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    Forced camera is anti-consumer says Sony


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    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    LOL! When the alternative was HD-DVD? A format almost unilaterally supported by a software company with no manufacturing capacity? A format we'd have to replace due to its poor bandwidth for 4K video?

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No, seriously, no one should be able to laugh at you hard enough, I had to tone it down. Especially when equated with a camera that takes biometric data and can potentially distribute it over a paid network known for its embedded advertisement and data collection policies for marketing. Not to mention now being an infamous collaborator with the NSA in data mining.

    Oh, DO point THAT finger at Sony bro.
    Last edited by Lefein; 10-01-2013 at 13:32.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    Which is why they learned their lesson. Sony 2013 ain't Sony 2006.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    Let's see - Camera - Add-on functionality - Not critical to operation of a game console though MS wants it to be.

    VS

    A media interface for physical media - An item required. It was also used to win the High Def Disc war, but that's not anti-consumer and provided for the Disc Space needed to fit any game on one disc for the generation.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    Even though the PS3 played DVD's? You weren't forced into Bluray and you still aren't. Besides Blurays are way better then DVD's so I don't know why you are complaining.

    a Camera is completely optional and should be, you're not getting your media through the camera it's just another form of optional interaction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    LOL! When the alternative was HD-DVD? A format almost unilaterally supported by a software company with no manufacturing capacity? A format we'd have to replace due to its poor bandwidth for 4K video?

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No, seriously, no one should be able to laugh at you hard enough, I had to tone it down. Especially when equated with a camera that takes biometric data and can potentially distribute it over a paid network known for its embedded advertisement and data collection policies for marketing. Not to mention now being an infamous collaborator with the NSA in data mining.

    Oh, DO point THAT finger at Sony bro.
    Way to be obtuse. Obviously, I was referring to DVD's. There was no need for a format other than DVD (like HD DVD or Blu-Ray) on the PS3. ZOMG, you would have to swap discs for some games, the horror (nobody seemed to complain about doing so for FF 7.). And Sony had the benefit of a HDD in every console which would have minimized this issue. Blu-Ray was put in solely to ensure Sony had a much better chance at winning the format war and had no benefit for games/gamers. Without blu-ray the PS# could have launched earlier (around the the time the 360 did) and at a significantly lower price (much closer to that of the 360). Funny enough the PS3 did have support for games on DVD, but I can't think of any titles that shipped on a DVD. Everything was on Blu-Ray whether the space was needed or not.

    Your so claimed privacy worries are a joke. Because MS is guaranteed to use Kinect 2.0 (which can be disabled and unplugged) to gather data about X1 users which will be used for advertisements/marketing purposes and likely also given to the NSA if they ask for it.

    Yeah because both MS and the NSA really want to see this:





    Firstly MS can gather more than enough data just based on what you do on your console, with no need for additional "data" provided by kinect.

    Secondly you are assuming just because something is theoretically possible, it is guaranteed to happen. ZOMG, kinect included with every X1 = guaranteed data storage and mining of information for MS and the NSA.

    Did you flip out when Apple revealed a fingerprint sensor on the iphone 5s? Do you believe that biometric data will be stored and used by apple for their own purposes, and possibly given to the NSA?

    Are you part of the tinfoil had crowd?

    No, seriously, no one should be able to laugh at you hard enough.

    Again lets look at the breakdown.

    What could the NSA possibly gain from your gaming/home entertaining habits that they wouldn't get from your communication via the phone, texts, online posts and email messages? Seriously what more could they need/want that isn't provided by those things?

    Secondly you are acting as if MS is working with the NSA by itself and everybody else told the NSA to piss off. When it is true that every major company in the previously mentioned/related fields works with the NSA. Also you seem to assume MS is going above and beyond helping the NSA, when again many companies are offering the same level of compliance/cooperation. In case you are forgetting your history, MS doesn't have much reason to like the US govt.

    In addition you think/calm that MS isn't doing anything to secure your data/stand up for your privacy to the govt.

    Clearly that isn't the case (and just take a look at how many companies are selling you out):



    https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

    Base off of that report MS is doing pretty good job, better than most other companies.

    And finally you ask is I can point that finger at sony? Actually I can. Sony's security measure were not good enough to prevent PSN from being hacked and compromising the user information of 77 million accounts. No such intrusion/loss has occurred with xbox live. I think I'll take my chances with a company (in bed with the NSA as you claim) over Sony regarding my information. Another thing I will point out is that Sony has taken no steps to provided enhanced security on their andorid smartphones over claimed vulnerabilities and "holes" that allow access by the NSA (more easily than on competing smartphone OS platforms).

    So there you go.



    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    Let's see - Camera - Add-on functionality - Not critical to operation of a game console though MS wants it to be.

    VS

    A media interface for physical media - An item required. It was also used to win the High Def Disc war, but that's not anti-consumer and provided for the Disc Space needed to fit any game on one disc for the generation.
    Not anti consumer? Really, you are going to say that when everything could have been accomplished with DVD? (Because disc swapping is the invention of the devil, amirite?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmobley View Post
    Even though the PS3 played DVD's? You weren't forced into Bluray and you still aren't. Besides Blurays are way better then DVD's so I don't know why you are complaining.

    a Camera is completely optional and should be, you're not getting your media through the camera it's just another form of optional interaction.
    Pleas let me know where I can buy PS3 games on DVD, I would be grateful for such information.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    MS later stated that Kinect can just be turned off yet theyre still bundling it with the console and charging you $100 extra for it whether you want it or not. If its not needed for the console to function then why make it mandatory? Thats definitely anti-consumer.
    Really, you are saying this now, even this has been discussed a million times?

    I suggest you go as sufi that question, he should set you straight.

    Also even if MS made kinect mandatory for the X1 to function, you could (and likely would ) claim that such a decision is anti - consumer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Not anti consumer? Really, you are going to say that when everything could have been accomplished with DVD? (Because disc swapping is the invention of the devil, amirite?)
    By that logic, you're saying the use of CD's on Sega CD and then DVD's on PS2 when they were expensive was Anti-consumer.

    But that's not what I'm saying at all.

    The Camera isn't an integral part necessary for all gaming.

    A physical media is an integral part and necessary for gaming (and still is for those who don't have good quality broadband services.)

    The thoughts behind this that Camera's are not integral to game console needs while being able to read physical media is necessary.

    Advancing the technology in a necessary area is advancement and the fact that it's already going to be integrated isn't viewed as Anti-consumer from this perspective. Advancing the technology in an area that isn't necessary for a game console and forcing the customer to pay for it by not having bundles without even thought it's not integral to playing/using the system is Anti-consumer.

    All that said, I'm getting the Camera on PS4 and if I decided to get an XB1 next year, I'll be getting Kinect even if they decide to make a bundle w/o it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    By that logic, you're saying the use of CD's on Sega CD and then DVD's on PS2 when they were expensive was Anti-consumer.

    But that's not what I'm saying at all.

    The Camera isn't an integral part necessary for all gaming.

    A physical media is an integral part and necessary for gaming (and still is for those who don't have good quality broadband services.)

    The thoughts behind this that Camera's are not integral to game console needs while being able to read physical media is necessary.

    Advancing the technology in a necessary area is advancement and the fact that it's already going to be integrated isn't viewed as Anti-consumer from this perspective. Advancing the technology in an area that isn't necessary for a game console and forcing the customer to pay for it by not having bundles without even thought it's not integral to playing/using the system is Anti-consumer.

    All that said, I'm getting the Camera on PS4 and if I decided to get an XB1 next year, I'll be getting Kinect even if they decide to make a bundle w/o it.
    CD's were an established format/standard when the sega cd launched (and it was an add on).

    DVD's were an established format/standard when the PS2 launched. Also the PS2 launch price was the same as the PS1 despite any additional costs of a DVD drive.

    Blu-Ray was not an established format/standard when the PS3 launched.

    You are missing the point with your camera vs media comparison. Sony didn't have to use a format other than DVD for the PS3. They only did so to ensure that Blu-Ray would likely win the format war over HD-DVD.

    DVD's worked just fine this generation, higher capacity media wasn't necessary. It will be for this upcoming generation, but it didn't have to be blu-ray or HD-DVD. Hell just look at nintendo's proprietary disc format with the wii u.


    Your last sentence doesn't make much sense. You are going to get the camera with the PS4, but complain about having to get the camera for the X1, even though it is very likely that kinect on X1 will receive much more support from developers than the camera for the PS4 (which looks like it won't go anywhere currently). Nobody is being forced to buy these consoles at launch, people can wait for price drops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    Blu-Ray was not forced though as it was an upgrade in technology. That's like saying HD is forced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkNemesis View Post
    Blu-Ray was not forced though as it was an upgrade in technology. That's like saying HD is forced.
    You mean I could buy a PS3 w/o a Blu-Ray player??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    You mean I could buy a PS3 w/o a Blu-Ray player??
    Can you buy a 360 without a DVD-player ? An N64 without cartridge slot ? You must have some kind of media to store the games on and without that it won´t work...
    With your logic everything is forced, USB, DVD, Blu-Ray, gamepad, HDMI, WiFi and so on....
    A camera is not something that is necessary for a console to play games and should not be mandatory for it to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JVH View Post
    Can you buy a 360 without a DVD-player ?
    Who cares? The Xbox 360 didn't force me to spend another 300$ for a fancy Blu-Ray player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    You mean I could buy a PS3 w/o a Blu-Ray player??
    PS3 even upscaled regular DVDs. I'm honestly not sure what you are on about. If Sony was acting even as remotely heavy-handed as you pretend they did, why on earth would PS3 upscale DVDs? Out of the box. Day One.

    You bought into Microsofts PR hook, line and sinker. The fact you are pimping a 2006 warcry in 2013 is just.... sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    Blu-ray was part of the console. Kinect isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Blu-ray was part of the console. Kinect isn't.
    Semantics. Unless you can show me where I can buy and X1 (new, and unopened) from an official retailer without a kinect sensor, my point still stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Semantics. Unless you can show me where I can buy and X1 (new, and unopened) from an official retailer without a kinect sensor, my point still stands.
    I don't get it. What point will that prove?

    Sony couldn't have made changes to their hardware going towards launch since it was part of their console (this is not me saying they would have -- I am making a point.) It was a design choice they made (for business reasons and/or otherwise.)

    Microsoft STILL can. The reason people are still criticizing them heavily for it (and will continue to do so until they get what they want) -- because Microsoft already showed that they are willing to reverse policies.

    I am not getting an Xbox One (not anytime soon anyway) but I don't mind that Kinect is bundled. I just don't like that it's a separate accessory. So, I can understand those who don't want to pay for it.

    It's not gonna be hard for Microsoft to release a bundle without it and I expect that they will, eventually if not at launch.

    I should point out that I do think that including BLU-RAY was the right decision. I am glad that they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    While I loath the built in Kinect, it should be noted that Sony has a habit of saying their competition's ideas are bad right before Sony copies them. If anything this tells me that Sony will be requiring a camera soon.


    Remember when Sony said an Nvidia GPU in the PS3 would "make no sense either technologically or commercially"?
    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...-senior-source

    Or when Sony said they weren't interested in Motion Controls because it was just a gimmick?

    And now they say a required camera is anti-consumer................... Everyone get ready to buy your required PS4 camera systems now.
    Sony is going to give us a camera (PlayStation Eye) with the PS4 for $400 dollars? and you think people are going to complain?
    Last edited by sainraja; 10-04-2013 at 05:52.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Sony is going to give us a camera (PlayStation Eye) with the PS4 for $400 dollars? and you think people are going to complain?
    When that camera and is REQUIRED............. Yeah, I can see more than a few complaints. Unless every Playstation fan turns into a major hypocrite all of the sudden and decides Sony is great for doing precisely what they've condemned Microsoft for doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Blu-ray was part of the console. Kinect isn't.
    Kinect is actually part of the Xbox One console. Both are devices were made mandatory for the games to work and both are devices they felt should be mandatory for the console over being an 'after-the-fact' add-on. The only difference is that the Kinect has a detachable cord so that you can run the wire through the back of your TV cabinet and mount it on top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foraeli View Post
    Kinect is actually part of the Xbox One console. Both are devices were made mandatory for the games to work and both are devices they felt should be mandatory for the console over being an 'after-the-fact' add-on. The only difference is that the Kinect has a detachable cord so that you can run the wire through the back of your TV cabinet and mount it on top.
    Kinect isn't required for the console to work. Kinect is only required to use kinect features. Saying Kinect is part of the Xbox One console is like saying Kinect is a part of the Xbox 360, or the PS Eye is part of the PS3, etc.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Kinect isn't required for the console to work. Kinect is only required to use kinect features. Saying Kinect is part of the Xbox One console is like saying Kinect is a part of the Xbox 360, or the PS Eye is part of the PS3, etc.
    Oh yea. I forgot MS dropped that requirement. Still, Kinect is being forced into every Xbox One package just as Blu-Ray was forced into every PS3 package. The only difference being that Kinect only increased the Xbox One price by 25% while Blu-Ray increased the PS3 price by over 66%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Of course Sony would say this.

    Forced blu-ray was anti consumer when sony made it the defacto media format on the PS3.
    It's not like people were lining up over HD-DVDs...
    Not only that, but the forced camera issue is a major privacy breach, Blu-Ray is not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Georges View Post
    It's not like people were lining up over HD-DVDs...
    Not only that, but the forced camera issue is a major privacy breach, Blu-Ray is not.
    No such thing as privacy these days, there never was.

    Blu-Ray has calling home features, most devices do how is it any different to the camera, you do realise every time you play a game on your PS3 activity is logged and sent to Sony when the internet is connected, everything you do on your PS3 is logged that's how sony makes decisions, e.g majority of people didn't care about backwards compatibility so they got rid of it, they would have logged that data from people's console logs.
    " A Toll's a toll and a roll's a roll. If we don't get no toll's, then we don't eat no roll's"

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    It would be more surprising if Sony said it wasn't a bad thing :P

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    Lol sure sony saying this is normal, yet you should also state your own ideas instead of stating the FACT.lol. Oh and comparing camera with a disc reader is not right. Disc reader was a must, a camera that most does not care, is not.
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