Latest PSU headlines:

Page 1 of 2 1 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1
    Master Guru
    The Sith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    7,453
    Rep Power
    75
    Points
    13,393 (0 Banked)
    Items Naughty DogGuerrilla GamesNvidiaMaster ChiefPS3 SlimVita360 SlimLittle Big PlanetApple

    Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...one-developers


    Xbox One reserves 10 per cent of graphics resources for Kinect and apps functionality, Digital Foundry can confirm, with Microsoft planning to open up this additional GPU power for game development in the future. This, and further graphics and performance-based information was revealed during our lengthy discussions with two of the architects behind the Xbox One silicon.

    "Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode," Microsoft technical fellow Andrew Goossen told us.

    "The current reservation provides strong isolation between the title and the system and simplifies game development - strong isolation means that the system workloads, which are variable, won't perturb the performance of the game rendering. In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU reservation time while maintaining full system functionality."

    Once you get over the initial surprise that the background system takes up quite so much GPU time in the first place, the notion of being able to give developers access to this resource while not compromising functionality may sound rather like having your cake and eating it, but Microsoft points to particular aspects of the GPU hardware that make this scenario possible.

    "In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority. The GPU hardware scheduler is designed to maximise throughput and automatically fills 'holes' in the high-priority processing. This can allow the system rendering to make use of the ROPs for fill, for example, while the title is simultaneously doing synchronous compute operations on the compute units."

    Having attempted to comprehensively address questions about the ESRAM and system memory bandwidth of the architecture, the issue of the Xbox One's fill-rate and ROPs deficit compared to PlayStation 4 is now under the microscope. ROPs are the elements of the GPU that physically write the final image from pixel, vector and texel information: PlayStation 4's 32 ROPs are generally acknowledged as overkill for a 1080p resolution (the underlying architecture from AMD was never designed exclusively just for full HD but for other resolutions such as 2560x1400/2560x1600 too), while Xbox One's 16 ROPs could theoretically be overwhelmed by developers.

    In our interview, Microsoft revealed research it had carried out that suggested that the 6.6 per cent increase to GPU clock speed was more beneficial to the system than two additional AMD Radeon Graphics Core Next compute units. Our question was straightforward enough - were the results of these tests skewed by the code saturating the ROPs?

    "We've chosen to let title developers make the trade-off of resolution vs. per-pixel quality in whatever way is most appropriate to their game content. A lower resolution generally means that there can be more quality per pixel."

    PreviousNextView all
    1/22 The news that first-party exclusive Killer Instinct operates at a native resolution of 720p has surprised - and not impressed - a lot of gamers.
    "Yes, some parts of the frames may have been ROP-bound. However, in our more detailed analysis we've found that the portions of typical game content frames that are bound on ROP and not bound on bandwidth are generally quite small. The primary reason that the 6.6 per cent clock speed boost was a win over additional CUs was because it lifted all internal parts of the pipeline such as vertex rate, triangle rate, draw issue rate etc," Goossen explained.

    "The goal of a 'balanced' system is by definition not to be consistently bottlenecked on any one area. In general with a balanced system there should rarely be a single bottleneck over the course of any given frame - parts of the frame can be fill-rate bound, other can be ALU bound, others can be fetch bound, others can be memory bound, others can be wave occupancy bound, others can be draw-setup bound, others can be state change bound, etc. To complicate matters further, the GPU bottlenecks can change within the course of a single draw call!"

    Obviously though, it stands to reason that having more ROPs on call is the preferable scenario, even if they remain largely unused - and that's what PlayStation 4 offers. Microsoft's pitch is that its hardware set-up wouldn't necessarily be able to make use of them even if they were there.

    "The relationship between fill-rate and memory bandwidth is a good example of where balance is necessary. A high fill-rate won't help if the memory system can't sustain the bandwidth required to run at that fill-rate," said Goossen.

    "For example, consider a typical game scenario where the render target is 32bpp [bits per pixel] and blending is disabled, and the depth/stencil surface is 32bpp with Z [depth] enabled. That amount to 12 bytes of bandwidth needed per pixel drawn (eight bytes write, four bytes read). At our peak fill-rate of 13.65GPixels/s that adds up to 164GB/s of real bandwidth that is needed which pretty much saturates our ESRAM bandwidth. In this case, even if we had doubled the number of ROPs, the effective fill-rate would not have changed because we would be bottlenecked on bandwidth. In other words, we balanced our ROPs to our bandwidth for our target scenarios. Keep in mind that bandwidth is also needed for vertex and texture data as well, which in our case typically comes from DDR3."

    Our take on the ROPs situation is that while these figures make perfect sense, there are many other scenarios that could be potentially challenging - depth-only passes, shadows, alpha test and Z pre-pass for example. But from a user perspective, the fact is that native 1080p isn't supported on key first-party titles like Ryse and Killer Instinct. Assuming this isn't a pixel fill-rate issue as Microsoft suggests, surely at the very least, this impacts the balanced system argument?

    "In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU [system] reservation time while maintaining full system functionality."

    PreviousNextView all
    1/42 Forza Motorsport 5 is Xbox One's standout title, operating at full 1080p with a smooth 60fps update. As an embedded first party studio, Turn 10 would presumably have had more intimate access to the new hardware at an earlier stage than other developers.
    "We've chosen to let title developers make the trade-off of resolution vs. per-pixel quality in whatever way is most appropriate to their game content. A lower resolution generally means that there can be more quality per pixel. With a high quality scaler and anti-aliasing and render resolutions such as 720p or '900p', some games look better with more GPU processing going to each pixel than to the number of pixels; others look better at 1080p with less GPU processing per pixel," replied Goossen.

    "We built Xbox One with a higher quality scaler than on Xbox 360, and added an additional display plane, to provide more freedom to developers in this area. This matter of choice was a lesson we learned from Xbox 360 where at launch we had a Technical Certification Requirement mandate that all titles had to be 720p or better with at least 2x anti-aliasing - and we later ended up eliminating that TCR as we found it was ultimately better to allow developers to make the resolution decision themselves. Game developers are naturally incented to make the highest quality visuals possible and so will choose the most appropriate trade-off between quality of each pixel vs. number of pixels for their games."

    A well-placed insider with an established background in AAA multi-platform experience, currently working with next-gen hardware, was rather more pragmatic in his assessment of the 1080p situation.

    "We will probably see a lot of sub-1080p games (with hardware upscale), but this is probably because there is not enough time to learn the GPU when the development environment, and sometimes clock speeds, are changing underneath you," our source said, referring to the Xbox One's evolving "mono driver" and last-minute hardware tweaks.

    "If a studio releases a sub-1080p game then is it because they can't make it run at 1080p? Is it because they don't possess the skills or experience in-house? Or is it a design choice to make their game run at a stable frame-rate for launch?"

    We'll be publishing the entirety of our interview with the Xbox One architects this weekend, covering off topics including the Xbox 360 post-mortem, Microsoft's approach to GPU compute, the innovative approach to virtualisation, the choice of CPU architecture and much, much more. Over 7,500 words in total, and essential reading for anyone interested in the technological make-up of Microsoft's next-generation console.
    Last edited by The Sith; 10-02-2013 at 15:10.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

  2. #2
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    23
    Posts
    15,948
    Rep Power
    143
    Points
    105,482 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    This is clever spin, but the reality is that the 1.3TF GPU only has somewhere around 1.7TF 'accessible' to game devs. So basically, they're saying that eventually, game developers will get closer to the 'full figure' once MS cuts down the OS reserve.

    I initially was under the impression that the PS4 would have a similar reserve, but after careful study I am unsure that this claim holds any water given a lack of any 'snap' feature set\Kinect or some such. People in the know have more or less laid this flat.

    Which is weird, given that I was under the distinct impression that the 360 and PS3 had a GPU reservation in place.. But it could be a simple misunderstanding on my part. Not all 'reserves' are created equal, and it seems like the Xbox One's is fairly... Beefy.


    Last edited by Vulgotha; 10-02-2013 at 15:56.


  3. Likes Bruce Vayne likes this post
  4. #3
    Master Guru
    The Sith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    7,453
    Rep Power
    75
    Points
    13,393 (0 Banked)
    Items Naughty DogGuerrilla GamesNvidiaMaster ChiefPS3 SlimVita360 SlimLittle Big PlanetApple
    Their is more to this than a 10% gpu reserve. Anandtech.com has said the x1 gpu is a mono stereo design.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

  5. #4
    Ultimate Veteran
    mickice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Australia, In a Kangaroo's pouch.
    Age
    27
    Posts
    21,878
    Rep Power
    128
    Points
    20,546 (40,000 Banked)
    Items PlayStationPS3 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Specs are meaning less, but every chance Microsoft gets they try and up them.

    - Symmetrical thumb sticks for life -

  6. #5
    Superior Member
    Peregrin8X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    orange county
    Posts
    529
    Rep Power
    16
    Points
    11,134 (0 Banked)
    just more pr fluff as usual

    if anything it further solidifies that X1 is clearly not ready for takeoff.

    they should delay till next year and get things sorted out.

  7. #6
    Dedicated Member
    Sajuuk Khar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    26
    Posts
    1,376
    Rep Power
    72
    Points
    8,418 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Their is more to this than a 10% gpu reserve. Anandtech.com has said the x1 gpu is a mono stereo design.
    Sith, just put the freaking pipe down :P. When searching mono stereo design and anandtech, your post on this forum comes up first. Would you care to elaborate on what you are talking about?

    Are your referring to this juicy number?

    http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/wo...gpu.453393855/

  8. #7
    PSU Live Streamer
    YoungMullah88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Charlotte
    PSN ID
    xShadow__WoIf | YoungMullah88
    Posts
    14,227
    Rep Power
    111
    Points
    30,783 (1,800 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Lol misterxmedia LAWD the brainwash from that guy

    I thought it was mynd that said the Kinect had its own chip? Didn't need main system resource

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

  9. #8
    Power Member
    keefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Sock Gap
    Posts
    17,367
    Rep Power
    124
    Points
    55,707 (0 Banked)
    Items Gran Turismo 5Michelle MarshDoomid SoftwareCommodore 64Metal Gear Solid
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    What is mono stereo?

    IS this new meme?

  10. #9
    Superior Member
    Peregrin8X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    orange county
    Posts
    529
    Rep Power
    16
    Points
    11,134 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    What is mono stereo?

    IS this new meme?
    perhaps the new "teh power of teh clouds" or "teh balance"

    always a new buzzword with this console

  11. #10
    Forum Guru
    Insanehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,685
    Rep Power
    65
    Points
    9,376 (0 Banked)
    To many out there 10% means nothing.

  12. #11
    Master Guru
    The Sith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    7,453
    Rep Power
    75
    Points
    13,393 (0 Banked)
    Items Naughty DogGuerrilla GamesNvidiaMaster ChiefPS3 SlimVita360 SlimLittle Big PlanetApple
    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Sith, just put the freaking pipe down :P. When searching mono stereo design and anandtech, your post on this forum comes up first. Would you care to elaborate on what you are talking about?

    Are your referring to this juicy number?

    http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/wo...gpu.453393855/
    Go to this site
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/u...cs-api-for-gcn
    In the comments section the author mentions x1 mono stereo.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

  13. #12
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    165
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    The more I hear MS trying to convince us of all this hidden power and wizard $#@! the more skeptical I become and the more desperate they sound.

  14. #13
    Elite Member
    D3seeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Severn, Maryland
    PSN ID
    D3seeker
    Posts
    1,807
    Rep Power
    53
    Points
    1,648 (20,000 Banked)
    Items PS3 Slim
    .................. Outside of spinteck, it seems the XBone may be an actual serious contender once MS gets their system fully sorted out, which doesn't seem destined to happen anytime soon after launch.

    Or could could just be spinteck


  15. #14
    Power Member
    keefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Sock Gap
    Posts
    17,367
    Rep Power
    124
    Points
    55,707 (0 Banked)
    Items Gran Turismo 5Michelle MarshDoomid SoftwareCommodore 64Metal Gear Solid
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Go to this site
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/u...cs-api-for-gcn
    In the comments section the author mentions x1 mono stereo.
    Bull$#@!.
    I used ctrl+F and searched for the authors name and then for mono and also mono stereo.

    bull$#@!.

  16. Likes mistercrow likes this post
  17. #15
    Dedicated Member
    victorijapoosp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,189
    Rep Power
    44
    Points
    12,524 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    You can't be serious with the 30 megabyte signature... ~ Staff

    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
    Great song, should have more views :'(

    SHIMAASAAAANIIII!!!!!
    http://i.imgur.com/bP50xuM.png

  18. Likes Demi_God likes this post
  19. #16
    Legend
    F34R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    South Carolina
    PSN ID
    F34RTEHR34PER
    Posts
    40,072
    Rep Power
    243
    Points
    142,969 (0 Banked)
    Items BullySteamGran Turismo 5LiverpoolAppleJoker (limited ICON)Naughty DogMaster ChiefAssassins Creed EzioGears of WarHeavy RainDiablo III
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sith View Post
    Go to this site
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/u...cs-api-for-gcn
    In the comments section the author mentions x1 mono stereo.
    No offense Sith, but "mono" only turned up monopolists, monopoly, monopolize, and monopolistic. "stereo" didn't show up at all. "X1" or "x1" only shows up as DX11, DX12, X1 (referring to Xbox One). "Ryan" and "Smith" only shows up in the by line.




  20. #17
    Elite Sage
    Two4DaMoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    12,299
    Rep Power
    110
    Points
    13,423 (75,576 Banked)
    Items Naughty DogPS3 SlimNaughty DogUser name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Not exactly the news I was expecting based off the thread title.
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 10-02-2013 at 23:12.
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be


  21. #18
    Ancient
    TGO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    purgatory
    Age
    32
    Posts
    10,501
    Rep Power
    99
    Points
    12,601 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Great so the PS4 is actually 56% more powerful but it will decrease to 50% nice.....

    And before I get jumped on remember that by raw specs Xbox One was 1.31tflops compared to 1.84tflops
    but it's actually 1.18tflops vs 1.84tflops available for games thanks to Kinect and Snap, oh boy oh boy.

    Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 4
    Last edited by TGO; 10-02-2013 at 22:39.

    "Xbox is about to become the next water cooler”

  22. Likes mistercrow likes this post
  23. #19
    Elite Sage
    Two4DaMoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    12,299
    Rep Power
    110
    Points
    13,423 (75,576 Banked)
    Items Naughty DogPS3 SlimNaughty DogUser name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!

    ^misterxmedia^

    http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/138183.html?page=5


    This is sith's source.
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be


  24. Likes mistercrow likes this post
  25. #20
    Ancient
    TGO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    purgatory
    Age
    32
    Posts
    10,501
    Rep Power
    99
    Points
    12,601 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post

    ^misterxmedia^

    http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/138183.html?page=5


    This is sith's source.


    Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 4

    "Xbox is about to become the next water cooler”

  26. #21
    Elite Sage
    Two4DaMoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    12,299
    Rep Power
    110
    Points
    13,423 (75,576 Banked)
    Items Naughty DogPS3 SlimNaughty DogUser name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    You have to be a $#@!ing fool to believe that bull$#@! in the link

    Main GPU is R9 280x based 3.2TF RAW+ DXcore GPU as guest APU for apps+ ESRAM+other for 4TF total
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be


  27. Likes mistercrow likes this post
  28. #22
    PSU Live Streamer
    YoungMullah88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Charlotte
    PSN ID
    xShadow__WoIf | YoungMullah88
    Posts
    14,227
    Rep Power
    111
    Points
    30,783 (1,800 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    You have to be a $#@!ing fool to believe that bull$#@! in the link

    Main GPU is R9 280x based 3.2TF RAW+ DXcore GPU as guest APU for apps+ ESRAM+other for 4TF total
    Smh

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

  29. #23
    Superior Member
    Peregrin8X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    orange county
    Posts
    529
    Rep Power
    16
    Points
    11,134 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post

    ^misterxmedia^

    http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/138183.html?page=5


    This is sith's source.
    lmao

  30. #24
    Dedicated Member
    John Willaford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Owings Mills, MD
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,031
    Rep Power
    18
    Points
    365,353 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    This is clever spin, but the reality is that the 1.3TF GPU only has somewhere around 1.7TF 'accessible' to game devs. So basically, they're saying that eventually, game developers will get closer to the 'full figure' once MS cuts down the OS reserve.

    I initially was under the impression that the PS4 would have a similar reserve, but after careful study I am unsure that this claim holds any water given a lack of any 'snap' feature set\Kinect or some such. People in the know have more or less laid this flat.

    Which is weird, given that I was under the distinct impression that the 360 and PS3 had a GPU reservation in place.. But it could be a simple misunderstanding on my part. Not all 'reserves' are created equal, and it seems like the Xbox One's is fairly... Beefy.


    You are safe my friend, but, many others here are being fed my BIG CROW STEW!!!
    For those who don't believe it, go read all of my posts in order chronologically.

    I think the last one mentioned ROP limits causing problems.

    So, with that 10% ontop of 50% slowerness (i'm inventing new word SLOWERNESS, add it to your computers encyclopedia bullhockey) and maybe some bandwidth issues.... does this bring the PS4 up to 55% faster on first gen titles?
    WHO wants to guess MS has a 5400rpm HDD in the thing too? Maybe even a green drive that can reach 4600rpm?

  31. #25
    Dedicated Member
    John Willaford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Owings Mills, MD
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,031
    Rep Power
    18
    Points
    365,353 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    You have to be a $#@!ing fool to believe that bull$#@! in the link

    Main GPU is R9 280x based 3.2TF RAW+ DXcore GPU as guest APU for apps+ ESRAM+other for 4TF total
    Thank you for buying the Brooklyn Bridge, Payment has been received. Remember not to let people cross it without collecting tolls, ENJOY!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

PSU

Playstation Universe

Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium without express written permission of Abstract Holdings International Ltd. prohibited.
Use of this site is governed by our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.

vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.