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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Yea but not everywhere, even the US will struggle to do that. Places like Greece are in so much debt it is likely the last thing on their list. And again the people have to accept it, if they cannot fully accept digital music then these same people + many others will not accept digital gaming. (File sizes being a huge reason)

    This isn't a minority thing either, the people who have the decent connections are in the minority. Would be suicide for either MS, Ninty or Sony to go full digital.



    Even if we were given 2 months+ to preload for the slower users the datacaps will still be an issue.
    Absolutely. Like I've said (either in this thread or another) - it's not being against DD per se; it's the technology and bandwidth given to us consumers at a competitive rate that will be the biggest factor in demand for it.
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    Even if I had no iPad which gives me a much wider range of apps running full screen with direct touch input, I'm struggling to see the appeal of multitasking in this way on a TV. Even sitting at PC monitor gaming distance (which wouldn't work with Kinect) what do I want to look at while playing a game, a walkthrough? That's going to be hard to read AND control in a sidebar.

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    Stupid double posting thing.
    I will find something intelligent to put here...


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  5. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banderas View Post
    Even if I had no iPad which gives me a much wider range of apps running full screen with direct touch input, I'm struggling to see the appeal of multitasking in this way on a TV. Even sitting at PC monitor gaming distance (which wouldn't work with Kinect) what do I want to look at while playing a game, a walkthrough? That's going to be hard to read AND control in a sidebar.
    Couldn't you do two equal screen sizes side by side? If that's possible? Or if not equal, then I'd say have the game at the bigger screen, and the walkthroguh at a smaller one?

    Anyone know?
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  6. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    That $500 price tag aint doing MS no favors either.
    I bought a freaking 3DO for $800 in 1990s money. I figure I can drop $500 next month on the gamble there'll be something after Ryse, Dead Rising 3, Titanfall and at least one Halo game. And if there's a full-on, proper and exclusive Alan Wake 2, I'll call that worth the $500 all by itself. I don't see a flop out of XOne. But if I couldn't afford or wouldn't afford both consoles, it would have been PS4 no question. Even at a $500 price point and still no camera bundled in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Absolutely. Like I've said (either in this thread or another) - it's not being against DD per se; it's the technology and bandwidth given to us consumers at a competitive rate that will be the biggest factor in demand for it.
    I'll just go ahead and say it: For games, they can have my discs when they pry them from my cold, dead hands. I'll buy PSN and other indie games DD, but if there's a disc in a pretty blue box, I'm buying the pretty blue box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanfordmay View Post
    I bought a freaking 3DO for $800 in 1990s money. I figure I can drop $500 next month on the gamble there'll be something after Ryse, Dead Rising 3, Titanfall and at least one Halo game. And if there's a full-on, proper and exclusive Alan Wake 2, I'll call that worth the $500 all by itself. I don't see a flop out of XOne. But if I couldn't afford or wouldn't afford both consoles, it would have been PS4 no question. Even at a $500 price point and still no camera bundled in.
    We'll see where the average consumer stands on this come November I guess.

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    Well, at least we can put to bed the question on so many other threads about whether there would be noticeable differences in games at launch due to the hardware differences. That being the case, won't surprise me if there are performance issues with the OS and snap features on the XB1 under heavy load.

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  10. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphuff View Post
    Well, at least we can put to bed the question on so many other threads about whether there would be noticeable differences in games at launch due to the hardware differences. That being the case, won't surprise me if there are performance issues with the OS and snap features on the XB1 under heavy load.
    Yep exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Yea, but what was e3 like and who talked more tv there? Plus who has just announced Vita tv and looking into a live tv streaming service? Seems to me they both are pushing the same agenda.


    IRONRANGER6 Tapatalk
    lol your hilarious

    vita tv is OPTIONAL, not necessary. and its not as if Sony has been focusing all their attention on it. your trying waaaay to hard there bud.

    way too hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Yea but not everywhere, even the US will struggle to do that. Places like Greece are in so much debt it is likely the last thing on their list. And again the people have to accept it, if they cannot fully accept digital music then these same people + many others will not accept digital gaming. (File sizes being a huge reason)

    This isn't a minority thing either, the people who have the decent connections are in the minority. Would be suicide for either MS, Ninty or Sony to go full digital.



    Even if we were given 2 months+ to preload for the slower users the datacaps will still be an issue.
    I think you greatly underestimate advancements that will be made over the next 6 years. You are acting like the situation today, will apply to 2019, when that is clearly absurd.

    Just look at the advancements we have had in cell phones over the past 6 years. We went from basic phones which could make calls, texts and take $#@!ty pictures to advanced smartphones that can perform certain functions previously reserved for personal computers while accessing data connections that are faster than entry level home broadband speeds.

    Super fast broadband is essential for future economic growth and development. The current status quo will not stand. The situation will change and improve.

    Also do you not think compression algorithms will not improve so that download sizes will wither maintain their present size or possibly even decrease?

    I have no idea where you are coming up with this music example. Itunes (along with other online music stores) took over cd sales a long time ago. There is no way to argue that we haven't fully accepted digital music.

    And you are acting like there is nothing comparable to downloading console games for a DD example. Have you forgotten about Steam (along with the other pc game download services like GOG or Origin)? PC gamers have fully embraced those services, years ago downloading 10+GB games. Hell it's gotten to the point that most PC games aren't even sold on discs anymore.

    Hell many laptop computers don't even ship with a built in optical drive anymore.

    To really think we will be using discs for console games till ~2025 / the PS6 is naive at best and utterly ridiculous at worst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Super fast broadband is essential for future economic growth and development. The current status quo will not stand. The situation will change and improve.

    Also do you not think compression algorithms will not improve so that download sizes will wither maintain their present size or possibly even decrease?

    And you are acting like there is nothing comparable to downloading console games for a DD example. Have you forgotten about Steam (along with the other pc game download services like GOG or Origin)? PC gamers have fully embraced those services, years ago downloading 10+GB games. Hell it's gotten to the point that most PC games aren't even sold on discs anymore.
    .
    Can you provide an example of new compression algorithms actually being used to lower the size of files? ever? Files have only ever gotten larger. This is a similar argument that was going around when the 360 was announced to use DVD and procedural textures were going to be the go to way of steming game sizes. That didn't happen.

    Yes Steam is a good example of a DD service for games, but what is going to happen when games are hovering around the 40GB mark? We are already seeing that with launch games for the next gen. For the vast majority, peoples internet speeds and monthly quotas simply aren't up to the task of what the next wave of games are going to bring. You are correct though that internet speeds and capacities are important for economic growth, but it is going to take some time for the base average to be able to handle the requirements for next gen games. We may even see PC based interest of Blu-ray pic up if game sizes balloon out to crazy sizes. Certainly the pc games that do still get hard copy launches are going to have to deal with either 5+ DVDs per case or start offering blu-ray options like we saw with the cross over from CD to DVD.

  14. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    I think you greatly underestimate advancements that will be made over the next 6 years. You are acting like the situation today, will apply to 2019, when that is clearly absurd.

    Just look at the advancements we have had in cell phones over the past 6 years. We went from basic phones which could make calls, texts and take $#@!ty pictures to advanced smartphones that can perform certain functions previously reserved for personal computers while accessing data connections that are faster than entry level home broadband speeds.
    Phones are not a good example though as they are far cheaper and much easier to distribute.
    Take Australia for example, our old Labour party was trying to get fast broadband out here and remove our copper wiring in exchange for Fibre (to allow for faster broadband) but after 3 or so years barely anyone still has fibre and it is costing billions. Now that we have Liberals in charge they are looking to abolish it and keep us on copper.

    And as far as Economic issues go Australia is considered one of the few that is not in a bad situation and can afford it. Imagine how other countries say any in Europe would struggle to afford the costs.

    Super fast broadband is essential for future economic growth and development. The current status quo will not stand. The situation will change and improve.
    I agree, I just don't think the world can afford it.

    Also do you not think compression algorithms will not improve so that download sizes will wither maintain their present size or possibly even decrease?
    There is a good chance but I don't expect to see 50% or more drops.
    25GB is still a lot to download for the average user even if it did manage to drop 50%

    I have no idea where you are coming up with this music example. Itunes (along with other online music stores) took over cd sales a long time ago. There is no way to argue that we haven't fully accepted digital music.
    They took over but music is still selling on CD's.
    Digital downloads may one day take over but discs will also still sell because companies want as much money as possible.

    And you are acting like there is nothing comparable to downloading console games for a DD example. Have you forgotten about Steam (along with the other pc game download services like GOG or Origin)? PC gamers have fully embraced those services, years ago downloading 10+GB games. Hell it's gotten to the point that most PC games aren't even sold on discs anymore.
    Most games on steam aren't 10GB+ and they have just 65million users.

    Hell many laptop computers don't even ship with a built in optical drive anymore.
    That's cause everything is preinstalled, they aren't made for gaming.

    To really think we will be using discs for console games till ~2025 / the PS6 is naive at best and utterly ridiculous at worst.
    Remember those beyond 2000 tv shows? Everyone thought we'd have flying cars and world peace by now. Didn't happen.

  15. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    I think you greatly underestimate advancements that will be made over the next 6 years. You are acting like the situation today, will apply to 2019, when that is clearly absurd.
    No - he is saying that the advancements likely won't be as big as you claim. meaning, not that they won't change, but will the change be enough to warrant DD being touted as the only thing. Let alone the focus.

    At least that's what I got from it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Phones are not a good example though as they are far cheaper and much easier to distribute.
    Take Australia for example, our old Labour party was trying to get fast broadband out here and remove our copper wiring in exchange for Fibre (to allow for faster broadband) but after 3 or so years barely anyone still has fibre and it is costing billions. Now that we have Liberals in charge they are looking to abolish it and keep us on copper.

    And as far as Economic issues go Australia is considered one of the few that is not in a bad situation and can afford it. Imagine how other countries say any in Europe would struggle to afford the costs.



    I agree, I just don't think the world can afford it.



    There is a good chance but I don't expect to see 50% or more drops.
    25GB is still a lot to download for the average user even if it did manage to drop 50%



    They took over but music is still selling on CD's.
    Digital downloads may one day take over but discs will also still sell because companies want as much money as possible.



    Most games on steam aren't 10GB+ and they have just 65million users.



    That's cause everything is preinstalled, they aren't made for gaming.



    Remember those beyond 2000 tv shows? Everyone thought we'd have flying cars and world peace by now. Didn't happen.

    Pretty much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    No - he is saying that the advancements likely won't be as big as you claim. meaning, not that they won't change, but will the change be enough to warrant DD being touted as the only thing. Let alone the focus.

    At least that's what I got from it.
    Yep, this is what i'm trying to say.
    I'm not against DD, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Can you provide an example of new compression algorithms actually being used to lower the size of files? ever? Files have only ever gotten larger. This is a similar argument that was going around when the 360 was announced to use DVD and procedural textures were going to be the go to way of steming game sizes. That didn't happen.

    Yes Steam is a good example of a DD service for games, but what is going to happen when games are hovering around the 40GB mark? We are already seeing that with launch games for the next gen. For the vast majority, peoples internet speeds and monthly quotas simply aren't up to the task of what the next wave of games are going to bring. You are correct though that internet speeds and capacities are important for economic growth, but it is going to take some time for the base average to be able to handle the requirements for next gen games. We may even see PC based interest of Blu-ray pic up if game sizes balloon out to crazy sizes. Certainly the pc games that do still get hard copy launches are going to have to deal with either 5+ DVDs per case or start offering blu-ray options like we saw with the cross over from CD to DVD.
    So then are we supposed to accept 100GB+ games for the PS5? it doesn't seem feasible to continue on that tangent, if storage mediums/telecommunications infrastructure doesn't improve significantly.

    And no, no such compression exists today (that I know of). But so far, we haven't exceeded the game sizes that were found on the PS3? (Hell the ps4 blu-ray drive tops out at 50GB, iirc. no bdxl support).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    Phones are not a good example though as they are far cheaper and much easier to distribute.
    Take Australia for example, our old Labour party was trying to get fast broadband out here and remove our copper wiring in exchange for Fibre (to allow for faster broadband) but after 3 or so years barely anyone still has fibre and it is costing billions. Now that we have Liberals in charge they are looking to abolish it and keep us on copper.

    And as far as Economic issues go Australia is considered one of the few that is not in a bad situation and can afford it. Imagine how other countries say any in Europe would struggle to afford the costs.



    I agree, I just don't think the world can afford it.



    There is a good chance but I don't expect to see 50% or more drops.
    25GB is still a lot to download for the average user even if it did manage to drop 50%



    They took over but music is still selling on CD's.
    Digital downloads may one day take over but discs will also still sell because companies want as much money as possible.



    Most games on steam aren't 10GB+ and they have just 65million users.



    That's cause everything is preinstalled, they aren't made for gaming.



    Remember those beyond 2000 tv shows? Everyone thought we'd have flying cars and world peace by now. Didn't happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    No - he is saying that the advancements likely won't be as big as you claim. meaning, not that they won't change, but will the change be enough to warrant DD being touted as the only thing. Let alone the focus.

    At least that's what I got from it.

    Pretty much.


    Going by what I'm seeing in the US, (which has lagged behind a lot of other developed countries regarding broadband internet) I can't fathom 100+ megabit connections not being available (by ~2019) in any decently populated area in the country (10k+ population).

    And considering we have geographical. political, regulatory, business and financial problems slowing things down it is hard to fathom how other (smaller) countries with only 1 or 2 of the above issues would have such a hard time making improvements in this area.

  18. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    So then are we supposed to accept 100GB+ games for the PS5? it doesn't seem feasible to continue on that tangent, if storage mediums/telecommunications infrastructure doesn't improve significantly.

    And no, no such compression exists today (that I know of). But so far, we haven't exceeded the game sizes that were found on the PS3? (Hell the ps4 blu-ray drive tops out at 50GB, iirc. no bdxl support).







    Going by what I'm seeing in the US, (which has lagged behind a lot of other developed countries regarding broadband internet) I can't fathom 100+ megabit connections not being available (by ~2019) in any decently populated area in the country (10k+ population).

    And considering we have geographical. political, regulatory, business and financial problems slowing things down it is hard to fathom how other (smaller) countries with only 1 or 2 of the above issues would have such a hard time making improvements in this area.
    the PS3 tops out at 50GB discs, the PS4 we dont know, but the fact sheet yesterday suggest it can handle larger discs then the PS3.


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    Another video of UI and snap mode. It looks pretty awesome.


  20. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Going by what I'm seeing in the US, (which has lagged behind a lot of other developed countries regarding broadband internet) I can't fathom 100+ megabit connections not being available (by ~2019) in any decently populated area in the country (10k+ population).

    And considering we have geographical. political, regulatory, business and financial problems slowing things down it is hard to fathom how other (smaller) countries with only 1 or 2 of the above issues would have such a hard time making improvements in this area.
    And the US is supposed to be one of the better ones in the western world. AU & NZ (which are part of the EU market) are far and away behind. And when you hear in podcasts (such as Chille's anecdote for instance) that the UK is better, but nowhere near good enough for games that are 15GB+, then you're not left with a market that is ready to accept it.

    Yes blame whatever you need to blame for the infrastructure for not being there.

    But the point is, it is unlikely that they'll be there - not in the numbers that companies like Sony, MS, EA, Activision etc to risk losing customers because they just simply cannot adapt, no matter how much they want to.

    I don't see AU/NZ/UK/US having South Korea speeds in 6 years time - not in the numbers that make it a norm, and not in the numbers that warrant feasible use by consumers.
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    I'm lost, what is this thread about?

    @admartian.
    By 2015 I'll have 100mb at least coming to the house. You should as well.
    Our government hasn't spent millions on fiber rollout for nothing, its so you and I can finally own those Americans in COD.
    Last edited by mynd; 10-31-2013 at 22:32.

  22. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm lost, what is this thread about?
    Broadband speeds, bro. Keep up.


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  23. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Broadband speeds, bro. Keep up.


    I'm counting down the days till 2015 and Fibre.
    I can opt for 5mb wifi right now if I wanted to BTW...
    Last edited by mynd; 10-31-2013 at 22:54.

  24. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm counting down the days till 2015 and Fibre.
    I can opt for 5mb wifi right now if I wanted to BTW...
    Yeah but 5mb NZ or worldwide data too.

    Also, I think Yanks and Brits will laugh at that speed.

    Personally, it's more to do with bandwidth (and to an extent, being throttled) limits. I can deal with leaving a download and doing something else, but I don't want to have to "budget" my downloads. If I buy a 30gb game on steam, and buy a couple of PS4, PS3, Vita titles, I want to download them and not care if I'm over the cap. That's something most kiwis can't say.

    I know Slingshot throttles you for unlimited and I've heard iffy things about Orcon as well (the only two with semi-reasonable priced "unlimited" broadband).

    But who knows how this Kim Dotcom thing turns out.
    Last edited by Admartian; 10-31-2013 at 22:59.
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  25. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm counting down the days till 2015 and Fibre.
    I can opt for 5mb wifi right now if I wanted to BTW...
    I would die if I had 5 Mb. o_0


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    Quote Originally Posted by PBM View Post
    I would die if I had 5 Mb. o_0
    lol exactly. And you guys complain about your internet connections. That's a "luxury" here my friend.
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