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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Yeah... only 100m sales. Moving on, 70-75 million 360 consoles sold since 2005. 26m kinect devices sold since 2010 and this is an accessory we are talking about here. I think reaching 35% market saturation in less that half the time the 360 has been out is pretty good. It's pretty obvious how its going to do a better job. Every xbox one owner is going to have a kinect device. How is that not just common logic?

    P.S. I own a kinect and not a huge fan of the device as it's not 100% reliable with its voice recognition. (Which is why i bought the darn thing) Hoping kinect 2.0 works as advertised regarding this.
    Just because everyone has the device doesn't mean everyone wants it, will use it, etc. There's barely any gaming software support, which is why they are making it mandatory to buy. I doubt there would be much of any support launching the console without any real meaningful support for the not needed peripheral.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Just because everyone has the device doesn't mean everyone wants it, will use it, etc. There's barely any gaming software support, which is why they are making it mandatory to buy. I doubt there would be much of any support launching the console without any real meaningful support for the not needed peripheral.
    You are missing the point... By packaging the device in the box then the chances of someone utilizing it and taking advantage of the technology are tenfold higher than if it was a stand alone accessory. Just because "Bob" isn't interested in kinect when buying an xbox doesn't mean he won't eventually buy some software for it or take advantage of, lets say voice recognition down the road. If you start thinking long term rather than who is going to sell more units at launch, then the inclusion of kinect makes a lot more sense.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Their vision from day one was to change the way we interact with our gaming console. When they announced that kinect was mandatory a lot of people were up in arms because they weren't comfortable with the idea. By still including the kinect in every box it gives hesitant customers time to get comfortable with kinect and figure out the advantages of its use own their own. In the end they will still achieve the same goal but they save face by not saying that you have to use the kinect every time you turn the console on. I also would like to add that no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing. People chose to be customers.

    Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification.

    EDIT: I just realized that I'm still considered a newbie here and have been keeping up with this forum since before the announcement of the ps3 or 360. Just thought that was funny.
    If Kinect was being introduced this generation you'd have a point. It's being re-introduced and people already have an idea of what the Kinect is.

    Microsoft hasn't done a good job up until now to sell consumers on the Kinect and maybe they can after the Xbox One is released but that's not going to save them from any criticism since people know what Microsoft did with the Kinect on the X360.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    If Kinect was being introduced this generation you'd have a point. It's being re-introduced and people already have an idea of what the Kinect is.

    Microsoft hasn't done a good job up until now to sell consumers on the Kinect and maybe they can after the Xbox One is released but that's not going to save them from any criticism since people know what Microsoft did with the Kinect on the X360.
    I'm not sure how that eliminates my point at all. Sure people have an idea of what the kinect for 360 is, but for one.. that's not a bad thing...two kinect for 360 was not sold as an integral part of the xbox experience.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    You are missing the point... By packaging the device in the box then the chances of someone utilizing it and taking advantage of the technology are tenfold higher than if it was a stand alone accessory. Just because "Bob" isn't interested in kinect when buying an xbox doesn't mean he won't eventually buy some software for it or take advantage of, lets say voice recognition down the road. If you start thinking long term rather than who is going to sell more units at launch, then the inclusion of kinect makes a lot more sense.
    In the real world, they are packaging it because they want to sell it without any real support at launch. If they didn't package it with the console, they wouldn't get shit for numbers. That's the real world. It makes perfect sense. Include it with the system, hike the price up, and maybe we'll release software to support it later. I'm not doubting their reason behind it. Who is it good for? Is it good for consumers that don't trust in Microsoft + Kinect? Or is it good for Microsoft who will get to sell a kinect without any real support software wise? Yeah...

    Kinect isn't an integral part of the Xbox One. It's the same thing, refined and upgraded. Microsoft knows most people won't WANT it at launch, so they are giving it away for $100 to anyone who buys the system.




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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    I'm not sure how that eliminates my point at all. Sure people have an idea of what the kinect for 360 is, but for one.. that's not a bad thing...two kinect for 360 was not sold as an integral part of the xbox experience.
    People already have experience with the Kinect and have certain expectations of Kinect 2 based off of that; even the people who didn't have first hand experience.

    Anyhow, the main point I was trying to make was that Microsoft has to sell the Kinect to people who have experience with Kinect 1 (where most of the criticism is coming from) and to those who don't see value in it. You were asking why it is a bad thing and I was trying to explain that it's based on people's experience with the previous Kinect.

    It's Microsoft's job to sell people on it. Not the people's job to be sold on it -- I hope you see where I am going with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    In the real world, they are packaging it because they want to sell it without any real support at launch. If they didn't package it with the console, they wouldn't get shit for numbers. That's the real world. It makes perfect sense. Include it with the system, hike the price up, and maybe we'll release software to support it later. I'm not doubting their reason behind it. Who is it good for? Is it good for consumers that don't trust in Microsoft + Kinect? Or is it good for Microsoft who will get to sell a kinect without any real support software wise? Yeah...
    You speak as if the kinect is a separate accessory sold for xbox one that microsoft is bundling into every box for $100 extra. (I know that last sentence is hard to follow) If that were the case, then your logic would be correct., but the kinect is xbox one. MS pitched the xbox one and kinect as one experience. Not a core experience with a kinect add on. The experience of the entire package has been tailored with kinect usage in mind. Software to take advantage of kinects unique properties will follow. In the mean time people will be using kinect for fundamental operation of the xbox one.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Kinect isn't an integral part of the Xbox One. It's the same thing, refined and upgraded. Microsoft knows most people won't WANT it at launch, so they are giving it away for $100 to anyone who buys the system.
    To me, saying that Kinect isn't an integral part of xbox one is like saying siri isn't an integral part of ios. Sure they are a feature that a person can completely avoid using if wanting to do so, but both are fully integrated into the core experience of the device as a whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    People already have experience with the Kinect and have certain expectations of Kinect 2 based off of that; even the people who didn't have first hand experience.

    Anyhow, the main point I was trying to make was that Microsoft has to sell the Kinect to people who have experience with Kinect 1 (where most of the criticism is coming from) and to those who don't see value in it. You were asking why it is a bad thing and I was trying to explain that it's based on people's experience with the previous Kinect.

    It's Microsoft's job to sell people on it. Not the people's job to be sold on it -- I hope you see where I am going with this.
    I agree... many of hardcore gamers experience with kinect has been lucklaster, mine included. I believe this isn't the case with the general public. When my friends see me control hbo go with my voice or play fruit ninja... they are blown away. I do believe that some of the demonstrations have put a lot of gamers mind to ease with how the kinect will perform in the real world. Will it become the default control mechanism for most games? I hope not.. but in the mean time it can still do some pretty cool things.
    Last edited by MarkMe2004; 10-17-2013 at 05:04. Reason: typo

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    You speak as if the kinect is a separate accessory sold for xbox one that microsoft is bundling into every box for $100 extra. (I know that last sentence is hard to follow) If that were the case, then your logic would be correct., but the kinect is xbox one. MS pitched the xbox one and kinect as one experience. Not a core experience with a kinect add on. The experience of the entire package has been tailored with kinect usage in mind. Software to take advantage of kinects unique properties will follow. In the mean time people will be using kinect for fundamental operation of the xbox one.



    To me, saying that Kinect isn't an integral part of xbox one is like saying siri isn't an integral part of ios. Sure they are a feature that a person can completely avoid using if wanting to do so, but both are fully integrated into the core experience of the device as a whole.
    It is absolutely an accessory being bundled for $100 extra. No question about that at all. I think you're a little too optimistic saying that people will use kinect for fundamental operation lol.

    Microsoft has no faith in the device. They had to go the route of MAKING anyone that wants an Xbox One HAS to buy Kinect. PERIOD.

    I doubt there is a single thing that Kinect has to be used for that can't be done without it regarding operating the Xbox One.




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  12. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    It is absolutely an accessory being bundled for $100 extra. No question about that at all. I think you're a little too optimistic saying that people will use kinect for fundamental operation lol.

    Microsoft has no faith in the device. They had to go the route of MAKING anyone that wants an Xbox One HAS to buy Kinect. PERIOD.

    I doubt there is a single thing that Kinect has to be used for that can't be done without it regarding operating the Xbox One.
    Couldn't agree more.




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    if the device is not required and you can go work with the OS through your controller then it is not necessary to bundle it with the SKU. they are doing it for a reason, it has little to do with the functionality of the console.

    i don't think the issue is confidence, i think the issue is that they want it to be for all consoles. they're not necessarily trying to sell the unit to make profits, it's a subsidiary, they are trying to gain market share with it.

    if the product had adequate amount of software and use then they would be more confident...but as a unit, they are probably very confident that it functions well and that it will do well functionally.

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    im not sold on kinect 2.

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    People have been saying this but not really understanding how much more than just a game console the One is. Hardcore gamers will probably be happier whereas the new breed of gamers will be happier with the One. You'll see a much broader appeal of the One and this is what MS is counting on. The One will sell, but to a different and more diverse group.

    Sony's true competition will end up being Steambox for hardcore gamers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    im not sold on kinect 2.

    me either. Pre order cancelled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    People have been saying this but not really understanding how much more than just a game console the One is. Hardcore gamers will probably be happier whereas the new breed of gamers will be happier with the One. You'll see a much broader appeal of the One and this is what MS is counting on. The One will sell, but to a different and more diverse group.

    Sony's true competition will end up being Steambox for hardcore gamers.
    i totally agree with that. they're still in competition with Sony but not nearly as much as they were last generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    People have been saying this but not really understanding how much more than just a game console the One is. Hardcore gamers will probably be happier whereas the new breed of gamers will be happier with the One. You'll see a much broader appeal of the One and this is what MS is counting on. The One will sell, but to a different and more diverse group.

    Sony's true competition will end up being Steambox for hardcore gamers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    i totally agree with that. they're still in competition with Sony but not nearly as much as they were last generation.
    I'd believe that if the pre-launch rumor of the xbone being a cable box had turned out true.
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    sure yea that would make them even farther but that doesn't change the fact that it's much more clear what MS' strategy is moving forward. before i didn't get it because i was assuming that they were trying to beat sony at their own game but they're not...they're taking a completely different route...a route that has a lot of money sitting there and at this point, i don't think there's a company out there that can achieve this goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    I'd believe that if the pre-launch rumor of the xbone being a cable box had turned out true.
    It's going to be a transition. You're going to see more and more integration with TV and a more divergent path from Sony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    sure yea that would make them even farther but that doesn't change the fact that it's much more clear what MS' strategy is moving forward. before i didn't get it because i was assuming that they were trying to beat sony at their own game but they're not...they're taking a completely different route...a route that has a lot of money sitting there and at this point, i don't think there's a company out there that can achieve this goal.
    MS has the money and the vision. They want a much different end game than Sony. It's going to take time but they'll get there. They are playing a different game than Sony now.
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    Honestly, I don't think it will take too long. They have the Kinect coming out the door at launch, that's the first step right there. then they need to make sure they have their TV people and they have their hardcores and casuals. there's no doubt in my mind that they can't keep them happy because they need as many people as possible...not necessarily all need to be gamers but they need to be people that want the box.

    once they have that flow going, they can focus on better kinect experiences. i think kinect is going to be a big thing this time around. i could not be more sure of it at this point.

    even if they come out with a kinect-less SKU, which seems highly unlikely to me from what i know now...but if they did, they will integrate kinect so far that there would be no reason not to. they have too much at stake to NOT do that. but that doesn't mean that controllers can't do the same...but they will give more incentives to get the kinect...might even sell it cheap.

    Kinect is the key.
    Last edited by Sufi; 10-17-2013 at 15:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Kinect is the key.
    It is, and to more than just games.
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    I know perfectly well what MS wants. It's just not going to happen with such ease. They don't hold any advantages over any of their competition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    People have been saying this but not really understanding how much more than just a game console the One is. Hardcore gamers will probably be happier whereas the new breed of gamers will be happier with the One. You'll see a much broader appeal of the One and this is what MS is counting on. The One will sell, but to a different and more diverse group.

    Sony's true competition will end up being Steambox for hardcore gamers.
    Let's say that is true, how is that a good thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    I know perfectly well what MS wants. It's just not going to happen with such ease. They don't hold any advantages over any of their competition.
    And therein lies the key. It does a bit of everything and will continue to improve over time. The fact that they are taking on multiple avenues of competition shows exactly what they have in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Let's say that is true, how is that a good thing?
    I didn't say that it was. It's just that there really won't be much of a MS vs Sony "war" anymore. MS is going a different direction than Sony. The One will be better for some and the PS4 for others. Both with different needs and wants.
    Last edited by Old Man Gamer; 10-17-2013 at 16:50.
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    All I want it for is gaming. Other than that... I don't care too much of. I hope they don't lose focus on the gaming. I'd hate to pay this much money for something and then have it like the 360 the last couple years.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man Gamer View Post
    It's going to be a transition. You're going to see more and more integration with TV and a more divergent path from Sony.
    We are already seeing it.



    MS has the money and the vision. They want a much different end game than Sony. It's going to take time but they'll get there. They are playing a different game than Sony now.
    Yep, they are going for the whole entertainment package. It's not a bad idea when you look at the age of the average gamer.

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