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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Not anti consumer? Really, you are going to say that when everything could have been accomplished with DVD? (Because disc swapping is the invention of the devil, amirite?)
    By that logic, you're saying the use of CD's on Sega CD and then DVD's on PS2 when they were expensive was Anti-consumer.

    But that's not what I'm saying at all.

    The Camera isn't an integral part necessary for all gaming.

    A physical media is an integral part and necessary for gaming (and still is for those who don't have good quality broadband services.)

    The thoughts behind this that Camera's are not integral to game console needs while being able to read physical media is necessary.

    Advancing the technology in a necessary area is advancement and the fact that it's already going to be integrated isn't viewed as Anti-consumer from this perspective. Advancing the technology in an area that isn't necessary for a game console and forcing the customer to pay for it by not having bundles without even thought it's not integral to playing/using the system is Anti-consumer.

    All that said, I'm getting the Camera on PS4 and if I decided to get an XB1 next year, I'll be getting Kinect even if they decide to make a bundle w/o it.



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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    By that logic, you're saying the use of CD's on Sega CD and then DVD's on PS2 when they were expensive was Anti-consumer.

    But that's not what I'm saying at all.

    The Camera isn't an integral part necessary for all gaming.

    A physical media is an integral part and necessary for gaming (and still is for those who don't have good quality broadband services.)

    The thoughts behind this that Camera's are not integral to game console needs while being able to read physical media is necessary.

    Advancing the technology in a necessary area is advancement and the fact that it's already going to be integrated isn't viewed as Anti-consumer from this perspective. Advancing the technology in an area that isn't necessary for a game console and forcing the customer to pay for it by not having bundles without even thought it's not integral to playing/using the system is Anti-consumer.

    All that said, I'm getting the Camera on PS4 and if I decided to get an XB1 next year, I'll be getting Kinect even if they decide to make a bundle w/o it.
    CD's were an established format/standard when the sega cd launched (and it was an add on).

    DVD's were an established format/standard when the PS2 launched. Also the PS2 launch price was the same as the PS1 despite any additional costs of a DVD drive.

    Blu-Ray was not an established format/standard when the PS3 launched.

    You are missing the point with your camera vs media comparison. Sony didn't have to use a format other than DVD for the PS3. They only did so to ensure that Blu-Ray would likely win the format war over HD-DVD.

    DVD's worked just fine this generation, higher capacity media wasn't necessary. It will be for this upcoming generation, but it didn't have to be blu-ray or HD-DVD. Hell just look at nintendo's proprietary disc format with the wii u.


    Your last sentence doesn't make much sense. You are going to get the camera with the PS4, but complain about having to get the camera for the X1, even though it is very likely that kinect on X1 will receive much more support from developers than the camera for the PS4 (which looks like it won't go anywhere currently). Nobody is being forced to buy these consoles at launch, people can wait for price drops.

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    CD's were an established format/standard when the sega cd launched (and it was an add on).

    DVD's were an established format/standard when the PS2 launched. Also the PS2 launch price was the same as the PS1 despite any additional costs of a DVD drive.

    Blu-Ray was not an established format/standard when the PS3 launched.

    You are missing the point with your camera vs media comparison. Sony didn't have to use a format other than DVD for the PS3. They only did so to ensure that Blu-Ray would likely win the format war over HD-DVD.

    DVD's worked just fine this generation, higher capacity media wasn't necessary. It will be for this upcoming generation, but it didn't have to be blu-ray or HD-DVD. Hell just look at nintendo's proprietary disc format with the wii u.


    Your last sentence doesn't make much sense. You are going to get the camera with the PS4, but complain about having to get the camera for the X1, even though it is very likely that kinect on X1 will receive much more support from developers than the camera for the PS4 (which looks like it won't go anywhere currently). Nobody is being forced to buy these consoles at launch, people can wait for price drops.
    Let me 'See Spot Run' this down for you.

    Car Needs Engine.

    Sell Car with Engine.

    Put in Super expensive Engine - Not make it Anti-consumer

    Car not need super expensive Entertainment System.

    Car make add in Super Expensive Entertainment System for 100% of consumers becomes Anti-Consumer.

    Everyone use Super Expensive Engine not everyone use Super Expensive Entertainment System.

    Get the concept.



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    I'm pretty sure the PS Move camera was originally mandatory, but they wanted a price advantage. So they cut the camera and are pretending like they never considered it.

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    WTF
    DVD was not an established format when PS2 was released, it was on the market for years before and never took off till PS2 released, Blu-ray took off quicker but DVD hasn't died off as quickly as VHS did.

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  8. #31
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    It's a business and Sony wants their system to sell so making it $100 cheaper is a smart move. Saying what microsoft is doing is anti consumer is true. From a consumer standpoint it's true.

    Quote Originally Posted by TGO View Post
    WTF
    DVD was not an established format when PS2 was released, it was on the market for years before and never took off till PS2 released, Blu-ray took off quicker but DVD hasn't died off as quickly as VHS did.

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    He probably meant for consoles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    I'm pretty sure the PS Move camera was originally mandatory, but they wanted a price advantage. So they cut the camera and are pretending like they never considered it.
    Wait...What ?!
    Just because MS went with mandatory kinect crap it does not mean Sony had something like that in mind. And you are pretty sure ? Based on what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JVH View Post
    Wait...What ?!
    Just because MS went with mandatory kinect crap it does not mean Sony had something like that in mind. And you are pretty sure ? Based on what ?
    It was a rumour.

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  11. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    Blu-Ray was not forced though as it was an upgrade in technology. That's like saying HD is forced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkNemesis View Post
    Blu-Ray was not forced though as it was an upgrade in technology. That's like saying HD is forced.
    You mean I could buy a PS3 w/o a Blu-Ray player??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    You mean I could buy a PS3 w/o a Blu-Ray player??
    Can you buy a 360 without a DVD-player ? An N64 without cartridge slot ? You must have some kind of media to store the games on and without that it won´t work...
    With your logic everything is forced, USB, DVD, Blu-Ray, gamepad, HDMI, WiFi and so on....
    A camera is not something that is necessary for a console to play games and should not be mandatory for it to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JVH View Post
    Can you buy a 360 without a DVD-player ?
    Who cares? The Xbox 360 didn't force me to spend another 300$ for a fancy Blu-Ray player.

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    The Blu-Ray was forced. It wasn't needed for gaming......nice...yes.....needed.....no. DVD more than proved itself sufficient for gaming as the 360 has proven. Why did Sony force built-in wi-fi on us with the PS3 when a Ethernet port works fine? Convenient..yes... needed for gaming? No. But we still had to pay for it.

    I can come up with a bunch of things on the PS3 that weren't "needed" for gaming.

    As for Kinect being forced? Anti-consumer? I could make the same argument for having to buy a whole bag of potato chips, when I only needed or wanted one potato chip.

    Matrix...
    BTW...I like your retort about the PSN hack. Sony's network gave up the goods on it's customers through bad security and yet they worry about Microsoft somehow.

    And you are also right that the NSA will get far more useful info from emails, texts and monitoring of phone calls then watching you relaxing in front of your games console.
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 10-02-2013 at 10:51.

  17. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    The Blu-Ray was forced. It wasn't needed for gaming......nice...yes.....needed.....no. DVD more than proved itself sufficient for gaming as the 360 has proven. Why did Sony force built-in wi-fi on us with the PS3 when a Ethernet port works fine? Convenient..yes... needed for gaming? No. But we still had to pay for it.
    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!
    did wi-fi module in ps3 fire rise price for 100$ i dont think so
    also at start blu-ray wasnt so nessesary, but later it became. bigger format is always better for gaming. lets look. back to cd era disk switching was real pain in the ass, if there was only 2 cd is ok, but if 4 or 7 like Phantasmagoria, just mandess,especially when you need back to locatons from previous disks. or FF series, they was multy disk on ps1 era, but in ps2 era they can put such big game on 1 dvd, then same thing with ff13, that use 1 BR disk on ps3, but 3 DL dvd on 360
    Last edited by FireSol; 10-02-2013 at 11:18.

  18. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    You mean I could buy a PS3 w/o a Blu-Ray player??
    PS3 even upscaled regular DVDs. I'm honestly not sure what you are on about. If Sony was acting even as remotely heavy-handed as you pretend they did, why on earth would PS3 upscale DVDs? Out of the box. Day One.

    You bought into Microsofts PR hook, line and sinker. The fact you are pimping a 2006 warcry in 2013 is just.... sad.

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  20. #41
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    This thread is starting to get ridiculous

    Doesnt matter if Sony putting Blu Ray into the PS3 was "anti consumer" the benefits out way any negatives.
    Discs can hold more data, and are quite hard to scratch to the point you get issues. (No fear of loaning games out to friends anymore, or renting a game and not getting a dud. How can you complain?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    This thread is starting to get ridiculous

    Doesnt matter if Sony putting Blu Ray into the PS3 was "anti consumer" the benefits out way any negatives.
    Discs can hold more data, and are quite hard to scratch to the point you get issues. (No fear of loaning games out to friends anymore, or renting a game and not getting a dud. How can you complain?)
    Because it is a whole lot more convenient to talk badly about BluRay than to qualify Kinect being mandatory as a good thing.

    For core gamers, the motion control debate was over last generation. Case in point:
    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...ar-future.aspx

    While PS3 production remains at a clip for the foreseeable future, the champion of motion controls is being phased out. Kinect supporters know full well they are on a sinking ship and every poll is showing that PS4 is set to take over the US console market, where XBox 360 performed predominately. It is what it is.

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  23. #43
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    I agree that it is "anti-consumer". I want to get the next gen system, I am getting it. However, I don't want Kinect. I didn't want to have to pay for it. I had to make a choice though. Either don't buy the system, or buy it. It wasn't an easy choice. I still have time to cancel my order if I can't stomach this crap any more.




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  25. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Because it is a whole lot more convenient to talk badly about BluRay than to qualify Kinect being mandatory as a good thing.

    For core gamers, the motion control debate was over last generation. Case in point:
    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...ar-future.aspx

    While PS3 production remains at a clip for the foreseeable future, the champion of motion controls is being phased out. Kinect supporters know full well they are on a sinking ship and every poll is showing that PS4 is set to take over the US console market, where XBox 360 performed predominately. It is what it is.
    Seriously. We could rehash every argument over the last 7-8 years at this point. Blu-ray, rumble, proprietary hard drives, HD DVD add-on.....and none of it changes the fact that a lot of folks don't want Kinect or more specifically, the X1's half a grand price tag.
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  27. #45
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    Sony putting a Blu ray in a PS3 is called progress.

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    Every time I see a post about how bluray isn't needed, I swear that blood shoots out of my nose or how it's forced onto people as a means to get back at PS4 supporters because of negativity with the Xbox One. Honestly, with a few posters there is no reason in even making a long thought out post because it will just go right over them. No point in even trying.

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    Aren't Microsoft anti-consumer fullstop?


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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  31. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shafty- View Post
    Aren't Microsoft anti-consumer fullstop?


    Said the TC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    This thread is starting to get ridiculous Doesnt matter if Sony putting Blu Ray into the PS3 was "anti consumer" the benefits out way any negatives. Discs can hold more data, and are quite hard to scratch to the point you get issues. (No fear of loaning games out to friends anymore, or renting a game and not getting a dud. How can you complain?)
    Yep, thats one of the things about bluray that I really like.

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    Some poster here, make absolutely irrelative "so-called" detection, just to turn this thread into a ps3 thread and stop posters talk about the crap Ms is trying to pull....
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