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  1. #1
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    KZSF can handle 24 enemy AIs before “framerate drops,” says Guerrilla

    http://www.officialplaystationmagazi...ays-guerrilla/

    First of all Boltjes explains how the current Shadow Fall engine has been built from Guerilla’s previous PS3 work: “The engine is still the same,” he says, “But we had to redo a lot of it. It’s a different architecture so a lot had to be re-written”. Interestingly, “a lot of the pipeline for production is still the same”, he points out with the real changes coming from the up-scaling of assets required by the high definition demands of next-gen. “Now it’s x4, x8, because everything has to be higher resolution, has to have more details, more loading, more texture mapping. It’s a lot more work to get the production done in that sense”. Overall he claims, “we had to revamp a lot to go next-gen” but the effort involved was, “a good thing because we just want to make it better”.

    “Previously we were limited. You could
    have six or seven guys on screen, only two
    types, and it had to be at a specific range”
    With a new engine and new tech the most “obvious” improvements Boltjes highlights are, “more memory [and] more graphical power on screen”. But better looks aren’t what he considers the most important thing about the move to PS4. “For me as a game designer what I was really interested in was getting more gameplay elements on screen. More enemy types at the same time, more weapon types. Bigger areas. For me that gives us a lot more ingredients to play around with. Previously we were limited. You could have six or seven guys on screen, only two types, and it had to be at a specific range”. The ability to throw more on screen has allowed the lead designer to, “open up much more” and enabled the studio to create the more open ‘gameplay bubbles’ Killzone Shadow Fall is built around.

    With the PS4 able to push more enemies on screen I asked Boltjes if there was an upper limit? “Yes. It’s about 24,” he replied, adding “but that’s just enemy AI. And there are other types of enemy AI, lots of destructibility, lots of dynamic objects. Those have much higher limits but the amount of AI is around 24″. That leads to the next obvious question of what happens when Enemy number 25 wanders onto the battlefield. The answer from Boltjes is simple: “framerate drops”. Although he’s at pains to point out that 24 enemies requires an enormous amount of power and something that just wasn’t possible before. “They’re all autonomous, they create their own effects. They’re busy little bees” he says. You’re not just getting 24 Helghans on screen, you’re also getting all their additional effects and interactions, and it’s this that means, “as soon as you push it over [24] then we get performance issues”.
    Last edited by The Sith; 10-16-2013 at 15:03.

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  2. #2
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    Wow, you really do only post negative stuff

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyRules View Post
    Wow, you really do only post negative stuff
    Did you read the article?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    Did you read the article?
    Like Adam Boyes interview about indies many ppl only read article headline and jump straight to conclusion

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    This is far from negative.


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    That's a lot of mofos trying to kill you all at once!

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    It somewhat sounds negative but it really isn't when you think about it. How many different types of enemies with each having a different weapon, different looks, and different AI actions do you usually fight at the same time in most other games?

    I dare you to give an example of fighting so many different enemies at the same time.

    The title should have been "...can handle 24 different enemy AI types before...".

    Imagine you enter a huge room (in the game) that has enemies on turrets, with rocket launchers, with shotguns, with basic guns, heavy soldiers, several ATACs, guys with flamethrowers, grenade launchers, snipers, stealth guys. Then there's allies with all kinds of different weapons. I could go on...
    Almost everyone will say: buy console that has games that you want, and those who say otherwise are ignorant.

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  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by on the rocks View Post
    That's a lot of mofos trying to kill you all at once!
    lol, thats probably the most negative part of the article....we're going to get destroyed in this game lol

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    Beats duplicated NPC's with the same animations and routines

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  12. #10
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    yup, looks like the ps4's bad news monkey didnt actually read the article


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    Did you read the article?
    Yes, it doesn't come off as really positive

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    Pretty impressive.
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  16. #13
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    It'll only get better from here. In two years they'll have 100+ AI on screen before frame rate drop issues rear their ugly head.

  17. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyRules View Post
    Yes, it doesn't come off as really positive
    how 24 AI routes is bad??? its not about numbers on screen, its more about how complex enemy behaviour is. what do you prefer 100 stupid enemies or 20 but realy smart ones?

  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireSol View Post
    how 24 AI routes is bad??? its not about numbers on screen, its more about how complex enemy behaviour is. what do you prefer 100 stupid enemies or 20 but realy smart ones?
    More of the framerate issue, it's not even going to be 60fps, but I think hearing about the dip would of been one of those things better not talked about like exposing a weakness. All in all it's not a big deal or anything, I will still be getting the game

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  19. #16
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    Wasn't it that singleplay is 30FPS while multiplayer is 60FPS?
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  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    Wasn't it that singleplay is 30FPS while multiplayer is 60FPS?
    Yes

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  22. #18
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    probably the reason for the 30fps is like it was stated in the article...The enemies are going to be doing more things than standing and straffing. Chances are they will be doing things while in the gun fight as well as out of the gunfight or right before a gun fight. Then add more effects going on while you have 18+ (example) enemies shooting at you and doing other things.

    Now the multiplayer has 60fps probably because there is no AI or enemies doing stuff in the middle of battle or anything. it's more like a run & gun mp wise just like most games out there. I can see why the sp is 30fps

    nothing negative at all about that article.

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  24. #19
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    Sounds good! 24 enemies are a lot!


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    I have a felling if there were only 24 A.I. on xbone people would never let them hear the end of it. It would be the meme of the generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyRules View Post
    Yes, it doesn't come off as really positive
    If you look at games now i'd say the ballpark figure for AI at once is 2-5 tops.
    So 24 is really impressive.

    And by 2-5 I don't mean only 2-5 bots can shoot/interact with you at once, but only 2-5 can have unique identities. ie. Someone might flank you, someone will shoot at you from behind a box, etc

    Thinking about it even 5 sounds pretty high, you could have 31 bots all shooting at you from behind boxes and that is considered as just 1 AI routine. 24 routines at once will shake things up a lot.

  27. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    If you look at games now i'd say the ballpark figure for AI at once is 2-5 tops.
    So 24 is really impressive.

    And by 2-5 I don't mean only 2-5 bots can shoot/interact with you at once, but only 2-5 can have unique identities. ie. Someone might flank you, someone will shoot at you from behind a box, etc

    Thinking about it even 5 sounds pretty high, you could have 31 bots all shooting at you from behind boxes and that is considered as just 1 AI routine. 24 routines at once will shake things up a lot.
    Yes I understand this, I'm just saying that talking about framerate dropping(like talking about a weakness)is not overly positive, it could be the most advanced game of all time, but to me it just comes of a bad business practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shafty- View Post
    yup, looks like the ps4's bad news monkey didnt actually read the article
    Yep. All he saw was KZ SF and framerate drops. lol

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    Bing.com is not good for you Sith. Google is better try it
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 10-17-2013 at 14:51.
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    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
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    1/ isn't that your search history?
    2/ whats that go to do with KZ ai?

    Funny....



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    Last edited by mynd; 10-17-2013 at 09:38.

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