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    This guy says you can play games and watch entertainment without the Kinect so why doesn't MS offer a sku without Kinect? Obviously theyre passing the cost onto the consumer because they dont have confidence in Kinect selling enough as a standalone to recoup their money. If the Kinect isnt needed and therefore not an integral or essential part of the console then theres no justifiable reason to force it on your customers at $100 extra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    This guy says you can play games and watch entertainment without the Kinect so why doesn't MS offer a sku without Kinect? Obviously theyre passing the cost onto the consumer because they dont have confidence in Kinect selling enough as a standalone to recoup their money. If the Kinect isnt needed and therefore not an integral or essential part of the console then theres no justifiable reason to force it on your customers at $100 extra.
    Their vision from day one was to change the way we interact with our gaming console. When they announced that kinect was mandatory a lot of people were up in arms because they weren't comfortable with the idea. By still including the kinect in every box it gives hesitant customers time to get comfortable with kinect and figure out the advantages of its use own their own. In the end they will still achieve the same goal but they save face by not saying that you have to use the kinect every time you turn the console on. I also would like to add that no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing. People chose to be customers.

    Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification.

    EDIT: I just realized that I'm still considered a newbie here and have been keeping up with this forum since before the announcement of the ps3 or 360. Just thought that was funny.
    Last edited by MarkMe2004; 10-15-2013 at 21:15. Reason: additional comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Their vision from day one was to change the way we interact with our gaming console. When they announced that kinect was mandatory a lot of people were up in arms because they weren't comfortable with the idea. By still including the kinect in every box it gives hesitant customers time to get comfortable with kinect and figure out the advantages of its use own their own. In the end they will still achieve the same goal but they save face by not saying that you have to use the kinect every time you turn the console on. I also would like to add that no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing. People chose to be customers.

    Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification.

    EDIT: I just realized that I'm still considered a newbie here and have been keeping up with this forum since before the announcement of the ps3 or 360. Just thought that was funny.
    Wow that sounded like marketing bull$#@!. Why is it a bad thing? Because it adds $100-$150 to the cost of the console. That's a bad thing for consumers. Most of Xbox's customer's, especially those willing to pay early adopter premiums have no interest in the Kinect and would rather use that money to buy additional games. That sounds like a pretty terrible deal for the customer.

    Oh but wait, the Kinect can be a REMOTE CONTROL AND CHANGE THE CHANNEL! Wow a $150 remote control, what a $#@!ing steal! Oh wait, 99% of the world doesn't have that functionality and not even every US cable provider does it.

    Lower the price $100 and throw in Kinect for free or GTFO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typical guy View Post
    Wow that sounded like marketing bull$#@!. Why is it a bad thing? Because it adds $100-$150 to the cost of the console. That's a bad thing for consumers. Most of Xbox's customer's, especially those willing to pay early adopter premiums have no interest in the Kinect and would rather use that money to buy additional games. That sounds like a pretty terrible deal for the customer.

    Oh but wait, the Kinect can be a REMOTE CONTROL AND CHANGE THE CHANNEL! Wow a $150 remote control, what a $#@!ing steal! Oh wait, 99% of the world doesn't have that functionality and not even every US cable provider does it.

    Lower the price $100 and throw in Kinect for free or GTFO.
    Well thats what Microsoft is basically saying... Either you want what microsoft envisioned for the next console or... GTFO! If it is too expensive for you get a ps4. I don't mean that in a offensive way as I'm not made of money either. I'm just betting on that devs do something cool with the tech in the near future so it is worth it to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Well thats what Microsoft is basically saying... Either you want what microsoft envisioned for the next console or... GTFO! If it is too expensive for you get a ps4. I don't mean that in a offensive way as I'm not made of money either. I'm just betting on that devs do something cool with the tech in the near future so it is worth it to me.
    And there lies the problem for many. It's more about what MS wants and not what a great deal of consumers want.




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    @MarkMe2004:
    I think you're giving MS too much credit when you mention their "vision". As I see it they are pretty confident about kinect. They are expecting to buy over the casual market with it.
    But they're over-selling.

    [Bundling kinect with One] won't affect their sales for the first year. The die-hard fans are either gonna embrace the kinect OR swallow the bitter pill. What's happening is that regular gamers are having second thoughts and jumping the fence, and along with the regular gamers comes the casuals. This is what it's about. Microsoft are trying to prevent mass evacuation of the xbox.

    Back to their vision. Once that one year has passed and they have their share of the regular gamers and loyal fan-base, their betting on that publishers will be forced to see that people want kinect games. Thus, creating the circle, which Kyle Bosman so aptly explained on his show
    Last edited by K2D; 10-15-2013 at 22:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification.
    It's up to consumers to "justify" that decision, or not. If including Kinect and charging $100 more leads to MS losing a significant percentage of marketshare, developer support, fans, and people willing to commit to future generations of Xbox then Microsoft's choice is not only NOT justified, it's indefensible.


    I used to think Nintendo made the most stupid decision in console gaming history with the Wii U. Seemed obvious to me that the system was going to fail because Nintendo turned their back on everything that made the Wii popular.

    Now I think MS has made an equally, if not more stupid decision with the Xbox One. Like Nintendo, MS seems to have turned their back on everything that made people like the Xbox 360, namely the games and Xbox Live. Now the games seems more of an afterthought with the primary focus on watching streaming video, social networking, and using voice and gesture commands to control it.

    $100 more than the competition but that extra money doesn't translate into better gaming. I honestly don't see how the Xbox One can end up as anything other than a commercial failure.

    I'm not buying one, and I'm one of the very few people who had both the original Xbox and the 360 on launch day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Their vision from day one was to change the way we interact with our gaming console. When they announced that kinect was mandatory a lot of people were up in arms because they weren't comfortable with the idea. By still including the kinect in every box it gives hesitant customers time to get comfortable with kinect and figure out the advantages of its use own their own. In the end they will still achieve the same goal but they save face by not saying that you have to use the kinect every time you turn the console on. I also would like to add that no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing. People chose to be customers. Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification. EDIT: I just realized that I'm still considered a newbie here and have been keeping up with this forum since before the announcement of the ps3 or 360. Just thought that was funny.
    Wow that read like a MS marketing/PR statement. Of course MS "felt comfortable charging a premium", why wouldn't they when theyre instantly recouping their cost at the expensive of their customers? lol I dont see the justification, sorry.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 10-15-2013 at 22:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Wow that read like a MS marketing/PR statement. Of course MS "felt comfortable charging a premium", why wouldn't they when theyre instantly recouping their cost at the expensive of their customers? lol I dont see the justification, sorry.
    The problem was they didn't wan't to ENCHANCE the way I interact with my games. I want to buy, beat, put on a shelf, resell at my leisure.
    They said 'shrinkwrape license'. .. .no thanks , they just want to grab the market and strangle the life out of it.
    I'm done with them. There are MORE options than ever to game on, my second system will GREATLY expand my options, with either a Wii U or an Android platform, or if Apple ever makes Apple TV into something more akin to the new Android gaming systems or just one of those. Heck, after all of this I may just open my OUYA and use it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Wow that read like a MS marketing/PR statement. Of course MS "felt comfortable charging a premium", why wouldn't they when theyre instantly recouping their cost at the expensive of their customers? lol I dont see the justification, sorry.
    I seriously doubt you would see the justification if it was sitting right in front of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Their vision from day one was to change the way we interact with our gaming console. When they announced that kinect was mandatory a lot of people were up in arms because they weren't comfortable with the idea. By still including the kinect in every box it gives hesitant customers time to get comfortable with kinect and figure out the advantages of its use own their own. In the end they will still achieve the same goal but they save face by not saying that you have to use the kinect every time you turn the console on. I also would like to add that no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing. People chose to be customers.

    Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification.

    EDIT: I just realized that I'm still considered a newbie here and have been keeping up with this forum since before the announcement of the ps3 or 360. Just thought that was funny.
    You make too much sense. I've yet to meet this entity that forces people to buy this thing.....lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    You make too much sense. I've yet to meet this entity that forces people to buy this thing.....lol
    From the things I hear about it, you are quite lucky. Wouldn't it be terrible to be forced to buy a console that you never wanted in the first place. Now I can absolutely see why people who have no desire to own the Xbox One would gripe over the $100 premium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Their vision from day one was to change the way we interact with our gaming console. When they announced that kinect was mandatory a lot of people were up in arms because they weren't comfortable with the idea. By still including the kinect in every box it gives hesitant customers time to get comfortable with kinect and figure out the advantages of its use own their own. In the end they will still achieve the same goal but they save face by not saying that you have to use the kinect every time you turn the console on. I also would like to add that no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing. People chose to be customers.

    Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification.

    EDIT: I just realized that I'm still considered a newbie here and have been keeping up with this forum since before the announcement of the ps3 or 360. Just thought that was funny.
    Well written post. Good explanation of what MS is trying to do with kinect as well. You're right in that no one is forced to buy the product as a whole. What some people are objecting to is being forced to "buy" the kinect if you buy the console. I agree that it's probably not REALLY that much of a big deal. It is somewhat of a measure of the lack of consumer trust that Microsoft has however, that people are sooo leary of the "always on camera" and things like that. People just don't trust MS enough to accept a feature like this without objection or at least a great amount of concern. Not saying they'd be ok if it were Sony or Nintendo either- just saying the MS and frankly VERY FEW companies if any, have that kind of trust from consumers. Maybe Apple.

    Anyway, there's nothing "wrong" with Microsoft's vision and what they want to do. We will soon start to see how much and how many consumers in the market agree with them. And MS is fully justified in promoting their product and vision in any way they see fit.

    BTW, the "newbie" designation isn't because of the time you've been on the boards- I've been here since around the same time frame- it's because of your post count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Their vision from day one was to change the way we interact with our gaming console. When they announced that kinect was mandatory a lot of people were up in arms because they weren't comfortable with the idea. By still including the kinect in every box it gives hesitant customers time to get comfortable with kinect and figure out the advantages of its use own their own. In the end they will still achieve the same goal but they save face by not saying that you have to use the kinect every time you turn the console on. I also would like to add that no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing. People chose to be customers.

    Now I ask why this is such a bad thing. Microsoft made a choice that would differentiate it from the competition and felt comfortable charging a premium for such capability. That alone is the justification.

    EDIT: I just realized that I'm still considered a newbie here and have been keeping up with this forum since before the announcement of the ps3 or 360. Just thought that was funny.
    If Kinect was being introduced this generation you'd have a point. It's being re-introduced and people already have an idea of what the Kinect is.

    Microsoft hasn't done a good job up until now to sell consumers on the Kinect and maybe they can after the Xbox One is released but that's not going to save them from any criticism since people know what Microsoft did with the Kinect on the X360.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    If Kinect was being introduced this generation you'd have a point. It's being re-introduced and people already have an idea of what the Kinect is.

    Microsoft hasn't done a good job up until now to sell consumers on the Kinect and maybe they can after the Xbox One is released but that's not going to save them from any criticism since people know what Microsoft did with the Kinect on the X360.
    I'm not sure how that eliminates my point at all. Sure people have an idea of what the kinect for 360 is, but for one.. that's not a bad thing...two kinect for 360 was not sold as an integral part of the xbox experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    You are missing the point... By packaging the device in the box then the chances of someone utilizing it and taking advantage of the technology are tenfold higher than if it was a stand alone accessory. Just because "Bob" isn't interested in kinect when buying an xbox doesn't mean he won't eventually buy some software for it or take advantage of, lets say voice recognition down the road. If you start thinking long term rather than who is going to sell more units at launch, then the inclusion of kinect makes a lot more sense.
    In the real world, they are packaging it because they want to sell it without any real support at launch. If they didn't package it with the console, they wouldn't get $#@! for numbers. That's the real world. It makes perfect sense. Include it with the system, hike the price up, and maybe we'll release software to support it later. I'm not doubting their reason behind it. Who is it good for? Is it good for consumers that don't trust in Microsoft + Kinect? Or is it good for Microsoft who will get to sell a kinect without any real support software wise? Yeah...

    Kinect isn't an integral part of the Xbox One. It's the same thing, refined and upgraded. Microsoft knows most people won't WANT it at launch, so they are giving it away for $100 to anyone who buys the system.




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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    I'm not sure how that eliminates my point at all. Sure people have an idea of what the kinect for 360 is, but for one.. that's not a bad thing...two kinect for 360 was not sold as an integral part of the xbox experience.
    People already have experience with the Kinect and have certain expectations of Kinect 2 based off of that; even the people who didn't have first hand experience.

    Anyhow, the main point I was trying to make was that Microsoft has to sell the Kinect to people who have experience with Kinect 1 (where most of the criticism is coming from) and to those who don't see value in it. You were asking why it is a bad thing and I was trying to explain that it's based on people's experience with the previous Kinect.

    It's Microsoft's job to sell people on it. Not the people's job to be sold on it -- I hope you see where I am going with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    This guy says you can play games and watch entertainment without the Kinect so why doesn't MS offer a sku without Kinect? Obviously theyre passing the cost onto the consumer because they dont have confidence in Kinect selling enough as a standalone to recoup their money. If the Kinect isnt needed and therefore not an integral or essential part of the console then theres no justifiable reason to force it on your customers at $100 extra.
    You can see what they did to Ryse. Certainly it showed how much faith they have with Kinect even if its a mandatory item that comes with the Xbone.

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    for all we know, Ryse was probably changed to normal controller mapping so they could present it as a regular exclusive game. also they were probably trying to push Kinect more but there was a lot of backlash and they pushed (or so we think) the conference further and viola.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    This guy says you can play games and watch entertainment without the Kinect so why doesn't MS offer a sku without Kinect? Obviously theyre passing the cost onto the consumer because they dont have confidence in Kinect selling enough as a standalone to recoup their money. If the Kinect isnt needed and therefore not an integral or essential part of the console then theres no justifiable reason to force it on your customers at $100 extra.
    ^ THIS!!!! I agree 100%. Kinect is a terrible device that is being forced on the consumer, now if MS did offer a SKU without a kinect and lower the price to 400, THEN we would have a real console war! haha not trying to troll or anything but I think MS isnt doing right by consumers with their bundle

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    if the X1 was $400 withouth the kinect, MS would be making $#@! tons of money on every console sold. kinect costs a lot more than $100.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasu View Post
    ^ THIS!!!! I agree 100%. Kinect is a terrible device that is being forced on the consumer, now if MS did offer a SKU without a kinect and lower the price to 400, THEN we would have a real console war! haha not trying to troll or anything but I think MS isnt doing right by consumers with their bundle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    if the X1 was $400 withouth the kinect, MS would be making $#@! tons of money on every console sold. kinect costs a lot more than $100.
    MS: Xbox One will be break-even or profit-making from launch.
    Microsoft's Yusuf Mehdi has revealed that each sale of an Xbox One will be a break even transaction for Microsoft at the very least, suggesting that the machine is to be sold at profit from day one - a feat normally reserved for Nintendo.

    Speaking at the Citi Global Technology Conference on Tuesday, Mehdi told listeners that: "the strategy will continue which is that we're looking to be break even or low margin at worst on [Xbox One]," he explained, "and then make money selling additional games, the Xbox Live service and other capabilities on top.
    "And as we can cost-reduce our box as we've done with 360, we'll do that to continue to price reduce and get even more competitive with our offering."
    http://www.gamesindustry.biz


    you really think Kinect cost's "a lot more" than $100?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    MS: Xbox One will be break-even or profit-making from launch.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz


    you really think Kinect cost's "a lot more" than $100?
    I think you misunderstood the quote you put in bold. It's break even or lose a little. The quote is taken "mid sentence" it seems. What else did he say before that?? No where in that article, or quote, etc., does it say anything about the Xbox One launch margins, etc.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    MS: Xbox One will be break-even or profit-making from launch.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz


    you really think Kinect cost's "a lot more" than $100?
    that probably just means that the console itself since Kinect costs almost as much to manufacture as the console itself. It doesn't mean that Kinect is cheap.

    That's exactly why MS chose the ESRAM way, it's cheaper, DDR3 is dirt cheap, their CPU and GPU both aren't as powerful...yes, it probably costs way less than the PS4 to make.

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