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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    But it applies to MS, you know how the PS3 couldn't do cross party voice chat, well with this, you just make it happen, if it uses more memory so be it, devs that develop the next game knwo the space isn't there, but at the same time it doesn't break older games, because they load up the older version of the game o/s.

    It gives the the flexibility to add features in the future without really having to worry about destroying current games.
    The xbone still reserves 3GB of RAM. I don't see how this is anything useful other than pr when devs can't touch the 3GB.


  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    The xbone still reserves 3GB of RAM. I don't see how this is anything useful other than pr when devs can't touch the 3GB.
    That's because that 3gb is on a completely different operating system. They dont want to touch it, it has nothing to do with what they are doing.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    But it applies to MS, you know how the PS3 couldn't do cross party voice chat, well with this, you just make it happen, if it uses more memory so be it, devs that develop the next game knwo the space isn't there, but at the same time it doesn't break older games, because they load up the older version of the game o/s.

    It gives the the flexibility to add features in the future without really having to worry about destroying current games.
    think about it this way, all of the features we could ever want, are already there to begin with. after that, they are only going to make them better and maybe add a few more features. you're really looking at overkill with this feature, that seems like it would be more of a temporary solution rather than a permanent one.

    why they can't really push big features with this is because it would need to be loaded up each time you turn off your console and play the game. you're talking about some sort of a virtual update to the OS.

    other than something very specific for a very specific game, i don't see this being as useful as introducing a more persistent feature. the OS is going to go down in size, i really don't think we're missing out anything big that we couldn't live without for the rest of this generation.

    really the only thing i can think of is X-game group chat a la teamspeak. and they'll have plenty of RAM to put that in eventually if it's requested enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    That's because that 3gb is on a completely different operating system. They dont want to touch it, it has nothing to do with what they are doing.
    where are you getting this info? 3GB is supposedly used by all three OSs in X1.

  4. #129
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    Lol they still going at it? I guess they're out of ideas trying to convince GDDR5 is not better than DDR3, they should know better and just be happy with what they've got.


  5. #130
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    Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidt

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    think about it this way, all of the features we could ever want, are already there to begin with. after that, they are only going to make them better and maybe add a few more features. you're really looking at overkill with this feature, that seems like it would be more of a temporary solution rather than a permanent one.
    You really believe that, all of the features we want are there from the get go?
    why they can't really push big features with this is because it would need to be loaded up each time you turn off your console and play the game. you're talking about some sort of a virtual update to the OS.
    how big do you really think drivers are? We are talking about directx libraries only.
    other than something very specific for a very specific game, i don't see this being as useful as introducing a more persistent feature. the OS is going to go down in size, i really don't think we're missing out anything big that we couldn't live without for the rest of this generation.
    We dont know whats in the future. For example ms had to integrate kinect, smart glass etc etc all in to the previous game system without breaking the libraries for current games.
    really the only thing i can think of is X-game group chat a la teamspeak. and they'll have plenty of RAM to put that in eventually if it's requested enough.
    Its not necessarily about memory space. It can be about the way the system works overall. What if down the track, they figure some way of better utilising say the esram, but cant do it without breaking current games?

    where are you getting this info? 3GB is supposedly used by all three OSs in X1.
    Im basing it on the kotaku article the 10% figure was based on the dash reservations, we have to assume the other figures they had are also to do with the dash (2- cores, 3gb).
    Im assuming this is the o/s split for the hyper-v
    3/5 (give or take a few mbs for the hyper v).




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    Last edited by mynd; 10-09-2013 at 07:43.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You really believe that, all of the features we want are there from the get go?
    what else could you possibly want as a gamer?
    how big do you really think drivers are? We are talking about directx libraries only.
    so why are you talking about the entire OS? if it only pertains to the directx libraries?
    We dont know whats in the future. For example ms had to integrate kinect, smart glass etc etc all in to the previous game system without breaking the libraries for current games.
    i'm not sure how the 360's OS relates to the X1's.
    Its not necessarily about memory space. It can be about the way the system works overall. What if down the track, they figure some way of better utilising say the esram, but cant do it without breaking current games?
    unless you're going to change the actual hardware, i don't see why they'd need to do this. the hardware isn't going to change.
    Im basing it on the kotaku article the 10% figure was based on the dash reservations, we have to assume the other figures they had are also to do with the dash (2- cores, 3gb).
    Im assuming this is the o/s split for the hyper-v
    3/5 (give or take a few mbs for the hyper v).

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    ok.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    what else could you possibly want as a gamer?
    so why are you talking about the entire OS? if it only pertains to the directx libraries?
    Because that's all there is that resides in the game o/s?
    I'm not sure how the 360's OS relates to the X1's.
    Im just saying, things change over time, I'm sure they never envisaged Smart glass, or Kinect when the built the Xbox360.
    unless you're going to change the actual hardware, i don't see why they'd need to do this. the hardware isn't going to change.
    DirectX 9c games don't run on Directx9, even if the hardware is identical.
    ok.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Because that's all there is that resides in the game o/s?

    Im just saying, things change over time, I'm sure they never envisaged Smart glass, or Kinect when the built the Xbox360.

    DirectX 9c games don't run on Directx9, even if the hardware is identical.
    IF the drivers and what not are so small then, why would they have to worry about BC when they either just add to the functionality or have multiple version ready to go. While the 9 to 9c might be an issue, you then also have DX 11 cards running much older games with no real issue as well...Wait giving that more thought, if your talking about DX9 not being able to run or use functions which are exclusively 9c, well of course it wont. OR if your talking about hardware instead, another durrr moment. The hardware has no chance of having to deal with future upgrades so it doesn't have to worry about running what ever new processes come out in the future, because it just won't be able to. Same for the PS4. Anything new will have to be attempted in software.

    Im not sure this is as huge benefit to the developers as it is simply to MS, as it allows them to do what ever the hell they want on their OS's with out messing with the game environments. Also the likely hood of MS allowing customised versions of the drivers for different games to be allowed to run with out MS permission would be rather slim, which means they would need to be validated. Surely it would just be easier for MS to work on the drivers and if they come up with new methods, just add to the existing with small updates or just include them when ever they do big overhauls of the main OS systems.

  9. #134
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    Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidt

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    IF the drivers and what not are so small then, why would they have to worry about BC when they either just add to the functionality or have multiple version ready to go. While the 9 to 9c might be an issue, you then also have DX 11 cards running much older games with no real issue as well...Wait giving that more thought, if your talking about DX9 not being able to run or use functions which are exclusively 9c, well of course it wont. OR if your talking about hardware instead, another durrr moment. The hardware has no chance of having to deal with future upgrades so it doesn't have to worry about running what ever new processes come out in the future, because it just won't be able to. Same for the PS4. Anything new will have to be attempted in software.

    Im not sure this is as huge benefit to the developers as it is simply to MS, as it allows them to do what ever the hell they want on their OS's with out messing with the game environments. Also the likely hood of MS allowing customised versions of the drivers for different games to be allowed to run with out MS permission would be rather slim, which means they would need to be validated. Surely it would just be easier for MS to work on the drivers and if they come up with new methods, just add to the existing with small updates or just include them when ever they do big overhauls of the main OS systems.
    All of that is true except, if they hadn't gone virtual an over haul may break older games. Now they have decoupled the dash os from the game os and even the games os versions from each other. Updating the dash will never effect any game and vica versa.

    The only real advantage to a dev is knowing that if they find some new trick or have a request ( I dunno, maybe they wanted say to dump the kinect image into the framebuffer), and ms currently didn't expose that feature, they know they could easily implement it.

    Thats not to say this is stuff limited to MS, but it certainly going to make easier fir their boffins to implement stuff. There is nothing stopping Sony adding features, just a bit trickier.



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    Last edited by mynd; 10-09-2013 at 09:34.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    All of that is true except, if they hadn't gone virtual an over haul may break older games. Now they have decoupled the dash os from the game os and even the games os versions from each other. Updating the dash will never effect any game and vica versa.

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    Oh yeah I totally get how useful it is having all the OS's sectioned off from one another.

    Thinking now it is a bit funny that this is actually a really good move by MS, but its something that just can not be advertised or jumped on by marketing :P


    But with Sony, we can't really say what they are doing or how easy it would be for them to implement new features, they just haven't put the information out there...For all we know they could have a similar hypervisor system which could go on to explain why so much of the 8GB was sectioned off.

  11. #136
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    Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidt

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Oh yeah I totally get how useful it is having all the OS's sectioned off from one another.

    Thinking now it is a bit funny that this is actually a really good move by MS, but its something that just can not be advertised or jumped on by marketing :P


    But with Sony, we can't really say what they are doing or how easy it would be for them to implement new features, they just haven't put the information out there...For all we know they could have a similar hypervisor system which could go on to explain why so much of the 8GB was sectioned off.
    Yeah and even if Sony haven't, they may implement it at a later date. As long as they keep the games os stuff available for older titles it wont be a big issue:
    And yeah its not really a marketable thing, like gamers give a dam about how easy it it is for MS to implement something


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