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  1. #1
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    Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview

    .....and they are still explaining that balance

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...-one-interview

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    Last edited by YoungMullah88; 10-05-2013 at 13:51.

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    It's a good read and very informative. The part I like is the fact that ESRAM while it's around that the peak is 204 but they said realistically it's around 150gb/s. Basically theoretically it's 204GB/s (in theory/theoretically) when realistically it's around 140-150GB/s. I knew it wasn't going to be at 204GB/s and it got even worse on some forums where people were saying it's up to 300GB/s. The ESRAM is what's responsible for the bandwidth being at 150GB/s otherwise it would have been much lower. I knew this was the case all along and I got fluff for it on a couple of forums. What can you do though... lol

    One thing I liked about this entire article was that the review did lightly bust some chops in the comparisons so it did do a little bit of rattling in that case. I could tell when reading it. Richard wasn't afraid to ask the questions and to do the comparisons infront of these people. I like that and I'm going to start reading more of his interviews in the future. I really enjoyed this read.

    It was a good read but I can certainly see how the Xbox One is getting a bunch of flak and it's rightfully deserved.

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    we need a summarizer + translator.

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    why? just read it. If you need help with certain things in the article just look it up.

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    Digital Foundry: So can you tell us how much power Xbox One takes from the wall, during gameplay for example?
    Microsoft PR: That's not a figure we're disclosing at this time.
    Very interesting. I think there are things we won't be finding out about xb1 till after launch. Those sly dogs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Very interesting. I think there are things we won't be finding out about xb1 till after launch. Those sly dogs.
    If previous Xbox's are anything to go by it will not be very efficient.
    After all MS is NOT a hardware company, just look at that nasty power brick.

    PS3 Super Slim uses close to 10w less than the 360 Slim while in the same game.
    Last edited by mickice; 10-05-2013 at 17:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    If previous Xbox's are anything to go by it will not be very efficient.
    After all MS is NOT a hardware company, just look at that nasty power brick.


    PS3 Super Slim uses close to 10w less than the 360 Slim while in the same game.
    A power brick on the outside doesn't mean it's not efficient. Not disclosing the power it uses is strange though. I think ms may be hiding something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    A power brick on the outside doesn't mean it's not efficient. Not disclosing the power it uses is strange though. I think ms may be hiding something.
    That can be good or bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    A power brick on the outside doesn't mean it's not efficient. Not disclosing the power it uses is strange though. I think ms may be hiding something.
    Lol goddamn yall always find something to lash unto!

    How someone can interpret that as ms having something hidden is beyond me, but carry on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    A power brick on the outside doesn't mean it's not efficient. Not disclosing the power it uses is strange though. I think ms may be hiding something.
    because it's just not the perfect time to throw down any trump cards.

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    What's the bet PS4 uses less power :P

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    Sometimes you want to get the GPU texture out of memory and on Xbox 360 that required what's called a "resolve pass" where you had to do a copy into DDR to get the texture out - that was another limitation we removed in ESRAM, as you can now texture out of ESRAM if you want to. From my perspective it's very much an evolution and improvement - a big improvement - over the design we had with the Xbox 360. I'm kind of surprised by all this, quite frankly.

    Digital Foundry: Obviously though, you are limited to just 32MB of ESRAM. Potentially you could be looking at say, four 1080p render targets, 32 bits per pixel, 32 bits of depth - that's 48MB straight away. So are you saying that you can effectively separate render targets so that some live in DDR3 and the crucial high-bandwidth ones reside in ESRAM?

    Andrew Goossen: Oh, absolutely. And you can even make it so that portions of your render target that have very little overdraw... For example, if you're doing a racing game and your sky has very little overdraw, you could stick those subsets of your resources into DDR to improve ESRAM utilisation. On the GPU we added some compressed render target formats like our 6e4 [six bit mantissa and four bits exponent per component] and 7e3 HDR float formats [where the 6e4 formats] that were very, very popular on Xbox 360, which instead of doing a 16-bit float per component 64pp render target, you can do the equivalent with us using 32 bits - so we did a lot of focus on really maximizing efficiency and utilisation of that ESRAM.

    Digital Foundry: And you have CPU read access to the ESRAM, right? This wasn't available on Xbox 360 eDRAM.

    Nick Baker: We do but it's very slow.


    So, everything I said about even if you load fractional textures procedural textures and some instances where you will have high terrain changeover can flood the 32MB ESRAM. They are talking about energy efficiency and power regulation. And, again, ITS NOT ALWAYS A RENDER TARGET. You need faster memory access to texture faster constructing frames as fast as possible requires BANDWIDTH.
    And, like i thought again, it has CPU read access but very slow, so, it's essentially a GPU cache...
    If I were a developer, I might get frustrated always having to load my needed texture fractions / tiles into the ESRAM for faster access. Instances could come up where it's just too little room, though, it sounds like they will just compress, but, that degrades texture quality versus raw open bandwidth and more open memory.

    They will learn to optimize and prioritize, but, we come back to simple truths, and programmers love simple truths:

    SIMPLICITY IS K.I.S.S.
    Keep It Simple Stupid! Now,before someone feels butthurt, it's a common saying. That's the mantra of all programming. Now, programming gets complicated, but, confusion violates KISS, not complication.
    This complication is for the sake of power efficiency etc, and that's Microsoft's vision. SONY's platform has less NON SIMPLICITY for the sake of expressing it clearly. Programmers are going to prefer the PS4 for these reasons.
    However, they used 1.8 BILLION transistors on the 6T (6 transistors per bit) ESRAM, where SONY spent that die/chip room on more CU's (Or ALUs as MS is trying to complicate the picture by calling them, lol).
    More CU's give you a linear processing advantage in all 3D performance marks, from polygon to texture and the whole mess. So, the system is inherently less powerful and no efficiency will make up for that.
    MS's vision is about the living room and tv control and selling adds for you to view your TV already while the NFL is on, or something... all kind of confusing.... most of my NFL and sports enthused friends have said they won't be shrinking the game from their 55in tv during the game to watch anyone's ads... so, good luck with the vision guys and gals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Sometimes you want to get the GPU texture out of memory and on Xbox 360 that required what's called a "resolve pass" where you had to do a copy into DDR to get the texture out - that was another limitation we removed in ESRAM, as you can now texture out of ESRAM if you want to. From my perspective it's very much an evolution and improvement - a big improvement - over the design we had with the Xbox 360. I'm kind of surprised by all this, quite frankly.

    Digital Foundry: Obviously though, you are limited to just 32MB of ESRAM. Potentially you could be looking at say, four 1080p render targets, 32 bits per pixel, 32 bits of depth - that's 48MB straight away. So are you saying that you can effectively separate render targets so that some live in DDR3 and the crucial high-bandwidth ones reside in ESRAM?

    Andrew Goossen: Oh, absolutely. And you can even make it so that portions of your render target that have very little overdraw... For example, if you're doing a racing game and your sky has very little overdraw, you could stick those subsets of your resources into DDR to improve ESRAM utilisation. On the GPU we added some compressed render target formats like our 6e4 [six bit mantissa and four bits exponent per component] and 7e3 HDR float formats [where the 6e4 formats] that were very, very popular on Xbox 360, which instead of doing a 16-bit float per component 64pp render target, you can do the equivalent with us using 32 bits - so we did a lot of focus on really maximizing efficiency and utilisation of that ESRAM.

    Digital Foundry: And you have CPU read access to the ESRAM, right? This wasn't available on Xbox 360 eDRAM.

    Nick Baker: We do but it's very slow.


    So, everything I said about even if you load fractional textures procedural textures and some instances where you will have high terrain changeover can flood the 32MB ESRAM. They are talking about energy efficiency and power regulation. And, again, ITS NOT ALWAYS A RENDER TARGET. You need faster memory access to texture faster constructing frames as fast as possible requires BANDWIDTH.
    And, like i thought again, it has CPU read access but very slow, so, it's essentially a GPU cache...
    If I were a developer, I might get frustrated always having to load my needed texture fractions / tiles into the ESRAM for faster access. Instances could come up where it's just too little room, though, it sounds like they will just compress, but, that degrades texture quality versus raw open bandwidth and more open memory.

    They will learn to optimize and prioritize, but, we come back to simple truths, and programmers love simple truths:

    SIMPLICITY IS K.I.S.S.
    Keep It Simple Stupid! Now,before someone feels butthurt, it's a common saying. That's the mantra of all programming. Now, programming gets complicated, but, confusion violates KISS, not complication.
    This complication is for the sake of power efficiency etc, and that's Microsoft's vision. SONY's platform has less NON SIMPLICITY for the sake of expressing it clearly. Programmers are going to prefer the PS4 for these reasons.
    However, they used 1.8 BILLION transistors on the 6T (6 transistors per bit) ESRAM, where SONY spent that die/chip room on more CU's (Or ALUs as MS is trying to complicate the picture by calling them, lol).
    More CU's give you a linear processing advantage in all 3D performance marks, from polygon to texture and the whole mess. So, the system is inherently less powerful and no efficiency will make up for that.
    MS's vision is about the living room and tv control and selling adds for you to view your TV already while the NFL is on, or something... all kind of confusing.... most of my NFL and sports enthused friends have said they won't be shrinking the game from their 55in tv during the game to watch anyone's ads... so, good luck with the vision guys and gals.
    Do you guys ever get tired of acting like you know this hardware better than the tech teams who put it all together..lol


    And I guess because your friends have their view that settles everything right?

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    such a well balanced system, great that i'll be able to run a game and have a walk-through running alongside it, no need to have my laptop running at the same time now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    such a well balanced system, great that i'll be able to run a game and have a walk-through running alongside it, no need to have my laptop running at the same time now.
    It seems that way. We can only judge by what we see in the games. So far it looks like the xbox-one very capable. I'm excited for this november.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It seems that way. We can only judge by what we see in the games. So far it looks like the xbox-one very capable. I'm excited for this november.
    well i'm very impressed with the games i've seen on Xbox so far, but more so impressed with how they have the games running along side the ability to do other things at the same time without having to quit said games. i.e. the walk-through and game at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It seems that way. We can only judge by what we see in the games. So far it looks like the xbox-one very capable. I'm excited for this november.
    This interview is old was done the week after xbox one production had started. The NDA was still in place so they couldn't reveal much. The new 12CUs are interesting.

    uuummmmm...Fried Beer iis a reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    well i'm very impressed with the games i've seen on Xbox so far, but more so impressed with how they have the games running along side the ability to do other things at the same time without having to quit said games. i.e. the walk-through and game at the same time.
    Yea, that's definitely one of the reasons I'm buying xb1 first. I love the features it offers. That particular one you described is gonna come in handy.

    =The Sith;6215960]This interview is old was done the week after xbox one production had started. The NDA was still in place so they couldn't reveal much. The new 12CUs are interesting.
    Yea, it's all very interesting. It's like they are holding back on certain things on purpose.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-05-2013 at 20:47.

  22. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    What's the bet PS4 uses less power :P
    ps4 is between 180-190watts

    edit: No amount of balance is going to make it stronger or closer to the ps4. Xbone diehards just need to accept that fact.
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 10-05-2013 at 20:54.


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    I just use my tablet or Phone to play and do a walkthrough at the same time. Been working great since last generation! Also, should I even care what the power consumption is of the console from the wall? I'm failing to see how this has any bearing on the overall fidelity of the console itself.
    "Bigfoot is blurry, that is the problem...it is not the photographers fault...Bigfoot is blurry and that is extra scary to me because there is an extra large out-of-focus creature roaming the countryside....Run he's fuzzy, get out of here" ~ Mitch Hedburg, RIP you crazy fool

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    ps4 is between 180-190watts

    edit: No amount of balance is going to make it stronger or closer to the ps4. Xbone diehards just need to accept that fact.
    That's the beauty of being someone like me... don't give a fudge about which one is better. I care about the games and features each one brings because I'll have them both. I just want first party titles, and then the third party stuff... I'll have the option to get the third party on whichever console I want. I couldn't function as a gamer if I was stuck on a brand. Like if I only liked the Xbox brand, and always had negative things to say about the Playstation brand; and vice verse.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's the beauty of being someone like me... don't give a fudge about which one is better. I care about the games and features each one brings because I'll have them both. I just want first party titles, and then the third party stuff... I'll have the option to get the third party on whichever console I want. I couldn't function as a gamer if I was stuck on a brand. Like if I only liked the Xbox brand, and always had negative things to say about the Playstation brand; and vice verse.
    well then you're going to love it here

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's the beauty of being someone like me... don't give a fudge about which one is better. I care about the games and features each one brings because I'll have them both. I just want first party titles, and then the third party stuff... I'll have the option to get the third party on whichever console I want. I couldn't function as a gamer if I was stuck on a brand. Like if I only liked the Xbox brand, and always had negative things to say about the Playstation brand; and vice verse.
    makes sense to me. Enjoy the best of both worlds and let the cheerleaders have the brand fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    makes sense to me. Enjoy the best of both worlds and let the cheerleaders have the brand fight.
    wouldn't that cause a paradox?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    well then you're going to love it here
    Oh I know it's not going to be any different since I joined almost six years ago.




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