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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Like i said before, how much time do people spend on the dash or the home screen for xbox live? It's just a small inconvenience. When people pay to see a movie at the theatre they bombard you with ads(not just with upcoming movies either) before the movie actually starts. It's really a smart move to advertise on xbox-live and PSN. It's a win-win. The advertised product reaches millions of potential customers and the service owners get paid. How would gamers like it if gaming consoles couldn't be advertised on tv? You can't expect the industry to reach gamers by the console alone.
    but when those ads will be there when you actually own the movie, i'm sure that'll piss you off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    actually if Sony had the chance, they would've done the same so i can't argue here.
    really Sufi?

    Really?

    I expect better from you as a poster.

    this isnt gaf were certain individuals who favor a certain console go "sony too" (which has now become a meme). and that meme in the past has been proven wrong time and time again.

    seriously bra, your better than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    but when those ads will be there when you actually own the movie, i'm sure that'll piss you off.
    I don't get mad at such trivial stuff. Ads are just part of our society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post



    Oh my...
    Ugh. Hated it so much had to downvote your post.

    Ergh.
    I am the oncoming storm.



  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    really Sufi?

    Really?

    I expect better from you as a poster.

    this isnt gaf were certain individuals who favor a certain console go "sony too" (which has now become a meme). and that meme in the past has been proven wrong time and time again.

    seriously bra, your better than that.
    it's not in sony's interest to do the data-mining or ads stuff because they don't have the resources and they have no leverage from other businesses. it seems like MS has found a way to make money off that.

    but let's not kid ourselves, Sony once gave us a nice little update on XMB and they added ads and a feed that was also about ads. they could've given us something better but instead they chose to give us ads.

    granted, Sony isn't as intrusive as MS but really if they had the chance, it would make no sense to me why they wouldn't try to do the same. guess what Home was supposed to be all about. we should be glad it failed because that's precisely what it was supposed to be.

    if the PS3 was powerful enough to have Home as a startup, i'm pretty sure they had thought about doing that at some point or they wouldn't have the game support from within and all those sharing they had promised. they wanted people to be there at all times. had that worked and had they executed that right, we would've been in the most innovative ad program in the video game industry, to say the least.

    it just didn't work. and Sony abandoned it.

    Sony is playing nice because that's the key to success but when the time is right, they too will try to be greedy again. that's why we must keep our eyes peeled.

    Remember Google? Oh yea, we loved them for their lack of ads and extra junk. Do you know what happened? Yea, they're not much better than others...granted they make their privacy stuff more up front but they too sell their data and know everything about you.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    it's not in sony's interest to do the data-mining or ads stuff because they don't have the resources and they have no leverage from other businesses. it seems like MS has found a way to make money off that.

    but let's not kid ourselves, Sony once gave us a nice little update on XMB and they added ads and a feed that was also about ads. they could've given us something better but instead they chose to give us ads.

    granted, Sony isn't as intrusive as MS but really if they had the chance, it would make no sense to me why they wouldn't try to do the same. guess what Home was supposed to be all about. we should be glad it failed because that's precisely what it was supposed to be.

    if the PS3 was powerful enough to have Home as a startup, i'm pretty sure they had thought about doing that at some point or they wouldn't have the game support from within and all those sharing they had promised. they wanted people to be there at all times. had that worked and had they executed that right, we would've been in the most innovative ad program in the video game industry, to say the least.

    it just didn't work. and Sony abandoned it.

    Sony is playing nice because that's the key to success but when the time is right, they too will try to be greedy again. that's why we must keep our eyes peeled.

    Remember Google? Oh yea, we loved them for their lack of ads and extra junk. Do you know what happened? Yea, they're not much better than others...granted they make their privacy stuff more up front but they too sell their data and know everything about you.
    Greedy again? I don't think it's correct to assume what you think Sony would do without anything that supports it.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    it's not in sony's interest to do the data-mining or ads stuff because they don't have the resources and they have no leverage from other businesses. it seems like MS has found a way to make money off that.

    but let's not kid ourselves, Sony once gave us a nice little update on XMB and they added ads and a feed that was also about ads. they could've given us something better but instead they chose to give us ads.

    granted, Sony isn't as intrusive as MS but really if they had the chance, it would make no sense to me why they wouldn't try to do the same. guess what Home was supposed to be all about. we should be glad it failed because that's precisely what it was supposed to be.

    if the PS3 was powerful enough to have Home as a startup, i'm pretty sure they had thought about doing that at some point or they wouldn't have the game support from within and all those sharing they had promised. they wanted people to be there at all times. had that worked and had they executed that right, we would've been in the most innovative ad program in the video game industry, to say the least.

    it just didn't work. and Sony abandoned it.

    Sony is playing nice because that's the key to success but when the time is right, they too will try to be greedy again. that's why we must keep our eyes peeled.

    Remember Google? Oh yea, we loved them for their lack of ads and extra junk. Do you know what happened? Yea, they're not much better than others...granted they make their privacy stuff more up front but they too sell their data and know everything about you.
    we'll never know for absolute certainty that if Sony had the deep pockets MS has that they would employ such tactics. it's all hypothetical. btw Home isnt a failure. far from it. they make quite a bit of moola from it. if it was a total failure then home would not exist right now. also the ads we see on ps3 are only there if we look for them. they can be disabled.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Greedy again? I don't think it's correct to assume what you think Sony would do without anything that supports it.
    Home. Rootkits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    we'll never know for absolute certainty that if Sony had the deep pockets MS has that they would employ such tactics. it's all hypothetical.
    what do you think the whole thing about blu-ray was? it was exactly this. they did realize that it wasn't making them money so they didn't do that this time around. it's better for companies to be more fair or eventually they will fall. that's what companies are realizing now. if you want to do something like ads, you have to be up front about it like google.

    btw Home isnt a failure. far from it. they make quite a bit of moola from it. if it was a total failure then home would not exist right now. also the ads we see on ps3 are only there if we look for them. they can be disabled.
    it's not a total failure but it's nothing like what it was supposed to be.

    yes, the ads aren't that bad but i don't think they can be disabled. like i said, if the console was more powerful to support such things, we'd see more of it. MS just always had this sort of thing from the start so they are able to incorporate it much better than Sony, also MS has better knowledge of how to incorporate things like that in an OS whereas Sony is still a baby when it comes to that.

    MS is like the Walmart of OS, whereas Sony is that local guy that's straight up and doesn't get how to swindle people yet in this sort of thing...but once he becomes the next Meijer's, heck yea he'll try to do the same...especially if the customers were ok with it and apparently it seems like, at least a few people here that are Xbox users, are perfectly fine with all that (obviously not F34R lol).

    so yea, it's all good in the hood but let's keep our eyes peeled, the moment Sony tries to do something like this, i will be thinking about my loyalty very hard.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Home. Rootkits.

    what do you think the whole thing about blu-ray was? it was exactly this. they did realize that it wasn't making them money so they didn't do that this time around. it's better for companies to be more fair or eventually they will fall. that's what companies are realizing now. if you want to do something like ads, you have to be up front about it like google.

    it's not a total failure but it's nothing like what it was supposed to be.

    yes, the ads aren't that bad but i don't think they can be disabled. like i said, if the console was more powerful to support such things, we'd see more of it. MS just always had this sort of thing from the start so they are able to incorporate it much better than Sony, also MS has better knowledge of how to incorporate things like that in an OS whereas Sony is still a baby when it comes to that.

    MS is like the Walmart of OS, whereas Sony is that local guy that's straight up and doesn't get how to swindle people yet in this sort of thing...but once he becomes the next Meijer's, heck yea he'll try to do the same...especially if the customers were ok with it and apparently it seems like, at least a few people here that are Xbox users, are perfectly fine with all that (obviously not F34R lol).

    so yea, it's all good in the hood but let's keep our eyes peeled, the moment Sony tries to do something like this, i will be thinking about my loyalty very hard.
    Home isn't required to launch or play, or even have on your PS3. Rootkits... doesn't have anything to do with advertising on the dash.




  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Home isn't required to launch or play, or even have on your PS3. Rootkits... doesn't have anything to do with advertising on the dash.
    that's true but Home largely didn't turn out the way they wanted it to. had they done that right, it might have been integral. there was a lot of talk that it was supposed to be. we don't know if it was going to be but the focus was that it was the main way Sony wanted users to interact. could've sworn they even asked users if they wanted it as a boot up option.

    rootkit, while has nothing to do with ads, what i mean is that Sony does have the ability to do something like this. it's not out of the question. they haven't done it yet and i'm cool with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    the moment Sony tries to do something like this, i will be thinking about my loyalty very hard.
    i can agree with this part, but i'd rather leave gaming than go with the competitor. it wouldnt feel right (for me at least)

    also about the walmart stuff, when it comes to hardware, it's the exact opposite

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    i can agree with this part, but i'd rather leave gaming than go with the competitor. it wouldnt feel right (for me at least)

    also about the walmart stuff, when it comes to hardware, it's the exact opposite
    yup. well, i won't mind going MS but not in the state they are right now. i have praised 360 countless times and i think overall they had a lot of things right...i don't agree with their video game dry spell periods and how they never reinvested into game development but at least for the first half of the generation, they did really well and I think Live was a good idea even though i wouldn't pay for it. not unless i was really heavy into gaming.

    i would defo go with nintendo because they don't have any incentive to do anything outside of gaming right now and ironically may be the reason for their recent demise. there's always PC and handheld gaming.

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    I love Nintendo for not having a single ad on my 3ds.




  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I love Nintendo for not having a single ad on my 3ds.
    yup and they have no reason to do it either. just different circumstances. the moment that they are able to do it and have the gains to do it, they will try it at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    yup and they have no reason to do it either. just different circumstances. the moment that they are able to do it and have the gains to do it, they will try it at least.
    Dude, they are able to do it right now, unless there's something you know about them that no one else does.




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    It's crazy how far MS has strayed since the first half of the 360 lifespan to now. They did a lot of great things but since then, they completely fizzled over the last few years IMO. I know not everyone feels that way. But it was the main reason why I slowly shifted from 360 being my main console to PS3.




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  18. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    It's crazy how far MS has strayed since the first half of the 360 lifespan to now. They did a lot of great things but since then, they completely fizzled over the last few years IMO. I know not everyone feels that way. But it was the main reason why I slowly shifted from 360 being my main console to PS3.
    I think you're 100% correct.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Of course they did. They really didn't have a choice if they wanted to be the cheaper option.
    The PS4 camera is 59.99$ including it in the box would still be cheaper then the X1 with Kinect.

    It's pretty sad when you are forced to sign TOS that includes being spied on for advertising in order to use a product. New digital laws should require companies to let you decide which terms you agree to and which ones you don't. Then you'd see who is really into the game of spying and who really listens to their audience by the mere fact of usage restrictions depending on your agreements.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3freak18 View Post
    It's crazy how far MS has strayed since the first half of the 360 lifespan to now. They did a lot of great things but since then, they completely fizzled over the last few years IMO. I know not everyone feels that way. But it was the main reason why I slowly shifted from 360 being my main console to PS3.
    Same here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    The PS4 camera is 59.99$ including it in the box would still be cheaper then the X1 with Kinect.

    It's pretty sad when you are forced to sign TOS that includes being spied on for advertising in order to use a product. New digital laws should require companies to let you decide which terms you agree to and which ones you don't. Then you'd see who is really into the game of spying and who really listens to their audience by the mere fact of usage restrictions depending on your agreements.
    My sentiments as well. The ads although dumb and annoying are manageable if they are just in the feed. The spying for marketing reasons is just crooked plain and simple. I don't know why anyone would be OK with this.




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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    The PS4 camera is 59.99$ including it in the box would still be cheaper then the X1 with Kinect.

    It's pretty sad when you are forced to sign TOS that includes being spied on for advertising in order to use a product. New digital laws should require companies to let you decide which terms you agree to and which ones you don't. Then you'd see who is really into the game of spying and who really listens to their audience by the mere fact of usage restrictions depending on your agreements.
    It's not spying. It's just the usual paranoia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Dude, they are able to do it right now, unless there's something you know about them that no one else does.
    pretty fair to say that they aren't able to do it and it wouldn't be feasible. what are they going to do with that data? MS and Sony can actually use it to boost their other divisions and then sell that data to other companies. Nintendo keeps it all gaming, they don't have any other interests, they have a specific strategy where they try to focus on profits rather than assets/investments (expansions).

    it's not feasible for them to alienate their user base when they don't even have the engineering power to come up with a decent OS that can do as much as the other consoles are doing. the OS just isn't that versatile and they have no intention to improve on it. it would take quite a lot of money for them to actually start working on it. it's not a simple task. i knew both Sony and MS had other plans to include in their gaming division but didn't exactly know what MS was on about.

    it makes sense that they started out with simpler ads for the Live and now are moving towards bigger ones. for all we know, kinect may have been a tool to get the ad stuff to the next limit. it seems like there's more potential in ads so far than gaming, from what we know so far. heartbeat? expressions? sounds interesting but seriously, question yourself, when was the last time these things (or similar) were used well in a video game...even if they did, would people actually want to play it? all of it smells like BS to me now.

    i have a feeling MS is going to take the FB route and come out with cheap or F2P kinect games that might take your data readings as you play. and the ads in general might see what your expressions are about them. it's an easy way to get a real feedback without interruptions.

    MS had it all planned out. Sony just doesn't have the horsepower and the funding to pull something this far into the future. Up until now, I could never figure out why MS kept diving deeper into the gaming industry without really investing into the game development, considering the deep pockets they have. Just like Sony had their plans to incorporate their movie/music/TV/mediaplayer business into the gaming division but never really took off the way they wanted it to. in fact, caused somewhat of a defeat with the PS3.

    it seems like they went back to the drawing board and thought they overshot a little, so let's go back to what made PS good. It seems like MS is doing exactly what Sony wanted to do with the PS2 and then the PS3.

    anyway, went off there for a bit lol. point being, Nintendo has no stake into all this mambo jambo, they don't go out of their way to deviate or have bigger plans. there's no Nintendo Movie Business Division that's putting pressure on the gaming division to try and leverage things for them. that's one advantage and somewhat of a disadvantage that Nintendo has.

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    According to this, it wasn't referring to Kinect.

    Xbox One's Kinect will not record marketing data from its users, Microsoft recently told All Things D.This is in response to Advertising Age's story last week, which reportedly misinterpreted a quote from marketing and strategy vice president Yusuf Mehdi. Mehdi's original statement concerns Microsoft's attempt to "bridge some of the world between online and offline."
    "We have a pretty unique position at Microsoft because of what we do with digital, as well as more and more with television because of Xbox," Mehdi told Advertising Age. "It's early days, but we're starting to put that together in more of a unifying way, and hopefully at some point we can start to offer that to advertisers broadly."

    According to a statement from Microsoft, however, the quote "is not in relation" to the Kinect. Mehdi was simply referring to content the Xbox One can carry into different platforms.

    "For example, just as Xbox SmartGlass allows companion mobile experiences that are synchronous to what is being watched on TV, advertisers could create new experiences unifying their content across devices," Microsoft told All Things D via email.
    "We have a long-standing commitment to your privacy and will not target ads to you based on any data Kinect collects unless you choose to allow us to do so."
    Last week, director of product planning Albert Penello took to NeoGAF to assure forum users that the Kinect was not designed with ad functionality in mind.
    http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/7/481...microsoft-says




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    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=1590

    Well I think there's two things you're asking. NuAds by definition is simply interactive advertising done on the platform. Using the functions of the console and Kinect to interact vs. just watching a spot. There's nothing particularly interesting happening here unless you're in the advertising business, and we've done a few on Xbox 360 today.

    What I think you're asking about is an interview done earlier in the year where someone was talking about how some of the new Xbox One Kinect features *could* be used in advertising - since we can see expressions, engagement, etc. and how that might be used to target advertising. This is the point that seems to draw some controversy.

    First - nobody is working on that. We have a lot more interesting and pressing things to dedicate time towards. It was an interview done speculatively, and I'm not aware of any active work in this space.

    Second - if something like that ever happened, you can be sure it wouldn't happen without the user having control over it. Period.

    Two examples of how we deal with similar things today:

    First, Kinect can recognize your face and log you in automatically. There could be some cool features we could enable if we stored that data in the cloud, like being able to be auto-recognized at a friend's. I get asked for that feature a lot. But, for privacy reasons, your facial data doesn't leave the console.

    Second: You'll see us do some things around Skype that freezes the video when Skype is not in focus (meaning, it's not the primary app). If you go back to the home screen, or launch another app, we actually stop the video stream. We do this so the user can't even ACCIDENTALLY have the video stream going on in the background.

    I'll say this - we take a lot of heat around stuff we've done and I can roll with it. Some of it is deserved. But preventing Kinect from being used inappropriately is something the team takes very seriously.

    Hope that helps.




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    "We have a long-standing commitment to your privacy and will not target ads to you based on any data Kinect collects unless you choose to allow us to do so."
    lol

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