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    Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidt

    http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-one-dev-g...h-at-low-power


    Sony have been praised by several developers for their decision to include of 8GB of GDDR5 RAM in their upcoming next generation console, the PlayStation 4. The faster memory apparently gives more budget to developers to render out high resolution textures and free up other resources. Microsoft opted for 8GB DDR3 RAM for the Xbox One but the according to them the on board ESRAM will provide the right balance of bandwidth and power.
    According to Nick Baker, who looks after the Xbox One’s architecture team believes that GDDR5 is uncomfortable to work with and ESRAM gives the Xbox One the right balance for bandwidth and power consumption.
    “In terms of getting the best possible combination of performance, memory size, power, the GDDR5 takes you into a little bit of an uncomfortable place. Having ESRAM costs very little power and has the opportunity to give you very high bandwidth. You can reduce the bandwidth on external memory – that saves a lot of power consumption as well and the commodity memory is cheaper as well so you can afford more. That’s really a driving force behind that. You’re right, if you want a high memory capacity, relatively low power and a lot of bandwidth there are not too many ways of solving that.” he said in an interview with EuroGamer.
    However, back in July, the lead architect on the PS4 Mark Cerny defended Sony’s move to include GDDR5 in the PS4 by stating that the latency in GDDR5 isn’t particularly higher than the latency in DDR3. Microsoft have continuously emphasized that they are targeting for ‘balance’ in Xbox One and ESRAM is simply an evolution of the eDRAM found in the Xbox 360 and as such developers will be able to harness the power of Xbox One more efficiently. Ultimately, for the core gamer, the games will matter and both systems will have enough of those at launch. But just like the current generation, it will take a year or two before we start seeing what these expensive toys are clearly capable of.

    The DDR3 is not your standard ram it is handled by a company called Micron Technology that is responsible for developing the HMC (Hybrid Memory Cube).is doing the DDR 3 for the x1.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnJEPh9pYN0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaV2nZSkw8A&feature=youtube_gdata_player


    Microsoft is official silent partner of Micron Technology.
    http://investors.micron.com...

    http://www.eetimes.com/docu...

    www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/02/hybrid_memory_cube_arm_hp_hynix/
    This May, Microsoft joined the HMC consortium. The company has a direct interest in memory technology because of its Xbox game consoles – and now its Surface fondleslabs – and an indirect interest because of its dominant position in the PC and server rackets and its status as a provider of raw computing from its Azure cloud.
    Last edited by The Sith; 10-06-2013 at 19:38.

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    I just wrote a reply then deleted it to write I can't be bothered. What is it with these $#@!ty articles lately??

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    "Ultimately, for the core gamer, the games will matter and both systems will have enough of those at launch."
    That's what matters the most for me. Xbox-one has some awesome launch titles coming. I don't think devs are gonna be complaining about having to work with DDR3 and ESRAM.

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    Who said this about the ps4 setup...MS? The guys who's own 1st party devs aren't too pleased with the console? Yea, the info that came straight from Double Agent Phil's mouth, right? Yea, that MS. Oh, well there's nothing to see here.



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    well I'm glad they said that games are what matters because otherwise i would be worried about all that 8GB of GDDR5 RAM on the PS4. Thank you Nick.
    Last edited by Omar; 10-06-2013 at 16:56.

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    You don't really need GDDR5 if you have Balance it seems. The proof will be in the puddings!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    well I'm glad they said that games are what matters because otherwise i would be worried about all that 8GB of GDDR5 RAM on the PS4. Thank you Nick.
    I don't see why they need to worry. I'm sure they had the opportunity to go with GDDR5, but if you can get the same end result with DDR3 and ESRAM, why not go for it. That combo worked out pretty well with the 360. Until I see a huge difference in games, I have to say that going that same route again is paying off. They took what worked before, added more, and tweaked the hell out of it.

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    They didn't go with gddr5 because they was scared to take a chance on it. Not because it's "bad". They were scared that it wasn't going to be available in time for the launch. And they also said that the xbone was designed from day one to have 8GB of RAM. Sony gambled and it payed off.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I don't see why they need to worry. I'm sure they had the opportunity to go with GDDR5, but if you can get the same end result with DDR3 and ESRAM, why not go for it. That combo worked out pretty well with the 360. Until I see a huge difference in games, I have to say that going that same route again is paying off. They took what worked before, added more, and tweaked the hell out of it.
    it's the same argument PS3 fans had about the PS3 being more powerful (if this were to happen or that) and how that failed in multiplat games where devs don't go out their way to work with complications.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    it's the same argument PS3 fans had about the PS3 being more powerful (if this were to happen or that) and how that failed in multiplat games where devs don't go out their way to work with complications.
    Yea, but I don't really see devs complaining about having to work with RAM setup for xb1. MS has even said that it's even easier than the xbox360. The guy in the article is just saying that for the combination of things that they wanted(power, memory size, performance)ESRAM is the better fit for them.

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    Madcatz MOJO is gonna whup it's butt in Power Efficiency, and the OUYA already does as well. I still would rather just have as much graphics as you can throw on my big screen for as little money as I have to spend, my cell phone can worry about it's energy efficiency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Yea, but I don't really see devs complaining about having to work with RAM setup for xb1. MS has even said that it's even easier than the xbox360. The guy in the article is just saying that for the combination of things that they wanted(power, memory size, performance)ESRAM is the better fit for them.
    it's not about complaints. it's the natural course of how programming works.

    that extra bandwidth they're getting isn't going to be utilized by everyone. it will depend on who will want to work with it to achieve it. that's precisely why Cerny choose a straight-up method rather than a work-around. that's precisely why the setup is being praised.

    every little bit of simplicity is important in programming and combine that with raw power, you have a winner there...especially on a console. honestly this is the first time we're seeing a console that does not have the problems consoles face...which is about complicating things.

    i have heard that PS1 was the last console to do that. i think Xbox was also there but i guess the console itself was not supported well so devs didn't take advantage of it as much as they could've.

    what happened with the PS3 was that devs were able to get a stable build running well on the 360 and then they had issues with the PS3. so in the beginning, they just left it like that. three things,

    1) PS3 was more powerful than the 360 overall so the difference wasn't that bad.

    2) X1 is nowhere near as complicated as PS3 but the concept is the same so it applies.

    3) X1 is not more powerful than the PS4, in fact, its theoretical power doesn't come close either, not to mention, the RAM is slower.

    so why people think that the difference is going to be the same thing as current gen? I don't know. the only thing I will say is that we're not going to see much of a difference in the beginning because a lot of engines are cross-gen so they're weak to begin with. once the multiplat games are created to do more complicated things moving forward, the differences will start to become more clear.

    bottom line, it's not about how much easier X1 is than X360 because it's still not straight-forward like the PS4. the problems will still be there as far as who is going go out of their way to really utilize the "theoretical" power of the X1 when the PS4 is doing more than that in "raw" power.

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    So Nick Baker who looks after the XBone architecture team claims their architecture is better? Who would have thought it? lol

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    According to Nick Baker, who looks after the Xbox One’s architecture team believes that GDDR5 is uncomfortable to work with and ESRAM gives the Xbox One the right balance for bandwidth and power consumption.
    stupid me, i thought it was about keeping the system cool while running and GDDR5 could have had the system running to hot for MS's likes...

    oh well.......
    Last edited by Yungstar 2006; 10-06-2013 at 18:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    stupid me, i thought it was about keeping the system cool while running and GDDR5 could have had the system running to hot for MS's likes... oh well.......
    "According to Nick Baker." 'nuff said.

  23. #18
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    Lol it better make Em uncomfortable! Lol goddamn ms, whats next?

    We all know they went with that configuration (8ddr3 with the esram patchwork) because of the whole multimedia Outlook they had and thinking Sony was going to stick with 2-4 gddr5...lol the uncomfortable-ness might Stem from realizing Sony upped it to 8!

    Soon enough unified memory will be uncomfortable

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    Last edited by YoungMullah88; 10-06-2013 at 19:06.

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    GDDR5 Is basic graphic card tech and has been for years. This is not the same as brand new cell tech...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captobvious75 View Post
    GDDR5 Is basic graphic card tech and has been for years. This is not the same as brand new cell tech... Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
    Yep, which is another fact that makes Nick Bakers statements ridiculous.

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    Wow.
    Uh this is just a rehash of the digital foundry interview. Why all the activity in an out of context quote from an article that has been posted for ages?


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    yea the heading is sensationalist and he's right about what he said, what he won't tell you is that the setup Sony chose is still superior due to the extra ease of development that comes with it and the overall raw performance of GDDR5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    yea the heading is sensationalist and he's right about what he said, what he won't tell you is that the setup Sony chose is still superior due to the extra ease of development that comes with it and the overall raw performance of GDDR5.
    It's superior for what they want. I think the DDR3 is better for what ms goals are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Wow.
    Uh this is just a rehash of the digital foundry interview. Why all the activity in an out of context quote from an article that has been posted for ages?


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    Because when a big company tries to rape the gaming industry and gamers and then gets kicked in the nads for it and has to back off, we continue to step on their nads and grind away hoping they never can spawn such incredibly audacious jackassery again, every chance we get!
    That's why

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    You don't really need GDDR5 if you have Balance it seems. The proof will be in the puddings!
    So there is more than 1 pudding?

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