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    PSU's Beyond Two Souls review

    http://www.psu.com/a021256/Beyond--T...-miss#comments

    We'll be posting up the first couple of chapters with commentary shortly so check the front page if you don't mind some mild spoilers.
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    Great review, and if it weren't for PS4's imminent arrival I would've set funds aside for this. Alas, my FIFA fix needed to be quelled!

    Follow me on Twitter @Adam_PSU for all things PlayStation!

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    I don't want spoilers but after playing an hour into it I'm leaning to agreeing with your score and laughing at Edge's score. This all comes down to something pretty simple. Are you okay with the fact most, really all including those with a handful of different possible endings, narrative video games are guided experiences and can therefore handle it that Beyond does nothing to gloss over that? Or do you prefer a whole bunch of smoke and mirrors trying to make you believe you and not the game designers are in control of the experience? I really like Beyond but I'm in the former group, more out of practicality than anything. Play Uncharted 2 anyway you want, folks. It always ends the same way.

    My greatest confusion with the negative reviews, a question many others have already asked: How can the episodic The Walking Dead games be good stories and great games yet Beyond has a good story but it's a bad game?

    Ultimately something so critically polarized is good for the art form. Shakes it up. But rock bottom review scores are bad for sales and terrible for QD and Sony and run the risk of stalling greater innovation in this genre. If you can easily afford it, buy it, play it, make up your own mind. Rent it if money is an issue. But find out whether or not you like it and can see a robust future in this sort of game design rather than taking the word of critics who think they really are controlling the whole game because they turned off auto-aim.

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    This game is getting a lot more mixed/negative reviews. It seems like it lost its agency or illusion of choice so the whole experience felt more passive. SIt also seems like the story is heavily flawed, just like Heavy Rain.

    I'll still pick it up later.

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    I don't know. Maybe lost the illusion of choice but not the actual choice. My son and I both played through the demo twice each and all four times changed things up, or failed interactions, and got four substantially different gameplay experiences. One time we did get the usual ending necessary for the plot but it happened in a different place from our other play-throughs. Your gameplay either makes no difference or it's so seamless you can't tell in one pass how it makes a difference. Based on the demo, I think it may well be the latter. It's easy to play through half an hour a few times, a lot more effort to play through about ten hours several times.

    p.s. Thought I'd add, I don't want to seem like a games are always high art elitist. I'm not. I love some pure lowbrow FPS mayhem a whole lot, too. But it's like I read Philip Roth and I read Stephen King and I'll still read a Robin Cook thriller. On different days in different moods but I like them all. I guess I'm just glad there's some entertaining diversity showing in AAA monster budget games and I want it to stay that way.
    Last edited by sanfordmay; 10-08-2013 at 20:32.

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    Games like this always usually get mixed reviews. I play them for the experience. Will pick up after GTA5 and Infinite are complete.
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    This is one of those games that you either love it or you hate it.
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    I rented it today and will be playing it in a little while. I enjoyed the demo. Will post impressions in this thread later.

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    Mixed reviews. So far only a 74 on metacritic. I'll probably just wait till it goes on sale.

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    Haven't played yet, but my copy is arriving later today. Can't wait to dive in. I adore cinematic experiences in games and meaningful monotony, so I imagine I'll love Beyond. I'm the kind of guy who digs spending in-game time to choose an outfit for Ellen Page's date or clean the apartment.

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    I've played about the 45 minutes of it....and so far if anything...it's a very interesting story. They let you do just enough as the spirit....but don't let you know too much about the story or background.

    So you're sitting there going "I want to know whats going to happen!!!" lol.

    It's bascially the same controls and all as before, just with a different story. Which is fine with me. The graphics though....omg. They are unreal. Absolutely fantastic. The voice acting and lip syncing....fantastic.

    The game really draws you in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Yeah, that's pretty much the deal, though I think you can extrapolate that quote a little to all guided gameplay narrative games -- The Walking Dead episodic games again here a prime example. So it's possible you're okay with gameplay yet you just don't like police procedurals or whodunnits or serial killer stories, and you didn't like Heavy Rain by plot alone but you might like Beyond's story.

    After a little more than four hours gameplay I can at least address if not mitigate some of the complaints in the more negative reviews. I'm not going to spoil much if anything but I'm going to wrap the whole works in spoiler tags in case some people don't want to know anything whatsoever in advance.


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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Yep, pretty accurate. I'm enjoying this game alot. Even better than Heavy Rain imo.

  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Games like this always usually get mixed reviews. I play them for the experience. Will pick up after GTA5 and Infinite are complete.
    Heavy Rain got much better reviews. I liked the game and what it tried to do, so I'll definitely play Beyond. I wish they had a better writer though.

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    Played an hour or so more...so far it's pretty slow, but Heavy Rain seemed slow at the beginning too.

    The below might help you decide....

    Honestly though....*SOMEWHAT OF A SPOILER
    Last edited by Admartian; 10-10-2013 at 04:24. Reason: Added spoiler tags. :)

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    Not done with Beyond yet but its very good so far. Oh and for comparison i thought Heavy Rain was total $#@!.

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    I have numerous criticisms for David Cage and his previous projects. Indigo Prophecy was a complete mess and Heavy Rain is rather overhyped and full of flaws. But one thing I already take interest in Beyond: Two Souls is the narrative structure. It focuses on one character this time around, which makes it easier to follow and care for. It makes for a more engaging and caring experience. Though no doubt there will be more false-choice scenarios yet again.

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    I enjoyed Heavy Rain a lot, but I decided to rent this from Redbox.

    I'm a couple hours in. Not sure what to make of it yet.

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    Hmmm, playstation site gives a PS game a high score while all the other main gaming sites score it much lower?!

    I loved Heavy Rain...is this coming out on the ps4?

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    Just finished the game. I wasn't expecting to play the whole game in one sitting but it was SOOOO $#@!ING AMAZING!!! I literally could not put down the controller!

    It does start off a little slowish, but once the story starts to come together, it just takes off and pulls you in! The story is told by skipping around in Jodie's timeline. Sometimes you'll be playing as her 8 year old self, only to find yourself an hour later unfolding events of her story during her 20's as a young adult, then back again to her teens. The skipping around in the timeline left me in absolute awe as I had to know what happened to her that caused her to go from point A to months or years later to point B. What the hell has happened in the in between that lead her to where she is now! Unlike most other games, QD perfectly pulled me into Jodie's world and made me deeply care for her and her plight. I easily could say this was the most I've ever been drawn into a game before.

    Because of my connection with Jodie, the Ending sequence was the most stressful video game decision I've ever felt I had to make.....I literally sat there for 10-15minutes jaw dropped thinking, "HOLY $#@!!.....I have no idea what I want to do!!!" This was definitely not the bullcrap ending choices that we were provided with Mass Effect, I can guarantee that!

    The gameplay is for sure not of your typical game. It was very much like Heavy Rain as far as controls go, although a lot more intuitive imo (especially the melee combat when you get used to it). I seriously doubt this game will gain any awards for its gameplay. Honestly, I don't agree with any of the reviews or opinions of those knocking on this or Heavy Rain for its gameplay. Quantic Dreams "games" are not meant to really be just a game. They really are meant to be an interactive movie experience I feel. If you want amazing gameplay, there are hundreds or even thousands of titles you can pick from. Beyond, however, aimed for an interactive experience and absolutely delivered!

    I would also not really agree with "I you didn't like Heavy Rain, you won't like Beyond". They are both completely types of stories. Heavy Rain is for those who are fans of suspense, mystery, and detective stories. Beyond is for fans of science fiction, paranormal, and action.
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  26. #22
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    I'm not sure what the knock on Cage and his Beyond story conceits are any more than people can knock Levine and BioShock Infinite. Infinite is a BioShock game because it's the only way Take2 was giving Levine lots of money to make a big game. It's a completely different narrative with completely different characters set within a completely different backstory. It has no natural connection to BioShock whatsoever. I mean come on, "always a lighthouse, always a man, always a city?" That's what Take2 told Ken when he comes to them and says, "Hey, you know, I've got this great idea for my next game and it's going to cost a ton of cash and years to make." Take2 tells him, "Ken, after the critical and commercial success of BioShock, we don't care what you make. So long as there's a lighthouse, a man and a city in it." Those aren't the three constants of the BioShock multiverse. Those are marketing mandates.

    Don't get me wrong. I liked Infinite. I thought it was a pretty great game with a good story. I'm just left wondering what it could've been if nobody tried to jam a round peg in a square hole. If it didn't have to tag up hard on Rapture. If in gameplay mechanics it didn't have to have tonics... Did I say "tonics?" I meant vigors. However flawed... And I don't think Beyond's story is flawed per se. I think it's rather competent. Competent at telling a story of familiar and long-favored paranormal and science fiction concepts, but totally competent with not infrequent bright, glimmering highlights. Anyway, however flawed, at least Cage's story is his sincere narrative unfettered by a bunch of marketing dictates. Which of course is not true. Beyond is no doubt full of marketing dictates. But at least I can't so readily point them out. They're not screaming in my face every time I start up the game.

    While I'm up on this rickety soapbox, does anyone really think Rockstar isn't sick and tired of taking their stunning open world engine and gameplay mechanics and making yet another street thug story? But apparently that's all anyone wants out of them. Yeah, there was Red Dead Redemption, a popular game and indeed popularly known as Grand Theft Auto: Wild West. Take2 did let a bunch of them use their tech and mechanics, if not the open world, to make Max Payne 3, which was only a bit thuggish by GTA comparisons and otherwise kind of amazing, featuring one of the best -- if not THE best -- action set pieces in a video game and... Crickets. Nobody played it. Is everybody at Rockstar a one-trick pony -- pardon the Red Dead pun -- or do they have a dozen fully formed stories in varying genres they'd love to tell in the giant open worlds they've helped pioneer, but the guys with the checkbook won't let them?

    My biggest gripe with Beyond is one I've got for dozens of popular science fiction stories of this kind, including BioShock Infinite. Why in the world can't anyone even nod at Hugh Everett? I mean, he deserves some sort of recognition. He started this whole thing. I thought this particular Beyond scene was brilliant, but at the very least, instead of using Lost Cause, license Novocaine for the Soul or Mr. E's Beautiful Blues. Either one would have fit, really, and it's some sort of acknowledgement, though once removed, of the provenance of the material. Everett's story is short and rather sad and an entire entertainment genre, pretty much a whole industry, owes him big for one of their core themes and I swear I don't think any of them know who he is.

    Back to the Beyond criticisms, chiefly that whether you like the story or hate the story, it's not a game. Really? Because if any of the critics can tell me what a game is, I'd love to know. Used to be a game was checkers or Scrabble or Monopoly. Dungeons & Dragons, which I happen to hate but respect for what it innovated, set THAT on its ear. Then video games grew up and scrambled the whole Rubik's Cube of games and nobody knows what a game is anymore. The fact is video games aren't really games, not in a traditional sense. Game is a word we use for a composite medium cobbled together from many mediums, a medium just out of adolescence, and a medium for which we've got no other word for it but game. Because Space Invaders. Space Invaders was pretty clearly a game by traditional standards so there you go, now we got games. Fact is, we don't know what we got. Edge Magazine has no clue what we got. IGN doesn't even know what planet we're on. Joystiq needs to take a shower before it offers an opinion. And Kotaku reads like all the scripts to all the Beavis and Butthead episodes that never got made, except, you know, Kotaku's irony is unintentional. (God of War Ascension's trophy disrespects women and we think... Oh, look! Boobies!) So tell me, incisive definers of taste in the games press, what in the world makes a game? You don't know and I don't know either, so quit telling everyone Beyond is not a game. It's a game if it wants to be. It's a game merely for trying to be a game.

    Okay I'll shut up now. But the next time I read about a bunch of critics flying to Fiji to write up a game about a civil war on a snow moon of an ice planet, there's going to be trouble.
    Last edited by sanfordmay; 10-09-2013 at 12:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WretchedSoul21 View Post
    Just finished the game. I wasn't expecting to play the whole game in one sitting but it was SOOOO $#@!ING AMAZING!!! I literally could not put down the controller! It does start off a little slowish, but once the story starts to come together, it just takes off and pulls you in! The story is told by skipping around in Jodie's timeline. Sometimes you'll be playing as her 8 year old self, only to find yourself an hour later unfolding events of her story during her 20's as a young adult, then back again to her teens. The skipping around in the timeline left me in absolute awe as I had to know what happened to her that caused her to go from point A to months or years later to point B. What the hell has happened in the in between that lead her to where she is now! Unlike most other games, QD perfectly pulled me into Jodie's world and made me deeply care for her and her plight. I easily could say this was the most I've ever been drawn into a game before. Because of my connection with Jodie, the Ending sequence was the most stressful video game decision I've ever felt I had to make.....I literally sat there for 10-15minutes jaw dropped thinking, "HOLY $#@!!.....I have no idea what I want to do!!!" This was definitely not the bullcrap ending choices that we were provided with Mass Effect, I can guarantee that! The gameplay is for sure not of your typical game. It was very much like Heavy Rain as far as controls go, although a lot more intuitive imo (especially the melee combat when you get used to it). I seriously doubt this game will gain any awards for its gameplay. Honestly, I don't agree with any of the reviews or opinions of those knocking on this or Heavy Rain for its gameplay. Quantic Dreams "games" are not meant to really be just a game. They really are meant to be an interactive movie experience I feel. If you want amazing gameplay, there are hundreds or even thousands of titles you can pick from. Beyond, however, aimed for an interactive experience and absolutely delivered! I would also not really agree with "I you didn't like Heavy Rain, you won't like Beyond". They are both completely types of stories. Heavy Rain is for those who are fans of suspense, mystery, and detective stories. Beyond is for fans of science fiction, paranormal, and action.
    Well said. I haven't finished it like you but I share your opinion about this game. And like you I also enjoyed how the story jumps around to different timelines in Jody's life and this game does a really good job of making you care about her character.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 10-09-2013 at 12:33.

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    Reviews don't mean a whole lot these days its all based on opinion.Well first things first I should try out the demo from the trailers I saw this looks good and I enjoyed Heavy Rain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsterPhoenix View Post
    Reviews don't mean a whole lot these days its all based on opinion.Well first things first I should try out the demo from the trailers I saw this looks good and I enjoyed Heavy Rain.
    Well reviews have always been opinion, but traditionally in other media, more informed and learned opinion. Though I do realize I'm painting a rosy picture of the past that never truly existed in the full bloom I like to think. But still. In days of yore, critics with national or worldwide influence studied both, personally and via academic channels, their mediums of interest. They worked their ways up to being allowed to write criticism. Movie critics didn't spend nearly so much time quibbling over the film stock used as games critics do blathering on about texture pop-in. And, most importantly, criticism roles for major publications fell under the general standards of journalism's ethics and these were full-time jobs to which were attached a living wage and taking anything besides a free movie ticket or record album or advance copy of a novel was considered a big no-no.

    Games critics aren't really critics. They're marketing instruments. As were critics of other media in the past, but rarely on such a grand scale. A lot of them aren't even paid. A lot of them have no qualifications to criticize games other than that they play games. I see a whole bunch of movies but I'd make a poor movie critic. Full disclosure, I was at one time a scantly compensated, or not paid at all, critic of both books and games. I wasn't half bad at book criticism, and that's not based on self opinion -- I thought I sucked -- but on the opinions of others, sometimes even complete strangers. But I wasn't getting paid and I've got this thing against working for free. I was an awful games critic. Because it didn't take me long to learn I didn't have much leeway, maybe a couple points, in how I scored a game, the score was of paramount importance, and no matter how high I scored a game, if it wasn't a 10/10 the PR department for the game publisher was going to scream bloody murder. So I went along like everyone else and I thought that was wrong so I quit doing it.

    Games are unique for criticism because they were completely solidified as a commercial industry well before they had aspirations to art, unlike most other media. The criticism of games is constructed around the needs of the companies making the games and therefore has always been governed by the industry. I guarantee you'd have got much higher scores across the board for Beyond if Sony had paid Page and Dafoe to fly around and have drinks one-on-one with dozens of games critics doing the Beyond review. That would be a conflict of interest, of course, but it's never been looked at that way much in games criticism. Sony could have bought high review scores. They just didn't.
    Last edited by sanfordmay; 10-09-2013 at 13:43.

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