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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    but that's not what i'm saying. what i'm saying is, can the PS4 not update in the background? are you saying that the XMB will be interfering with the games?
    No I'm saying if you want to update the firmware you'll be upgrading everything at once.
    And yes the XMB absolutely will be interfering with games.
    Have you seen snap like features on the PS4?
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  2. #77
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    GDDR5 is a mature and relatively low latency product now, it's not unreleased unproven voodoo tech... it's well known and mature.
    The only way it's uncomfortable to MS is they didn't use it and want to say it's a power hog. Okay, you do your thing, i'll take raw pure power across the board. The PS4 isn't in my hip pocket and I don't need it to sip battery power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    GDDR5 is a mature and relatively low latency product now, it's not unreleased unproven voodoo tech... it's well known and mature.
    The only way it's uncomfortable to MS is they didn't use it and want to say it's a power hog. Okay, you do your thing, i'll take raw pure power across the board. The PS4 isn't in my hip pocket and I don't need it to sip battery power.
    I'm sure it crossed their mind as an option, it's not like it would have been a new idea to them, the Xbox 360 was all GDDR3.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    No I'm saying if you want to update the firmware you'll be upgrading everything at once.
    you'll have to be more clear here. are you saying that if you update the PS4, everything will need to be updated all at once? whereas X1 doesn't need that? or are you saying that X1 has the ability to update everything at once without interruptions. I'm not sure what you mean here.
    And yes the XMB absolutely will be interfering with games.
    Have you seen snap like features on the PS4?
    so they went with DDR3 for the snap feature?

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm sure it crossed their mind as an option, it's not like it would have been a new idea to them, the Xbox 360 was all GDDR3.
    but it wouldn't be as cheap as DDR3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm sure it crossed their mind as an option, it's not like it would have been a new idea to them, the Xbox 360 was all GDDR3.
    The idea that something is 'uncomfortable' is their way of NOT talking down the PS4 while using a poor man's Neuro Linguistic Programming to try affect a sense that there is a flaw or danger in how SONY is approaching their machine. I say it is a Poor Man's or Marketing Man's version as they usually don't understand NLP and most have discredited it anyway, but, again, marketing people also jump on ideas they don't understand in an attempt to sell people a bill of goods!!!! I'll count up the number of ands and buts and see what words I remember etc , lol. Basically, it's MS's normal FUD campaign.
    Last edited by John Willaford; 10-08-2013 at 05:09.

  6. #81
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    Yeah, I don't know who hired Penello to be the guy to explain technical things.

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    More BS

    The Sith loves to post nothing but pro MS junk.Funny thing is its not coming from a 3rd party.First party Sony developers said Cell was a dream come true yet 3rd party developers hated it.When I see a 3rd party developers come out and say Xone is a pleasure to work with then I will keep quite.

    Esram is a like closing up a gunshot wound with a bandaid.Sony was going to roll with a 4 gig console, but luck had it that 8 gigs was a reality.Sufi,you and Sith should get a room because both of you are in the same small boat.Sony built a gaming console first,MS built a multimedia device first gaming second and third.Also this isn't Ps3 vs 360,those systems were pretty different,though Ps3 had the best looking games of the gen.Ps4 has a huge bandwidth RoP, texture unit's Ace,Tflop 1 gig more of available ram, also a nice rumor that the Ps4 Os takes up just 1 core,and the Cpu has an extra 10gbs of bandwidth over the Xbone CPU. advantage and over time it will show.3rd party developers are all over Ps4 because its easy to use

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riseer View Post
    The Sith loves to post nothing but pro MS junk.Funny thing is its not coming from a 3rd party.First party Sony developers said Cell was a dream come true yet 3rd party developers hated it.When I see a 3rd party developers come out and say Xone is a pleasure to work with then I will keep quite.

    Esram is a like closing up a gunshot wound with a bandaid.Sony was going to roll with a 4 gig console, but luck had it that 8 gigs was a reality.Sufi,you and Sith should get a room because both of you are in the same small boat.Sony built a gaming console first,MS built a multimedia device first gaming second and third.Also this isn't Ps3 vs 360,those systems were pretty different,though Ps3 had the best looking games of the gen.Ps4 has a huge bandwidth RoP, texture unit's Ace,Tflop 1 gig more of available ram, also a nice rumor that the Ps4 Os takes up just 1 core,and the Cpu has an extra 10gbs of bandwidth over the Xbone CPU. advantage and over time it will show.3rd party developers are all over Ps4 because its easy to use
    did you actually read my posts in this thread?

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    Sony was going to go with a similar setup as the Xbone.Just they figured that eDRAM would hinder developers.Their were times where the eDRAM in the 360 was not used because it could not use a 720p frame buffer and use the 4x MSAA.Sony just cut out the bottleneck that is a 32mb scratch pad eSRAM.MS has jazzed it up, and I expect developers to get some fair results.I am a Sony guy but I want Xbone to work very good because I don't want to see Ps4 being held back.

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    Pardon me

  11. #86
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    I am tired ''Just got off work'' sorry about that.

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    Yea GDDR5 has came a long ways,to the point it won't really effect Sony's setup.GDDR5 uses more power, but it's cooler then DDR3.Which is another reason why Ps4 is a smaller design and the fact that Sony kept a simpler APU setup.

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    This link is helpful as it provides some actual latency numbers to compare between DDR3 and GDDR5

    http://www.redgamingtech.com/ps4-vs-...-ddr3-latency/

    It goes into some info about how the CPUs from AMD are actually being designed to be less latency dependent (which makes sense if they are looking to go the GDDR5 route on there APU systems down the line) which could off load some of the described issues with GDDR. But then they also go into the actual timings of DDR3 vs GDDR5 and the numbers certainly don't look as disastrous or uncomfortable as its being made to sound.


    Also shows performances comparisons between the same GPU using DDR3 or GDDR5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riseer View Post
    Yea GDDR5 has came a long ways,to the point it won't really effect Sony's setup.GDDR5 uses more power, but it's cooler then DDR3.Which is another reason why Ps4 is a smaller design and the fact that Sony kept a simpler APU setup.
    lol 4 posts in a row?

    mods aint gonna like that

    also, what i find funny is the peeps who think MS won't allow Ps4 versions of 3rd party titles to look and perform in a superior manner.

    3rd party publishers/devs, will do as they please
    Last edited by Peregrin8X; 10-08-2013 at 05:33.

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    Yea whoops...i will keep it down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    This link is helpful as it provides some actual latency numbers to compare between DDR3 and GDDR5

    http://www.redgamingtech.com/ps4-vs-...-ddr3-latency/

    It goes into some info about how the CPUs from AMD are actually being designed to be less latency dependent (which makes sense if they are looking to go the GDDR5 route on there APU systems down the line) which could off load some of the described issues with GDDR. But then they also go into the actual timings of DDR3 vs GDDR5 and the numbers certainly don't look as disastrous or uncomfortable as its being made to sound.


    Also shows performances comparisons between the same GPU using DDR3 or GDDR5.
    I've been saying that about GDDR5 with and without citations for a while now. Exactly... It's a good thing.
    AMD CPU's have ALWAYS been Bandwidth dependent and Latency resistant, while Intel is the opposite.
    Now people are reading and researching these statements...
    I don't mind being verified! lol.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    This link is helpful as it provides some actual latency numbers to compare between DDR3 and GDDR5 http://www.redgamingtech.com/ps4-vs-...-ddr3-latency/ It goes into some info about how the CPUs from AMD are actually being designed to be less latency dependent (which makes sense if they are looking to go the GDDR5 route on there APU systems down the line) which could off load some of the described issues with GDDR. But then they also go into the actual timings of DDR3 vs GDDR5 and the numbers certainly don't look as disastrous or uncomfortable as its being made to sound. Also shows performances comparisons between the same GPU using DDR3 or GDDR5.
    Good info. Pretty well debunks that bit of FUD.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    lol 4 posts in a row?

    mods aint gonna like that

    also, what i find funny is the peeps who think MS won't allow Ps4 versions of 3rd party titles to look and perform in a superior manner.

    3rd party publishers/devs, will do as they please
    he's not all wrong either. the X1 will still affect game design.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    I've been saying that about GDDR5 with and without citations for a while now. Exactly... It's a good thing.
    AMD CPU's have ALWAYS been Bandwidth dependent and Latency resistant, while Intel is the opposite.
    Now people are reading and researching these statements...
    I don't mind being verified! lol.
    from the link i posted...

    "...I’ll save you the trouble and say that it’s between 10 – 12 for both DDR3 and GDDR5 varying heavily on the clock speed of either the DDR3 or GDDR5 AND in the timings they’ve chosen..."

    With that 10 or 12 being nanosec response time, I think. IF that is the case, then at worst DDR3 is 9 or 10 ns response time and GDDR5 is 12 or 13.
    Last edited by Sajuuk Khar; 10-08-2013 at 05:41.

  20. #95
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    MS has more money then god certain games like COD/BF anything that falls in the timed exclusive banner.I don't see MS throwing a money hat at every 3rd party developer just games that sell a lot on their console.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riseer View Post
    MS has more money then god
    No they don't. Actually Sony has more money in assets as of today and they both make about the same money in revenues.
    certain games like COD/BF anything that falls in the timed exclusive banner.I don't see MS throwing a money hat at every 3rd party developer just games that sell a lot on their console.
    If you mean exclusive deals then yes I agree with you, if you mean some other sort of conspiracy stuff then no, the gaming division doesn't have the funds necessary to pull this off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    No I'm saying if you want to update the firmware you'll be upgrading everything at once.
    And yes the XMB absolutely will be interfering with games.
    Have you seen snap like features on the PS4?
    Background OS operations are handled by the ARM processor in PS4, as well as a core or two reserved in the APU. So it shouldn't be interfering when using the XMB. Unless you have a source aside from "because i said so", how can you maintain that position?
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 10-08-2013 at 06:40.
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    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    No they don't. Actually Sony has more money in assets as of today and they both make about the same money in revenues. If you mean exclusive deals then yes I agree with you, if you mean some other sort of conspiracy stuff then no, the gaming division doesn't have the funds necessary to pull this off.
    Wut?

    Income:
    Sony FY - 323 million
    Microsoft FY -26 billion.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    Background OS operations are handled by the ARM processor in PS4. So it shouldn't be interfering. Unless you have a source aside from "because i said so", how can you maintain that position?
    So your saying the ARM processor does the XMB? I don't think so.
    We all know it does the background downloading, but we weren't talking about that.

    There's also another custom chip to put the system in a low-power mode for background downloads. "To make it a more green hardware, which is very important for us, we have the ability to turn off the main power in the system and just have power to that secondary custom chip, system memory, and I/O -- hard drive, Ethernet. So that allows background downloads to happen in a very low power scenario.
    Nothing on there about doing O/S XMB tasks.
    Last edited by mynd; 10-08-2013 at 06:45.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    So your saying the ARM processor does the XMB? I don't think so.
    We all know it does the background downloading, but we weren't talking about that.
    I edited my post before your response. Note i talk of background operations like sufi asked about, you talk of XMB.

    So i edited mine to include that. Read it again. And the "I don't think so" is meaningless. Because it's more hot air from you. Provide your sources for which processors do what because you keep stating things, but never have proof.
    You can't be serious with the 30 megabyte signature... ~ Staff

    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
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