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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah View Post
    Does anyone know if this would apply to digital downloads in any way? I guess it wouldn't unless it downloaded the game in chunks.
    the games run before they're completely installed, if that's what you were trying to get at.

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    It's only caches some parts of the game like loading areas stuff like that it has no effect on hard drive life span.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    It's only caches some parts of the game like loading areas stuff like that it has no effect on hard drive life span.
    if the drive is being used, it's effecting its life span.

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    Now this makes ask will the cache be temporary and be automatically removed after playing the game, then do the whole cache again when you start the game again?


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    If you're done playing a certain game, just delete that game cache.

  6. #31
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    i don't think cache is meant to be permanent but it will likely be there until something else is written over it OR it may be that there's a certain amount of the HDD dedicated to cache and once that fills up, it's over written.

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    Can't wait this is awesome info

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    So with today's Official PS4 FAQ, has this been clarified? If I bought two games, say KZ and Knack, if I try one and then the other, does the second one overwrite the first cache? Or will they each have separate caches if space is permitted? If it is just one cache that means the 500gb hd technically is like a 450gb, since you need to account for cache space?
    Last edited by atomicnuke; 10-31-2013 at 00:39.

  9. #34
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    Can someone explain the "cache" or send me a link that does? I can't read the entire thread, so forgive me if it's already been explained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicnuke View Post
    So with today's Official PS4 FAQ, has this been clarified? If I bought two games, say KZ and Knack, if I try one and then the other, does the second one overwrite the first cache? Or will they each have separate caches if space is permitted? If it is just one cache that means the 500gb hd technically is like a 450gb, since you need to account for cache space?
    There's a topic on /r/PS4 (reddit) that apparently says that it does install. It's basically a rehash of a Shuhei tweet.

    Still not clear (for me) though.


    EDIT:
    I'm guessing this is the right HDD for us?
    http://www.impc.co.nz/products/al_0j...y&ref=pricespy
    Last edited by Admartian; 10-31-2013 at 03:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    It isn't clear about the caching... If it's doing it in the background, meaning not having to wait for a 1GB install, etc., then this is awesome info.

    Meaning, I put the disc in, and start playing, and it's caching data as I'm playing. Never had to wait for an install, etc. That will be a HUGE bonus. HUGE.

    PS Store. Doesn't matter if they say it's going to be changed. It better be changed for the good.

    you're right because the current ps3 store ****ing blows....and when they say cache do they mean "to store in advance" so it lessens load times?



  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Can someone explain the "cache" or send me a link that does? I can't read the entire thread, so forgive me if it's already been explained.
    I don't think it has been properly explained.
    But my amateur guess would be that cache means it sets aside space for the game to copy into, rather than an install where it does not allocate anything and copies on the fly hoping said space still exists.
    ie. With a cache you will not get interrupted with a message stating you are out of space, cause it is already allocated for. An install you will as nothing is set aside.

    Hope that made sense :-/

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    It's an install.

    The only difference is that the installation happens while you play, which is why Sony keeps calling it "caching". But yes, the data is installed and it stays there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Can someone explain the "cache" or send me a link that does? I can't read the entire thread, so forgive me if it's already been explained.
    Caching is the temporary saving of data. The cache is usually an item which has faster access speed than the source, but it's also smaller. Data in cache is eventually evicted when something else needs to be cached, but often the data that is cached is accessed multiple times and thus making it more efficient. The data can also be pre-fetched into the cache, which is effectively what the PS4 is allowing for.

    This is a very broad sense of what caching is and there are many intricate details that could be gone into depending on where in system and what level of caching is being referred to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    It's an install.

    The only difference is that the installation happens while you play, which is why Sony keeps calling it "caching". But yes, the data is installed and it stays there.
    It's not an install, an install takes up the entire space on the HDD until it's manually uninstalled. There is a reserved amount of HDD that is used to cache any game that's being played that isn't installed, this IS a cache by that very definition. It doesn't take up extra space. And needs to be re-cached if the data is evicted (usually when another game is played, but could also be when going between different segments of a very large game.)

    HDD Reliability:

    As for the reliability/lifetime effect on a HDD. I don't think this will have a significant impact even if you're playing a different game every hour for the life of the device. HDD's today are designed for extreme life cycle read/writes.

    DVRs have been doing this for years. My TiVo HD boxes never stop recording, they are always buffering 2 HD video channels simultaneously and have been doing so for about 7yrs straight now. With an exception of about 6 days when Hurricane Ike took out my power.

    I can honestly say that I think it's not realistic to come close to having the write cycle accesses to a PS4 HDD with this caching come even close to what's happening in my DVRs.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    It's not an install, an install takes up the entire space on the HDD until it's manually uninstalled.
    And that is precisely what this does. It installs the game.


    It is a CACHED INSTALL. That means the game starts, then while the bluray disk would normally be idle it begins the process of installing the game to the hard drive in the background while you play. The install does not happen in a whole process, it's cached first so if you stop playing and turn off the console it doesn't corrupt the install. Once you start playing again the install will continue until the required parts are all fully installed to the hard drive. After that the game will load from the hard drive when you start playing.

    It absolutely is an install and it has to be manually deleted. It does NOT delete automatically.



    For instance, straight from Sony themselves:

    If I rent a game disc, and then decide I want to buy it digitally, can I use the mandatory install to avoid downloading it and just activate my license?

    No, in this example you would have to delete the disc install data and fully install the digital version of the game.
    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/...north-america/


    And there you have it. If you rent a game it installs the game from the disk to the hard drive. If you then buy the same game digitally you have to manually delete the disk install before fully installing the DD version.



    The way Sony is using the word "cache" is misleading. The only temporary data is the cache of the installation files that is being used for background installation of the game.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 10-31-2013 at 20:45.

  16. Likes Ixion wishes they had posted this first.
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  17. #41
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  19. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    And that is precisely what this does. It installs the game.


    It is a CACHED INSTALL. That means the game starts, then while the bluray disk would normally be idle it begins the process of installing the game to the hard drive in the background while you play. The install does not happen in a whole process, it's cached first so if you stop playing and turn off the console it doesn't corrupt the install. Once you start playing again the install will continue until the required parts are all fully installed to the hard drive. After that the game will load from the hard drive when you start playing.

    It absolutely is an install and it has to be manually deleted. It does NOT delete automatically.



    For instance, straight from Sony themselves:

    If I rent a game disc, and then decide I want to buy it digitally, can I use the mandatory install to avoid downloading it and just activate my license?

    No, in this example you would have to delete the disc install data and fully install the digital version of the game.


    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/...north-america/


    And there you have it. If you rent a game it installs the game from the disk to the hard drive. If you then buy the same game digitally you have to manually delete the disk install before fully installing the DD version.



    The way Sony is using the word "cache" is misleading. The only temporary data is the cache of the installation files that is being used for background installation of the game.
    There's an option to do a full install from the Disc, it's not mandatory to do this. If you don't perform a full install it caches the data on the HDD as you go along to improve performance access performance.

    That's what Shuhei's Tweet was about. And that's what Sony has stated in the past. This DOES NOT conflict with the statement in the blog about needing to uninstall an existing full install from a disc that you rented if you decided to purchase a Digital copy of it, and then install the digital copy.

    The full install from the disc requires you to still put the game disc in for validation. The digital download version omits this. And apparently they didn't do anything to enable support of later having a separate paid digital download and no longer needing the disc. After all, why would they when this is an extremely rare case at best.
    Last edited by TAZ427; 10-31-2013 at 22:42.



  20. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    There's an option to do a full install from the Disc, it's not mandatory to do this. If you don't perform a full install it caches the data on the HDD as you go along to improve performance access performance.

    That's what Shuhei's Tweet was about. And that's what Sony has stated in the past. This DOES NOT conflict with the statement in the blog about needing to uninstall an existing full install from a disc that you rented if you decided to purchase a Digital copy of it, and then install the digital copy.

    The full install from the disc requires you to still put the game disc in for validation. The digital download version omits this. And apparently they didn't do anything to enable support of later having a separate paid digital download and no longer needing the disc. After all, why would they when this is an extremely rare case at best.
    Wait, so after you install say a disc version (whether rented or bought), and you buy the digital version, you still have to have the disc in? Or did you mean the opposite?

    /comprehension fail on my part

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Wait, so after you install say a disc version (whether rented or bought), and you buy the digital version, you still have to have the disc in? Or did you mean the opposite?

    /comprehension fail on my part
    Neither - This is what Completely Averaged had quoted. It was a quote inside the quote so it didn't automatically get included. I updated my post to include the inner quote.

    Putting it back into the context it should make sense now. But basically he quoted the FAQ's statement that had asked if they rented the game, did a full install and later wanted to purchase the game via digital download, could it use the same install (i.e. not have to download the game again.) The answer to which was no, they would have to uninstall the disc version and then download the digital version.



  22. #45
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    I hope there aren't any installs (except the option if you want). In that case 500gb would probably be enough for me all gen.

    Don't Steal. Don't Molest Little Children. Don't Deal Drugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    There's an option to do a full install from the Disc, it's not mandatory to do this.
    That's nice.


    Now read my quote about what Sony says again................... Did they mention optional full installs, or was the question about MANDATORY installs?


    Let me help you out here....

    If I rent a game disc, and then decide I want to buy it digitally, can I use the mandatory install to avoid downloading it and just activate my license?

    No, in this example you would have to delete the disc install data and fully install the digital version of the game.
    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/...north-america/



    If you put a game disk in a certain amount of data is REQUIRED to be installed. And make no mistake about it, it's an install, not a cache. It is NOT automatically deleted or cleared, you are required to delete it manually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    That's nice.


    Now read my quote about what Sony says again................... Did they mention optional full installs, or was the question about MANDATORY installs?


    Let me help you out here....



    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/...north-america/



    If you put a game disk in a certain amount of data is REQUIRED to be installed. And make no mistake about it, it's an install, not a cache. It is NOT automatically deleted or cleared, you are required to delete it manually.
    Ok, I see where you're confused. What they're referring to as caching the game IS NOT the mandatory install portion that are 1-2GB typically (actually those were PS3 numbers but I don't see the mandatory install sizes growing much on PS4.)

    What they are referring to is caching the other 40GB's of the game to the HDD as you're playing through it (not sure how much HDD space they've allocated to cache games - but requiring a minimum of a 160GB HDD is fairly telling in and of itself.) I assumed this was self evident but I guess I should have clarified.

    I assumed everyone already knew that a minimum install was needed.



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    I hope you feel good and silly now.


    Call it installation or call it caching, but the bottom line is that you will have to save large chunks of PlayStation 4 games to the system's hard drive. It's not an option. It's mandatory on Sony's next-gen system. Today, at a stylish waterfront hotel in New York City that's been taken over by Sony for all things PS4, the system's lead architect, Mark Cerny, explained just how these requirements work.

    If you are playing a disc-based game, the system will begin caching the disc when you put it in the console and get ready to play. The game is saving part of itself to the system's hard drive. The amount of data that has to be saved before you can start will vary per title.

    Cerny said that for the launch game he directed, Knack, users should only have to wait 10s of seconds to play the game. After that, as you play, the game will stream more content to the console's 500GB hard drive. Knack will use 37GB of space overall, as noted on the game's box. Obviously, it won't take many games to fill the console's hard drive.

    http://kotaku.com/how-mandatory-game...ps4-1462283797




    Well well well, looks like I was 100% RIGHT!


    Last edited by Completely Average; 11-12-2013 at 02:02.

  26. #49
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    it can still be looked at as caching because you don't have to really wait that long. the problem with installation is that you have to wait for it to load. this is sort of like caching that doesn't disappear unless you want it to.

    i think it's a good thing and it will allow for better games. i definitely think the 360's lack of HDD held back gaming because they had to focus on the game so that it ran on a console only with a disc...look at what they could do with a console when HDD was available (Uncharted, TLOU).

    i'm not worried about this. this is necessary and PC games wouldn't be where they are without being installed.

    this part though, i don't get, "Not surprisingly, Microsoft's Xbox One requires installation from Blu-Ray, too, and only runs games off the hard drive."

    fairly sure that's not the case?

  27. #50
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    It installs in the background. Done.




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