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  1. #26
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    You won't have it plugged in but for those that don't know what's going on? I'm pretty sure they'll leave it plugged in and will be automatically "opted-in" because they didn't know about the small print and the "tick this box if you don't want your data sold to other agencies and companies". The law should be changed to have it reversed where your data should always be "opted-out" unless you tick the box.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agriel View Post
    If I buy an XB1 I will only plug in Kintect to fap, I figure if they want to watch me, might as well give them something to watch.
    LOL! We can set up a massive community bating session at X time. Let them get a load of that. All puns intended

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  4. #28
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    So I can expect my activities to be on a porn site

    In all seriousness doesn't Sony employ these kind of measures when you buy something off them and I seem to remember them putting rootkits on cd's.
    Last edited by MacP; 10-07-2013 at 14:40.
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  5. #29
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    hmm, i wonder if the whole "mandatory" thing wasn't just for the games. duh?

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    So I can expect my activities to be on a porn site

    In all seriousness doesn't Sony employ these kind of measures when you buy something off them and I seem to remember them putting rootkits on cd's.
    Sony PlayStation Keeping a log of games and movies you buy then offering recommendations on other similar games and movies, or Sony BMG music putting DRM in music CDs [10 years ago] to attempt to control piracy are completely different to MS basically putting a camera in your room watching you and your family, using facial recognition and measuring you and your children's heartbeat while you watch TV adverts to see which products excite you THEN SELLING that data on to other companies who will target their ads to you and your family.
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 10-07-2013 at 15:04.
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  7. #31
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    they're not going to monitor your children's heartbeat or anyone in general. if it ever happens, they will let people know, whether it's a clever way to do it or not. yes people are easy to manipulate or swindle as evidenced by people in this thread, that would be ok with this. that's what data mining is all about and it's the future.

    but i don't think they're going to be monitoring you without your persmission, that would be a huge ass class action suit.

  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    That doesn't make what I said any less true. My point still stands. If you want to buy the X1 you will have to pay $100 extra because of the "included" Kinect. #truthfact.
    Obviously you are gonna pay extra if you get extra. That's the way it works. No one is giving away free stuff. People are still gonna buy regardless. It's not only about the price but the games too.

  9. #33
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    sadly price is a pretty big factor even with more games. we know that from the entire current generation. so even if X1 had more games, which i highly doubt, it would still suffer due to the extra cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Obviously you are gonna pay extra if you get extra. That's the way it works. No one is giving away free stuff. People are still gonna buy regardless. It's not only about the price but the games too.

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    they're not going to monitor your children's heartbeat or anyone in general. if it ever happens, they will let people know, whether it's a clever way to do it or not. yes people are easy to manipulate or swindle as evidenced by people in this thread, that would be ok with this. that's what data mining is all about and it's the future.

    but i don't think they're going to be monitoring you without your persmission, that would be a huge ass class action suit.
    Like they were never going block used games? We only found out because of Agent Phil's Freudian slip after the conference. During the MS reveal conference they completely omitted that aspect.

    Never underestimate MS ability to screw customers over for a few quid. They have google envy, HARD. Have you not heard all the talk of "Kinect is so Powerful it can detect your heartbeat!" crap as though it's a selling point.

    So what about the future of advertising on the Xbox One? “It’s going to be an exciting transition though because the 360 console wasn’t built with advertising in mind, it was more of an afterthought, so we’ve had to adapt how to the technology and how we work to fit them in to the console,” said Technical Account Manager for Xbox LIVE Advertising, “whereas this new one is going to have advertising in mind. So a lot of the limitations that we have now, hopefully the release of the boundaries will widened so the opportunities will be a lot greater.
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 10-07-2013 at 15:19.
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  11. #35
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    yes that sounds scary as hell, especially now but actually monitoring you without your consent would be illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    sadly price is a pretty big factor even with more games. we know that from the entire current generation. so even if X1 had more games, which i highly doubt, it would still suffer due to the extra cost.
    I'm sure MS knows what they are giving up and price is always a factor. I would do the same if I was in their position. Get as many cams out there as you can initially and then cut the price of the console later. It's safer than trying to sell as a standalone. Suffering in sales at launch isn't gonna kill them. Just look at vita for example.

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    yes that sounds scary as hell, especially now but actually monitoring you without your consent would be illegal.
    Found an old article that states your consent is provided within the T&C.

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/...-can-it-share/

    Kinect monitoring you, not being able to sue MS for it, the whole she-bang.

    As you know the Xbone is essentially a brick until you download the day 1 patch, meaning everyone who buys it will have to accept the T&C to use it in the first place.

    MS is evil.

  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Found an old article that states your consent is provided within the T&C.

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/...-can-it-share/

    Kinect monitoring you, not being able to sue MS for it, the whole she-bang.

    As you know the Xbone is essentially a brick until you download the day 1 patch, meaning everyone who buys it will have to accept the T&C to use it in the first place.

    MS is evil.
    It's just normal terms and conditions stuff.

  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I'm sure MS knows what they are giving up and price is always a factor. I would do the same if I was in their position. Get as many cams out there as you can initially and then cut the price of the console later. It's safer than trying to sell as a standalone. Suffering in sales at launch isn't gonna kill them. Just look at vita for example.
    but that is killing Sony. I think it's stupid what Sony did with Vita, irony here is that soon after, they did everything right with the PS4 so far.

    which is funny because they were made with the same people. it seems to me that they got lucky with the PS4 and wanted to continue that and have been making big changes in order to keep people happy. like it's obvious that they took out the camera from the PS4 SKU.

    it is not the best way to do this. yes, i agree that kinect itself is awesome and i would rather have it mandatory or integral you can say but then i'd still want them to keep the price as low or lower than the PS4.

    it sucked that Sony pretty much axed their cam but you understand why they did it. price is not a joke, especially after a recoving economy when people have become conscious about the price.

    trust me, MS is following Sony's strategy and we know for a fact that it failed. keeping the cam the way it is now is equivalent to Sony's Blu-Ray. it's going to be a plague to the end. i'm starting to think now that Kinect wasn't all about video games and menus. if MS' idea was to bring advertisement through it then i would not support the device. because we're not getting anything more out of it than we would if it wasn't mandatory.

    to reiterate: the only reason i supported mandatory Kinect was because it meant potential games that we would otherwise not get.

    it somewhat makes sense now why MS never had anything to show. i was under a different impression and was giving them benefit of the doubt that mandatory was for better support. to date, we have not seen anything from Kinect 2.0 as far as gaming, that Kinect 1.0 didn't do. speaking about support, we know 2.0 is better.

  16. #40
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    Wait you can't use the box u paid 429 to play games unless u accept MS T and C that includes the kinect data permissions?

    That is $#@!ing scary. I wonder how many people ever read the T and C.
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  17. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    Wait you can't use the box u paid 429 to play games unless u accept MS T and C that includes the kinect data permissions?

    That is $#@!ing scary. I wonder how many people ever read the T and C.

    “There was always going to be a day one update on the console, and that’s frankly just a difference in manufacturing schedules versus software schedules,” Whitten told IGN. “We just wanted to be clear that that hasn’t changed, that you have to go online to get the software update for day one, then you wouldn’t have to be connected after that.”
    http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/06/1...day-one-update

    Day 1 patch is mandatory, now we know why.

  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    but that is killing Sony. I think it's stupid what Sony did with Vita, irony here is that soon after, they did everything right with the PS4 so far.
    What's is killing sony covers more than one area. That started way before the console stuff.

    which is funny because they were made with the same people. it seems to me that they got lucky with the PS4 and wanted to continue that and have been making big changes in order to keep people happy. like it's obvious that they took out the camera from the PS4 SKU.
    Of course they did. They really didn't have a choice if they wanted to be the cheaper option.


    trust me, MS is following Sony's strategy and we know for a fact that it failed. keeping the cam the way it is now is equivalent to Sony's Blu-Ray. it's going to be a plague to the end. i'm starting to think now that Kinect wasn't all about video games and menus. if MS' idea was to bring advertisement through it then i would not support the device. because we're not getting anything more out of it than we would if it wasn't mandatory.
    It's nothing like the situation with blu ray. MS can sell the console without it. Sony couldn't do that with ps3.

    to reiterate: the only reason i supported mandatory Kinect was because it meant potential games that we would otherwise not get.

    it somewhat makes sense now why MS never had anything to show. i was under a different impression and was giving them benefit of the doubt that mandatory was for better support. to date, we have not seen anything from Kinect 2.0 as far as gaming, that Kinect 1.0 didn't do. speaking about support, we know 2.0 is better.
    First thing is getting the device into the homes, then the support will come. There are kinect games out there. The games will come.

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    What's is killing sony covers more than one area. That started way before the console stuff.
    way to avoid the issue. i swear you must be the master of red herring fallacy.
    Of course they did. They really didn't have a choice if they wanted to be the cheaper option.
    ok, you're just reiterating what i just said. what is the point of that? are you telling me that MS has a choice at a $100 extra price tag?
    It's nothing like the situation with blu ray. MS can sell the console without it. Sony couldn't do that with ps3.
    true but from what you're implying, how they can lower the price later...it doesn't matter if they lower the price tag, the problem is that it will always be higher than PS4, until they get rid of that cam. yes, they can sell it without it and they will need to do that if they want to stay competitive and come down to a more consumer-friendly price.

    sony basically worked their asses off in the latter half of the gen and that price still was a huge hurdle.

    First thing is getting the device into the homes, then the support will come. There are kinect games out there. The games will come.
    yes and no. i would give them that and was, because i figured that was their plan. now, honestly i don't know. they should at least "show" us what they want to do as far as games, will there be more support? there's no promise, nothing. so far it's just that kinect is better and well, there's the advertisements.

    it's the same concept that one would have about normal gaming, you can't just say that you should buy the X1 and then we'll show you games. the games will come. you can't sell that BS. at some point, before purchase, you need to know that there's a reason that you're buying this.

    there's no precedence either, Kinect 1.0 didn't bring it more than other devices. it wasn't supported more. it just sold really well with a certain crowd. it didn't bring additional support in core gaming or even casual gaming than other devices on the market.

    that is not going to sell very well sir. you have to justify the price tag.

  20. #44
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    What did Sony do when they revealed the PS4 ?

    They showed a camera sitting beside the controller! Marketing at its best right there it made me think the camera came with it, when they said it's not coming with the system but it's an optional $88 I thought it's less than the price of a game and it allows me to use my move controllers that I bought already so what the hey.

    When Sony confirmed that the camera could be used for 3D video calls I was impressed also very impressed with the mic array they featured it means voice will be picked up very clearly.
    " A Toll's a toll and a roll's a roll. If we don't get no toll's, then we don't eat no roll's"

  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    What's is killing sony covers more than one area. That started way before the console stuff.
    Judging by ps4 preorders and Xperia Z range of tablets and phones selling like crazy everywhere, I'd Sony is alive and kicking. Kaz Hirai's strategy is beginning to bear fruit.

    Regardless this is a pretty evil practice Microsoft are implementing in the Xbone, It's pretty disgusting.
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    it's more likely that it was supposed to be with the original SKU because the DS4 comes with a built-in move. so you don't necessarily need your move controller. i'm sure it wasn't mandatory but they definitely had to keep it away due to all the backlash MS rcvd.
    Quote Originally Posted by chriharr View Post
    What did Sony do when they revealed the PS4 ?

    They showed a camera sitting beside the controller! Marketing at its best right there it made me think the camera came with it, when they said it's not coming with the system but it's an optional $88 I thought it's less than the price of a game and it allows me to use my move controllers that I bought already so what the hey.

    When Sony confirmed that the camera could be used for 3D video calls I was impressed also very impressed with the mic array they featured it means voice will be picked up very clearly.

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    So far, every XBone demonstration has had to have the Kinect plugged in. It may not be required to use it but it looks like it still needs to be plugged in and there was one report that MS said it had to be plugged in and always on for any speech recognition to work. Maybe it will be different after the first firmware update but all indications the dongle function is there until then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    way to avoid the issue. i swear you must be the master of red herring fallacy.
    It is the issue. It a result of their overall strategy.
    ok, you're just reiterating what i just said. what is the point of that? are you telling me that MS has a choice at a $100 extra price tag?
    It's always a choice. Sell it as a standalone and risk it not doing well or guarantee the device will get to consumers by adding it with the bundle. It's a easy choice. I was saying that sony really didn't have a choice if they wanted to get cheaper. What else were they gonna do?

    true but from what you're implying, how they can lower the price later...it doesn't matter if they lower the price tag, the problem is that it will always be higher than PS4, until they get rid of that cam. yes, they can sell it without it and they will need to do that if they want to stay competitive and come down to a more consumer-friendly price.

    sony basically worked their asses off in the latter half of the gen and that price still was a huge hurdle.
    This is about being successful. They don't need a lower price to achieve it. They don't have to outsell sony right out of the gate or at all this gen. They have pretty much accomplished what they needed to do with the xbox360, which is build a strong brand in the US.

    yes and no. i would give them that and was, because i figured that was their plan. now, honestly i don't know. they should at least "show" us what they want to do as far as games, will there be more support? there's no promise, nothing. so far it's just that kinect is better and well, there's the advertisements.

    it's the same concept that one would have about normal gaming, you can't just say that you should buy the X1 and then we'll show you games. the games will come. you can't sell that BS. at some point, before purchase, you need to know that there's a reason that you're buying this.
    Yes you can. It's really no different than what sony did with vita. It's about games and the whole experience. There are games being develop for Kinect. They won't hit till early next year. The one launch title from Rare was pushed back and there is also D4. And those are just the ones we know about. With MS strategy with xb1 as a dev kit(along with kinect sdk too) there will be some kinect experiences coming. It's not just about first party support.



    there's no precedence either, Kinect 1.0 didn't bring it more than other devices. it wasn't supported more. it just sold really well with a certain crowd. it didn't bring additional support in core gaming or even casual gaming than other devices on the market.

    that is not going to sell very well sir. you have to justify the price tag.
    there will be more games. You are complaining about a device that hasn't even hit the market yet. MS is doing the right thing which is focusing on the core gamer. That's what people want, right? They wanted less kinect and more core experiences. Now that they are giving us that, people want more kinect...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    Judging by ps4 preorders and Xperia Z range of tablets and phones selling like crazy everywhere, I'd Sony is alive and kicking. Kaz Hirai's strategy is beginning to bear fruit.
    It's still not gonna be released at a profit though, which is normal. Anything is better than than what they started out with last gen. You either go up or down and they really couldn't afford to keep going down. They really had nowhere else to go.

    Regardless this is a pretty evil practice Microsoft are implementing in the Xbone, It's pretty disgusting.
    Then you must hate the ps4's pseye too because it actually has two cameras recording you.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-07-2013 at 17:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Obviously you are gonna pay extra if you get extra. That's the way it works. No one is giving away free stuff. People are still gonna buy regardless. It's not only about the price but the games too.
    But what if you don't want extra? What if you just want the console and aren't interested in Kinect? MS is telling those people tough luck, if you want to buy our console you have to pay $100 extra for an unwanted peripheral. Spin it anyway you want but that is a fact. Thats one of the reasons MS is being criticised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I'm sure MS knows what they are giving up and price is always a factor. I would do the same if I was in their position. Get as many cams out there as you can initially and then cut the price of the console later. It's safer than trying to sell as a standalone. Suffering in sales at launch isn't gonna kill them. Just look at vita for example.
    "Its safer than trying to sell as a standalone." There, you just said it yourself. I've always said that MS is doing this because they don't have confidence in Kinect to sell as a separate product. So MS passes the cost onto the consumer in order to avoid losing money. Now why would that be if MS felt the first Kinect was successful enough? Maybe because they don't?

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