new information", to DRM, to console preferences, to console reliability... now it's purchase justification. It's like a free for all lol.
    All roads lead to purchase justification I think F34R. Subconsciously or otherwise. You'll find it the underlying root cause to most discussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    All roads lead to purchase justification I think F34R. Subconsciously or otherwise. You'll find it the underlying root cause to most discussions.
    Yeah, that seems to be the theme I guess.




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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    All roads lead to purchase justification I think F34R. Subconsciously or otherwise. You'll find it the underlying root cause to most discussions.
    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Yeah, that seems to be the theme I guess.
    Applies to everyone.

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  7. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The thread is completely different from the article in the OP. The topic went from "article without any merit or new information", to DRM, to console preferences, to console reliability... now it's purchase justification. It's like a free for all lol.
    Made it more interesting though right? It kept you participating. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    All roads lead to purchase justification I think F34R. Subconsciously or otherwise. You'll find it the underlying root cause to most discussions.
    Yep youre exactly right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    By your logic, I could shoot a man DEAD for the simple fact I hated the style of shoes he was wearing.....and that's perfectly "reasonable".

    People have the right to NOT buy something for any reason..... but it being a REASONABLE decision is a whole different animal.
    Thats a pretty extreme analogy you are using there and I don't think it is a very fair one. I will say "ANY" reason is not a reasonable explaination for not choosing the X1...but it is hard to say someones reason they come up with isn't a reasonable though. Say I don't want one because the products name is Xbox 1 and its the 3rd generation xbox....probably not a legit reason...but truthfully whether they think it cost too much, hate MS products, despise american capitalism, don't like the design, hate the controller, don't like the games, dislike the forced kinect, don't like that the company changes their stance on drm or other policies (which means they could switch back later or seemingly has poor customer policies) and so many more ARE REASONABLE...just about any reason someone can come up with...really....is reasonable because a being reasonable is a very very subjective term.

    That is why many court cases get thrown out and people get off on murder...because the word reasonable is so different for so many people. People last gen could have said they weren't buy a PS3 because it didn't come with a standard hdmi cable. Yes..thats reasonable decision albeit one I would disagree with...but if its something that factors into their decision and is consistant with their purchasing behavior that is all that matters. So many factors go into purchasing a consumer product and the company releasing them has to take as many as possible into consideration. They know they can't satisfy 100% so they have to focus on features, price, quality, and design that will be reasonable for as many as they can. I imagine most people on here aren't being honest on the reasons behind their purchasing decisions for fear of others opinions but regardless of the reasons...they are all reasonable to that individual..and thats what matters to Sony and MS in terms of sales.


    As for being off topic...I apologize..after a couple pages of reading I forgot what the topic was. I think people can put enough info that has been leaked out there to conclude that it was reported last year MS was having yield issues, couple that with the change of policy and design it has caused delays in getting the drivers and dev tools to the developers and thus they are further behind Sony. Thus developers are working with more advanced tools and yes more powerful hardware are able to see significant differences in their games so far...thus leading them to conclude the PS4 is faster to develop for and the more powerful of the two consoles..perhaps even by 50% at this point due to specs and dev tools. Sure I assume that will change as MS gets caught up but it would be hard to ever get them to an even ground with Sony with the difference in components and Sony's improved relationship with the development community.

  10. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by davin_g View Post
    Thats a pretty extreme analogy you are using there and I don't think it is a very fair one. I will say "ANY" reason is not a reasonable explaination for not choosing the X1...but it is hard to say someones reason they come up with isn't a reasonable though. Say I don't want one because the products name is Xbox 1 and its the 3rd generation xbox....probably not a legit reason...but truthfully whether they think it cost too much, hate MS products, despise american capitalism, don't like the design, hate the controller, don't like the games, dislike the forced kinect, don't like that the company changes their stance on drm or other policies (which means they could switch back later or seemingly has poor customer policies) and so many more ARE REASONABLE...just about any reason someone can come up with...really....is reasonable because a being reasonable is a very very subjective term.

    That is why many court cases get thrown out and people get off on murder...because the word reasonable is so different for so many people. People last gen could have said they weren't buy a PS3 because it didn't come with a standard hdmi cable. Yes..thats reasonable decision albeit one I would disagree with...but if its something that factors into their decision and is consistant with their purchasing behavior that is all that matters. So many factors go into purchasing a consumer product and the company releasing them has to take as many as possible into consideration. They know they can't satisfy 100% so they have to focus on features, price, quality, and design that will be reasonable for as many as they can. I imagine most people on here aren't being honest on the reasons behind their purchasing decisions for fear of others opinions but regardless of the reasons...they are all reasonable to that individual..and thats what matters to Sony and MS in terms of sales.


    As for being off topic...I apologize..after a couple pages of reading I forgot what the topic was. I think people can put enough info that has been leaked out there to conclude that it was reported last year MS was having yield issues, couple that with the change of policy and design it has caused delays in getting the drivers and dev tools to the developers and thus they are further behind Sony. Thus developers are working with more advanced tools and yes more powerful hardware are able to see significant differences in their games so far...thus leading them to conclude the PS4 is faster to develop for and the more powerful of the two consoles..perhaps even by 50% at this point due to specs and dev tools. Sure I assume that will change as MS gets caught up but it would be hard to ever get them to an even ground with Sony with the difference in components and Sony's improved relationship with the development community.
    Yes. I apologize for leading the topic off myself. I'm just as guilty as anyone else. Let's please try to discuss the topic at hand.




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  11. #135
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    wall of text

    Last edited by Omar; 09-17-2013 at 01:19.

  12. #136
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    Is this thread this even on topic anymore?! haha

    Thanks to Final for the sick sig!

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    Quote Originally Posted by three3-times View Post
    Is this thread this even on topic anymore?! haha
    I think you're seven pages too late.




  14. #138
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    As long as people aren't calling each other names, does it matter? Conversations drift at times. I'm not saying this should be the rule but sometimes that is okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    As long as people aren't calling each other names, does it matter? Conversations drift at times. I'm not saying this should be the rule but sometimes that is okay.
    I agree with big nose

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Maybe you should try reading the whole thread and you will see where I posted the actual reason that I chose the PS4. But since you brought it up which Sony console had or was going to have the same DRM policies the X1 was going to have?
    Sorry, missed your reply.

    Well okay, let's scrap everything I said in my previous reply to you and just remember that Sony did this earlier this year (one has to ask 'why' and 'when did they make THEIR u-turn')

    Now I resume my 'Happy hunting..' ending

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    Sorry, missed your reply. Well okay, let's scrap everything I said in my previous reply to you and just remember that Sony did this earlier this year (one has to ask 'why' and 'when did they make THEIR u-turn') Now I resume my 'Happy hunting..' ending
    Ok, fair enough. Good to see you back btw.

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    Yeah it would have been bad if that was implemented.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    Sorry, missed your reply.

    Well okay, let's scrap everything I said in my previous reply to you and just remember that Sony did this earlier this year (one has to ask 'why' and 'when did they make THEIR u-turn')

    Now I resume my 'Happy hunting..' ending

    this isn't a reply to you just in general, but i quoted you to prove my point.

    just because a company patents something doesn't necessarily mean they're going to use it. just putting the good word out there. I heard this too when it was released and didn't believe for a second that Sony would do that, that was why I was shocked when MS did it because I knew of the backlash it would get. safe to say I was right



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  22. #144
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    I think Sony was smart to wait out and see. This proves even more that they're level headed (PlayStation Division) when it comes to serious $#@! like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I think Sony was smart to wait out and see. This proves even more that they're level headed (PlayStation Division) when it comes to serious $#@! like this.
    Yeah they just played the better hand.




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  24. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    I agree with big nose
    haha, I see what you did there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    Sorry, missed your reply.

    Well okay, let's scrap everything I said in my previous reply to you and just remember that Sony did this earlier this year (one has to ask 'why' and 'when did they make THEIR u-turn')

    Now I resume my 'Happy hunting..' ending
    Yeah, if they had implemented that it would have been bad. Now they know how people will react.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    haha, I see what you did there.



    Yeah, if they had implemented that it would have been bad. Now they know how people will react.
    Sony played the smart game. No two ways about it. MS were outthunk

    P.S. You don't really have a big nose

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    wall of text

    Well Sufi... you posted your reply on the eve of GTA 5 while I was in line. Didn't respond or even log-on to the forums cuz I've been all about GTA 5. Now that I'm taking a break... time to respond.





    To davin_g.....

    Of course the person making the decision thinks their reason is REASONABLE. But when they make public their reasons for something, I have just as much right to declare their reasoning as being UNREASONABLE and argue my case as to why.
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 10-02-2013 at 04:55.

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    But the FACT is.... none of what MS announced was implemented. Again.... hold them accountable for what they DO...not what they ANNOUNCE and 180 30 days later. You are convicting them of a crime they merely TALKED about doing, not a crime they actually committed. Just because you didn't like what they announced doesn't mean you have to boycott the product if the stuff you don't like isn't in the product in the end.
    That is not relevant. Microsoft's plan was to implement it. Their stance changed because of consumer response. They did work on those features and have the technology ready to implement it -- they just weren't able to convince everyone that it is OK for them to push the 'GO' button.

    It is like a restaurant. Consider each employee in their job positions as different divisions of a company. And if one of those employees (divisions) screws up, it affects the whole restaurant's (company's) reputation.


    Every big decision in each division is approved by the parent company. There is no getting around that. And if you buy a product from one of Sony's other divisions... you are saying to Sony.... I'm willing to put money in your coffers
    and overlook how you were willing to screw over consumers in another division as long as you don't screw over your consumers in the division I like.


    Kinda like telling a thief that you are cool with him stealing from people as long as he ain't stealing from people in your household. As long as it doesn't affect you, you are willing to over look his crimes on others.
    You're missing the point. For PlayStation consumer, who was introduced to Sony because of PlayStation, isn't going to know or care about what happened in another division. They are only going to be concerned with what Sony is doing with the PlayStation business.


    I have worked in QC as a matter of fact. I worked for a hard drive magnetic head manufacturer. We made sure to not let problems go into the final product. Otherwise the hard disk companies would return defective product and would reduce their future contracts with us as a result.

    The RROD was a result of the solder being heated and cooled back and forth over time that weakened it and caused the pins to eventually separate from contact to the motherboard. In QC they would stress test a motherboard either in all heat or all cold. They don't cycle it from hot to cold to hot to cold over and over again in a way that simulates the hours of use and hours of cool down a console encounters over the course of a year.


    Tungsten incandescent light bulb filaments last longest when left on all the time or when left off all the time. Where they weaken and become brittle is the constant heating and cooling that comes with turning a light off and on. This is well known in lightbulbs. This is not well known in consoles. If they had known this was gonna be an issue, they would have come up with a fix or delayed. Letting it go out knowingly defective only opens you up to expensive warranty repairs and a hit to your reputation.
    You're trying hard to justify it.

    Like any other company would do....except Sony of course. They didn't fix out of warranty flaws for free or extend the warranties on their defective products
    If the situation was on the same scale as RROD, they would have had to. No, not because they are kind. They are a BUSINESS. They would have done it for the same reason Microsoft did.

    That's years ago. Go type in Sony DRM ROOTKIT and look for the backlash yourself. I'm not gonna go looking for it for you. The backlash was there. Go look for yourself.
    You can't compare that with RROD. I realize you are going to argue that it was -- and it very well may have been. The thing is, social media/blogs have given consumers a lot of power and many ways to voice it. So, even if you can convince us that rootkit was just as big (even though you conveniently ignore the fact that it was a joint-venture between Sony and BMG -- we don't know how much say Sony did, or did not have) it wouldn't have seemed as big because of the lack of social media/blogs/social networks, etc.

    Cuz the parent company approved of the DRM and you aren't making them pay a price for such awful treatment of their customers by purchasing a PS4 and it's games. Again... being okay with a thief as long as they are stealing from everybody but YOU.
    Time relevance -- you ignore this because it's convenient. Sony didn't do it with the PS3. Sony showed no signs of doing it with the PS4 -- if anything, that shows that they LEARNED from rootkit, from their mistake. They have had plenty of time from that point to now to earn back trust. Microsoft may not have actually gone through with it but they have upset consumers whose loyalty they will have to gain back WITH time. Just like Sony with rootkit. I know some haven't forgotten (you being the prime example.)

    The time frame doesn't matter. If it's a design defect, they should pay for it's replacement....NOT the consumer paying for THEIR mistake.
    It does matter. You ignore it because it suits your argument.

    Doesn't matter severity or frequency. Their $#@! up.... they should fix it for free...PERIOD! It shouldn't be "well.... we will fix it for free if enough people have issues with it". Microsoft not only fixed the current 360 failures due to RROD, but offered REIMBURSEMENT for those that had already fixed it with their own money. My friend was reimbursed for his RROD fix.
    Lol. Microsoft fixed it because quite a significant amount of people were having trouble with their hardware. Do you remember the quote: "...things break..."

    Microsoft HAD to do that. You know this too. You won't admit it, however.

    A Playstation that stops wiorking is a MAJOR issue. Doesn't matter how little or often it happens. Sony felt it enough of a problem to redesign the consoles. So if it's a design problem on their part, fix those that have it for FREE. Don't $#@!ing charge them for your $#@! up!
    Yeah, that is a major issue. RROD was a critical issue.

    I am not going to respond to the rest of your post. After responding to the above I am seeing a pattern and it's just you in defense mode.

    I've been there so I am going to stop here.
    Last edited by sainraja; 10-02-2013 at 05:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    That is not relevant. Microsoft's plan was to implement it. Their stance changed because of consumer response. They did work on those features and have the technology ready to implement it -- they just weren't able to convince everyone that it is OK for them to push the 'GO' button.


    The BOTTOM LINE is.... it never happened. If it wasn't implemented, there isn't a problem. It may have hurt your "feelings" that they announced it, but nothing actually happened.




    You're missing the point. For PlayStation consumer, who was introduced to Sony because of PlayStation, isn't going to know or care about what happened in another division. They are only going to be concerned with what Sony is doing with the PlayStation business.

    They may not care about other divisions, but if they want to know what Sony is capable of doing they should care.


    You're trying hard to justify it.

    That's a cop out. Instead of responding specifically, you give a non-answer answer. You're trying hard to avoid it.



    If the situation was on the same scale as RROD, they would have had to. No, not because they are kind. They are a BUSINESS. They would have done it for the same reason Microsoft did.

    Microsoft didn't HAVE to reimburse those that had paid for their RROD fixes prior to the free RROD fix and 3-year warranty extension.... but they did. THAT is being kind. Offering to fix RROD consoles that had failure codes that were NOT related to the soldering issue...is being kind. LEGALLY they could have only repaired issues that had to do with the design flaw and the people that happen to have another component naturally fail (like a fried graphics chip was one of them) would not legally need to be fixed for free.... but they did.

    What did Sony do for their $#@! ups? NOTHING!



    You can't compare that with RROD. I realize you are going to argue that it was -- and it very well may have been. The thing is, social media/blogs have given consumers a lot of power and many ways to voice it. So, even if you can convince us that rootkit was just as big (even though you conveniently ignore the fact that it was a joint-venture between Sony and BMG -- we don't know how much say Sony did, or did not have) it wouldn't have seemed as big because of the lack of social media/blogs/social networks, etc.

    You can compare it to RROD. I know that's not convenient for your argument, but the backlash of the two can be compared.

    As for Sony and BMG? They were 50/50 joint venture. Which means if Sony doesn't approve as the other half owner, it doesn't happen. Also....BMG is a music company, Sony is the technology company. Which half of the ownership came up with the development of the DRM TECHNOLOGY...... that's right, Sony..... the technology company. They were balls deep in it's development and implementation.


    Time relevance -- you ignore this because it's convenient. Sony didn't do it with the PS3. Sony showed no signs of doing it with the PS4 -- if anything, that shows that they LEARNED from rootkit, from their mistake. They have had plenty of time from that point to now to earn back trust. Microsoft may not have actually gone through with it but they have upset consumers whose loyalty they will have to gain back WITH time. Just like Sony with rootkit. I know some haven't forgotten (you being the prime example.)

    You ignore a lot cuz it's convenient. Two can play that game.

    As for Sony not showing any signs of doing it for the PS4? When it's a secret internal issue, they certainly aren't gonna SHOW signs of it. Did they show SIGNS that the PS4 was gonna have a $399 priice tag BEFORE the console's announcement....NOPE. Just cuz signs aren't being shown, doesn't mean the discussions weren't being made. If consumers had been cool with the Xbox One's DRM, I have no doubt Sony would have started the ball rolling in that direction. They let MS be the guinea pig...... the finger in the wind for DRM on consoles.


    It does matter. You ignore it because it suits your argument.

    As Ronald Reagan told both Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale in the presidential debates.... "There you go again!" How about telling me HOW it matters?



    Lol. Microsoft fixed it because quite a significant amount of people were having trouble with their hardware. Do you remember the quote: "...things break..."

    Microsoft HAD to do that. You know this too. You won't admit it, however.

    They didn't HAVE to reimburse people who paid for their fixes. It's already fixed, so how in a court of law are they gonna be able to prove that what was fixed had to do with a design flaw? They simply sent it in, paid the money and got a working console back. Pretty hard to prove and MS knows this...... yet paid anyways.



    Yeah, that is a major issue. RROD was a critical issue.

    I am not going to respond to the rest of your post. After responding to the above I am seeing a pattern and it's just you in defense mode.

    I've been there so I am going to stop here.

    Yes... pretty smart for you to stop cuz I was seeing a pattern here from you too...."You ignore it because it suits your argument." Saw that rehashed a few times in your post without you coming up with a counter-argument instead. As for "defense mode"? When you make an argument and you defend that argument... yes .... that is called a defense. That is what debate is all about.....making arguments and defending them.

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