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  1. #76
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    I gotta say we've had months of the master race thumping their chest about their PC and how it will run all those games launching for nextgen consoles at 4k/60fps and I've always said it was best to wait for specs and now I've actually seen specs for Watchdogs I can safely say


    Nextgen consoles must have secret source lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terarrim View Post
    Look at Beyond 2 Souls as an example of what is possible on PS3. Large parts of this are possible due to the Cell and the software support from Sony. This processor used for parallel processing of floating point is a monster (single percision). Now this was a 216 gflop machine. While not having access to the full power of the GPU in certain frames when the GPU is doing inifficient GPU processes like shadow maps then sofware/devs will have access to a large part of 1.86 tflops.
    There is nothing about QD games(?) that said "technical" or "advance" in term of rendering.

    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    Nextgen consoles must have secret source lol

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    Yes, it call 720p, medium setting.
    Last edited by reasonable_doubt; 10-02-2013 at 23:33.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I wish you guys would stop throwing the word HUMA around, because it doesn't have that tech in it. The XBO one has a closer setup to HUMA than the PS4 does, and even then I struggle to associate the word with it.

    Can we just say that these console have cache coherent memory access to shared memory. Snooping the CPU cache to make sure your memory read is correct is not the same as passing a memory pointer between CPU and GPU.

    The PS4 has to tag this memory and treat it in special ways, the idea of HUMA is there are no boundaries like that.
    cache coherent memory access to shared memory..

    ....doesn't exactly roll off the tongue,
    mynd. Can I just say "huma" and pretend I know what I'm talking about? So like....next time I'm at McDonalds, I'm going to ask for a side of "huma" with my burger. Or "miss, what aisle do you keep your huma on?" Or "honey....the doctor says I have huma...sob"

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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    There is nothing about QD games(?) that said "technical" or "advance" in term of rendering.



    Yes, it call 720p, medium setting.
    Yes judging by specs thats what most PC owners will be playing at, or was a dig at the nextgen consoles?
    Btw for those that don't know
    The specs for watchdogs is
    Recommended
    GPU: DirectX 11 graphics card with 2 GB Video RAM
    CPU: Eight core
    RAM: 8GB

    Minimum
    GPU: DirectX 11 graphics card with 1 GB Video RAM
    CPU: Quad core
    RAM: 4GB



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  6. #80
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    The reason people are saying that it's a medium spec PC or mid range PC is because of the fact that the GPU within that apu is most likely considered a 7860. It's above that of a 7850 but just below a 7870 but that's in terms of GPU name like Radeon 7990 or whatever else. Going by the name numbers so who knows. If it's running BF4 at 60fps at a resolution higher than 720p, it's probably considered more of a 7860.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlWINSLOW View Post




    just a few more rudimentary examples
    The graphics look okay here, but the physics are last gen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Unless you overclocked that thing to hell and back, no your GPU is not 4.9 flops. 2.8-3.3 teraflops is what that card clocks in at, depending on the model.
    It doesn't really matter if it's overclocked or not. PCs have the breathing room for overclocking like this. It's just another power benefit that PC has over the small boxes and low power GPUs consoles have to have.

  9. #83
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    Every time I see the word huma, I get a craving for hummus. kind of odd.

  10. #84
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    I'm a PC gamer about 90% of the time, but have nothing against consoles. I have both a PS3 and 360 and I love the PS3 b/c of the exclusives it has and the 360....well....given this is a Playstation board and it will sound fanboyish....I still think it leaves a lot to be desired.

    That said, could you give your background on how am I suppose to know if you have any real credit with what you are saying. I didn't read it as I was hoping there would be a link to someone in the biz that was saying it.

    I don't want the new consoles to be crap or whatever. I don't even care if they are medium spec PCs. The visuals I've seen of them are beyond fine for me and honestly...I was kind of excited when I saw this thread hoping that the new consoles would be.

    But as you can tell....I'm a bit skeptical. There have been numerous articles stating that the new consoles are already behind PCs and these were by ppl who know what they are talking about.

    TL;DR - I don't know who you are and would like to read your post knowing whether or not you know what you're talking about or if you're just some random "fanboy". I don't want consoles to fail....I like consoles.

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    maybe you should just read the post. It's not like it's going to take you a half hour or anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotive View Post
    I'm a PC gamer about 90% of the time, but have nothing against consoles. I have both a PS3 and 360 and I love the PS3 b/c of the exclusives it has and the 360....well....given this is a Playstation board and it will sound fanboyish....I still think it leaves a lot to be desired.

    That said, could you give your background on how am I suppose to know if you have any real credit with what you are saying. I didn't read it as I was hoping there would be a link to someone in the biz that was saying it.

    I don't want the new consoles to be crap or whatever. I don't even care if they are medium spec PCs. The visuals I've seen of them are beyond fine for me and honestly...I was kind of excited when I saw this thread hoping that the new consoles would be.

    But as you can tell....I'm a bit skeptical. There have been numerous articles stating that the new consoles are already behind PCs and these were by ppl who know what they are talking about.

    TL;DR - I don't know who you are and would like to read your post knowing whether or not you know what you're talking about or if you're just some random "fanboy". I don't want consoles to fail....I like consoles.
    I often get TL,DR in which case dont read and dont bother replying lol. However you will see I hope for discussion and if people challange me then I have read many sources and in reply to people have linked techincal articles and interviews to back up what I am saying.

    I am not saying I am defintly right which is because some of the tech has never being used in this way before (Most Powerfull APU, 8 Ace's 64 queues, larged bandwith between CPU, GPU (more than PC's), HSA/hUMA "like" (for mind :P) tech, SPURS etc) we dont now exactly how much of a boost this will be.

    For me I am very optimistic and in later posts I have shown why given the new AMD Mantle as an example that they are saying a GPU that is one 1tfp in performance weaker is going to operate much better than its more powerfull counter part.

    As for my background I was in the IT industry as a Telcoms officer dealing with call routing, large and small switches, IpMux (coms over network) etc. I also worked in server rooms as operator for the my work for a time as well. So while I am not a games developer or write my own code I have had some experiance in the industry and would have to have technical knowledge to do the jobs that I did.
    Last edited by Terarrim; 10-03-2013 at 02:53.
    The PS3 looks more than good enough for me .

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    maybe you should just read the post. It's not like it's going to take you a half hour or anything.
    Look at it from my skeptical standpoint.....I don't know him and don't know his background....so why would I spend time reading such a long post when it could be total crap.

    But he said he was in IT and such in the other post so I will read it knowing that he's got some background. At least he's not some 13 year old with just a bunch on opinionated nonsense.

    Again...I'm not looking to poke holes and it's not like I want what he said to be wrong....I just want to know that I'm not wasting time or giving attention to someone who doesn't deserve it.

  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    The reason people are saying that it's a medium spec PC or mid range PC is because of the fact that the GPU within that apu is most likely considered a 7860. It's above that of a 7850 but just below a 7870 but that's in terms of GPU name like Radeon 7990 or whatever else. Going by the name numbers so who knows. If it's running BF4 at 60fps at a resolution higher than 720p, it's probably considered more of a 7860.
    Which would explain why they are targeting 900p for 60fps (I'm positive I read it was 900p for BF4)



    I think all of these numbers are being made into a bigger thing than they really are.

  15. #89
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    I never trust GPU comparisons like that though. They are never accurate and are always inflated to favor a GPU or CPU over another clearly because the main goal isn't the very top. I never have the same experience as these benchmarks and it will show in that benchmark once BF4 hits. If you look at the 7870 according to that benchmark, the frostbite engine isn't as optimized and is in fact worse. There is something with that benchmark that really bothers me, it reminds me of toms hardware in a way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I wish you guys would stop throwing the word HUMA around, because it doesn't have that tech in it. The XBO one has a closer setup to HUMA than the PS4 does, and even then I struggle to associate the word with it.

    Can we just say that these console have cache coherent memory access to shared memory. Snooping the CPU cache to make sure your memory read is correct is not the same as passing a memory pointer between CPU and GPU.

    The PS4 has to tag this memory and treat it in special ways, the idea of HUMA is there are no boundaries like that.
    Any links as to where you got that from? Everything I've read to date seriously suggests both consoles implement a version of hUMA, that is not the full final vision, but hUMA never the less.

    Certainly the CPU and GPU are able to address the same areas of RAM and there is no need for the CPU to copy data from one area to another for the GPU (as it does on PC's/existing systems).

    There's a post I thanked above somewhere with a link to an article that gives the best explaination I've read so far.

    (In case anyones wondering. As far as this subject goes you can class me as an "educated console gamer with a slight bias towards Sony". I do work in IT (networking), I have built countless PC's (Windows, Linux and Mac), I can write one or two lines of code in a few languages, I've been reading widely many technical articles on both consoles without bias since the PS4 was announce way back in Feb).

  17. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Any links as to where you got that from? Everything I've read to date seriously suggests both consoles implement a version of hUMA, that is not the full final vision, but hUMA never the less.
    It's cache coherent memory access, it is not hUMA.
    The UMA in hUMA, stands for Unified memory architecture.
    That is, all of the memory is full addressable by either unit without having to worry about anything.

    If you look at this....



    The PS4 lies in between step 2 and step 3. It has a third "pool" of memory that it shares.

    But it cant share all of it, nor would you want to on the PS4, as you limited to 20gb/s.

    Not only that but AMD even confirmed that the PS4 does not include hUMA, which isnt coming till Kavarei APU.


    Certainly the CPU and GPU are able to address the same areas of RAM and there is no need for the CPU to copy data from one area to another for the GPU (as it does on PC's/existing systems).

    There's a post I thanked above somewhere with a link to an article that gives the best explaination I've read so far.

    (In case anyones wondering. As far as this subject goes you can class me as an "educated console gamer with a slight bias towards Sony". I do work in IT (networking), I have built countless PC's (Windows, Linux and Mac), I can write one or two lines of code in a few languages, I've been reading widely many technical articles on both consoles without bias since the PS4 was announce way back in Feb).
    Your confusing hUMA, with HSA, hUMA is an important step towards HSA, but that doesn tmean AMD havent been making steps towards HSA for years....



    As you can see, AMD have been adding HSA features for years, the PS4 falls in the 2012 scale, while having the option to run fully coherent memory as an option only. It's a compromise at best.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  18. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    It's cache coherent memory access, it is not hUMA.
    The UMA in hUMA, stands for Unified memory architecture.
    That is, all of the memory is full addressable by either unit without having to worry about anything.

    If you look at this....



    The PS4 lies in between step 2 and step 3. It has a third "pool" of memory that it shares.

    But it cant share all of it, nor would you want to on the PS4, as you limited to 20gb/s.

    Not only that but AMD even confirmed that the PS4 does not include hUMA, which isnt coming till Kavarei APU.



    Your confusing hUMA, with HSA, hUMA is an important step towards HSA, but that doesn tmean AMD havent been making steps towards HSA for years....



    As you can see, AMD have been adding HSA features for years, the PS4 falls in the 2012 scale, while having the option to run fully coherent memory as an option only. It's a compromise at best.
    WTH are u talking about? I remember when that AMD rep accidentally blurted out that PS4 has hUMA, Xbone does not. Immediately TeamXbox went into overdrive "NUH! UH! XBOX TOO!" and now suddenly it's "HAHA XBOX ONLY". Your alternate reality psuedo tech spin is becoming unbearable.
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 10-03-2013 at 23:02.
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    PS4 is state of the art it is not a medium spec PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    WTH are u talking about? I remember when that AMD rep accidentally blurted out that PS4 has hUMA, Xbone does not. Immediately TeamXbox went into overdrive "NUH! UH! XBOX TOO!" and now suddenly it's "HAHA XBOX ONLY". Your alternate reality psuedo tech spin is becoming unbearable.
    Who said xbox only? They both have the same ability to read a memory location and make sure its cache coherent. Neither has HUMA.

    I do love how you cheery pick what you remember though. Conveniently omitting the fact that AMD retract that statement as being incorrect. And you level the alternative reality pseudo techno spin at other people. Go cherry pick your articles and hold on to whatever buzz word makes you sleep better at night. Wont make it true..


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  20. #94
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    As far I was aware both systems have hUMA but only the PS4 uses it with it's unified memory, whereas the Xbox One has it disabled because of the ESRAM interfering with the memory being unified, basically the the bandage for using DDR memory cripples its ability to use hUMA.
    I've been very up-to-date with the news and I haven't seen anything debunking this, unless I mustamissedaissue
    Either way hUMA or not it makes no difference with the consoles, the Xbox One has become less and less powerful then PS4 as time goes on, especially after the recent news about 10% of the performance being capped for Kinect/Snap, which many X fans thought was a 10%+ advantage

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    As far I was aware both systems have hUMA but only the PS4 uses it with it's unified memory, whereas the Xbox One has it disabled because of the ESRAM interfering with the memory being unified, basically the the bandage for using DDR memory cripples its ability to use hUMA.
    I'll ignore the HUMA thing for a moment, but regarding the memory you are incorrect.

    "The Xbox 360 was the easiest console platform to develop for, it wasn't that hard for our developers to adapt to eDRAM, but there were a number of places where we said, 'gosh, it would sure be nice if an entire render target didn't have to live in eDRAM' and so we fixed that on Xbox One where we have the ability to overflow from ESRAM into DDR3, so the ESRAM is fully integrated into our page tables and so you can kind of mix and match the ESRAM and the DDR memory as you go... From my perspective it's very much an evolution and improvement - a big improvement - over the design we had with the Xbox 360. I'm kind of surprised by all this, quite frankly."

    Indeed, the level of coherence between the ESRAM and the DDR3 memory pools sounds much more flexible than many previously thought. Many believed that the 32MB of ESRAM is a hard limit for render targets - so can developers really "mix and match" as Goossen suggests?

    "Oh, absolutely. And you can even make it so that portions of our your render target that have very little overdraw... for example if you're doing a racing game and your sky has very little overdraw, you could stick those sub-sets of your resources into DDR to improve ESRAM utilisation," he says, while also explaining that custom formats have been implemented to get more out of that precious 32MB.
    The machine does not differentiate between them they are fully addressable.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...one-architects

    I've been very up-to-date with the news and I haven't seen anything debunking this, unless I mustamissedaissue
    Clearly not that up to date

    Either way hUMA or not it makes no difference with the consoles, the Xbox One has become less and less powerful then PS4 as time goes on, especially after the recent news about 10% of the performance being capped for Kinect/Snap, which many X fans thought was a 10%+ advantage

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    It helps if you keep abreast of everything, regardless I think the best you could say about the the PS4 is it has "optional" hUMA, maybe OUMA?
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    Yes judging by specs thats what most PC owners will be playing at, or was a dig at the nextgen consoles?
    Btw for those that don't know
    The specs for watchdogs is
    Recommended
    GPU: DirectX 11 graphics card with 2 GB Video RAM
    CPU: Eight core
    RAM: 8GB

    Minimum
    GPU: DirectX 11 graphics card with 1 GB Video RAM
    CPU: Quad core
    RAM: 4GB
    For those that don't know, Watchdog's Graphics Technical Director has said that those specs are NOT real, and that the "Real specs will be coming soon, and will be LOWER"

    https://twitter.com/SebViard/status/385815285116063744



    If you actually thought that Watchdogs would recommend an 8 core CPU when the 6 core i7 outperforms every 8 core CPU on the market right now... LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Clearly not that up to date
    Its the shifts, moving from early to lates to earlys, I did a late tonight and I gotta be up early and its 3.21, I do try thou
    Btw link is missing

    It helps if you keep abreast of everything, regardless I think the best you could say about the the PS4 is it has "optional" hUMA, maybe OUMA?
    OUMA Lmao.
    Nah seriously, I don't think PS4 having OUMA will make any difference. The gap is already there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    For those that don't know, Watchdog's Graphics Technical Director has said that those specs are NOT real, and that the "Real specs will be coming soon, and will be LOWER"

    https://twitter.com/SebViard/status/385815285116063744



    If you actually thought that Watchdogs would recommend an 8 core CPU when the 6 core i7 outperforms every 8 core CPU on the market right now... LOL!
    Those specs were from the offical site so , if you actually lol that.....LOL....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shingo View Post
    Those specs were from the offical site so , if you actually lol that.....LOL....
    No they weren't. They were posted on UPlay in a couple of countries in Europe, NOT the official website, and no one would have known except it was picked up by the guys at NeoGaf. The error was corrected within hours. They were never posted on Ubisoft's website nor the official game website, and they were never posted in the US.

    What you have is a classic internet RUMOR that everyone picked up on and repeated as if it was truth.

    LOL for believing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    No they weren't. They were posted on UPlay in a couple of countries in Europe, NOT the official website, and no one would have known except it was picked up by the guys at NeoGaf. The error was corrected within hours. They were never posted on Ubisoft's website nor the official game website, and they were never posted in the US.

    What you have is a classic internet RUMOR that everyone picked up on and repeated as if it was truth.

    LOL for believing it.
    So the specs to a European game from a European publisher was posted on Uplay which is Ubisofts official games network which is on the official website and was only posted in European countries, but as it was not posted in the US on Ubisofts American site it is just a rumour, Which originated from Uplay, Ubisofts official games network which was posted only in Europe from a European publisher for a European game?......theres something odd about this and I cant put my finger on it :-/


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    Last edited by TGO; 10-04-2013 at 04:22.

    "Xbox is about to become the next water cooler”

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