Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 4 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 122
  1. #76
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    no dude, so far that feature is still cancelled.
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You do, just like you do if you it installed to your hard drive on the 360.
    Its spins for about 10 seconds.
    I guess that should read "installation and verification".

    also even if the port is dirty and quick, that resolution is that elephant in the room everyone's ignoring.

    you can't give me another example on the consoles where one title had that big of a difference in resolution and the power of these consoles were about the same.

    a dirty and quick port would be the difference between 720p and 600p.

  2. #77
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I didn't say it wasn't weaker. I said i haven't seen any evidence of it being "way weaker". Not from what ive seen. Some people act like we are seeing games that are a generation apart in the visuals. There hasn't been one game on either console that has blown away the other in visuals.
    umm the difference we've seen so far is the resolution, how could you possibly see the difference on youtube videos?

    But that's the thing. we don't know why. All we know is COD has been confirmed to be 720p on one console and native 1080p on the other. No one credible has given any details why, have they?
    you're never going to hear anything about it officially. there are certain things that could be the reason which have all been discussed.

    I never said it wasn't a difference. It could be power or it could be tools. we just don't know for sure.
    that's a load of bs if you know anything about the console development. there hasn't been a time in the history of consoles where the tools were so bad that one version was able to output twice the resolution than the other. Even the Xbox didn't do that with Halo 1 vs any PS2 game and there was a clear difference in power between the two.

    You could be right or wrong about that. It all depends I guess. Its on the devs.
    yeah, exactly, it's on the devs and they came out with the versions that we have now. tools really would bring about small efficiencies but the big bulk of efficiencies are going to happen on both consoles. for some reason people are thinking that there's going to be a huge difference in X1 games and not PS4 games moving forward.

    For COD, yes. But they never said why, did they?
    they don't need to lol. look at all the other games on the X1! we know this is not an isolated incidence!

    No it's not.
    hey, i can't stop anyone from having fun with 720p games. your money.
    You guys are just caught up in all this hoopla about resolutions. There will be 720 games this gen on both consoles and they will be better than some of the 1080p ones.
    Of course resolution has nothing to do with how good the game "plays"...it's about how good it "looks".

    We don't have many clues about much of anything right now because it's too early to be saying all this stuff. There are games on xbox-one and ps4 that are 1080p. That's all we really know right now.
    again you're simplifying things. There isn't a game on X1 right now that is 1080p + 60fps that would be considered taxing compared to other next-gen games. the only way we can have any comparison is to compare a game that is on both consoles and we have games right now that are.

    it's not about 1080p and 60fps...you could theoretically have that on xbox/ps2 and certainly ps3/360.

    Sufi, all you are saying is what has been regurgitated around the web and forums. No information has been release on what it cost to build these consoles. $#@!, we just barely got final specs for one not too long ago. Yes, we know that DDR5 is more expensive, but beyond that there could be other reasons why ms chose their type of RAM. You are just speculating.
    we do know that Kinect 2 is not nearly as cheap to make as Kinect 1. it's not far off to think that Kinect 2 might be more than $150 at launch when Kinect 1 was that much just a couple of years ago. considering how much more the kinect 2 can do.

    Maybe, maybe not. We will all have to wait and see what they bring down the road years from now.
    we don't have to wait years to see that. we can see this in about a year.

    I'm dreaming because i said people should wait before we start all the doom and gloom....lol The point is that no one here really knows what these consoles are truly capable of.
    of course we don't know what they're capable of but if you think that there's going to be a big difference between the multiplats moving foward, you're going to be disappointed. having 2x the resolution isn't a joke, it's not something that happens due to tools.

    Neither has even launched yet and we still have years before they reach their full potential. All i'm saying is people should just wait before we start setting stuff in stone.
    reaching full potential isn't going to change anything, they are both going to go up equally if not the PS4 more as we have seen that Sony devs always exploit the hardware more and spend more on development.

    i'm not setting anything in stone but really if there's such a huge difference in "multiplats" when they could've easily just made all the versions the same, you're not going to see better results with exclusives. do you realize what PD is going to do with the PS4? the console is going to walk all funny when they're done with it.

  3. #78
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,418
    Rep Power
    166
    Points
    209,241 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malt View Post
    Did I say that? Don't try to twist my words, I was mearly pointing out that a jump from 720 to 1080 is more than the 1/3 quoted by the poster I quoted..
    Wasn't having a go at you, just expanding on your statement. As its clear the res difference is greater than the power difference something else is in play here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

  4. #79
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Wasn't having a go at you, just expanding on your statement. As its clear the res difference is greater than the power difference something else is in play here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
    resolution is not directly correlated to the TFs. in fact, they don't even have to change the resolution, they could've made them both 1080p but taken out details and objects.

  5. #80
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,418
    Rep Power
    166
    Points
    209,241 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!

    Xbox One Resolutiongate: the 720p fallout. PS4thewin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    resolution is not directly correlated to the TFs. in fact, they don't even have to change the resolution, they could've made them both 1080p but taken out details and objects.
    Actually it kinda is. The only difference is the time it takes to render a frame. Which clearly cant be guaranteed to 1/60th of a second with what they are trying to do. So removing stuff generally means you can bring that back.
    But the "time it takes" can be related to the amount rops, bandwidth speed, number of texture units a whole cast of options.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
    Last edited by mynd; 11-02-2013 at 05:09.

  6. #81
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    umm the difference we've seen so far is the resolution, how could you possibly see the difference on youtube videos?
    Exactly. Just different resolutions. Not final game code.

    you're never going to hear anything about it officially. there are certain things that could be the reason which have all been discussed.
    Exactly. Speculation.

    that's a load of bs if you know anything about the console development. there hasn't been a time in the history of consoles where the tools were so bad that one version was able to output twice the resolution than the other. Even the Xbox didn't do that with Halo 1 vs any PS2 game and there was a clear difference in power between the two.
    No it's not. It's possible that MS could be behind on the dev tools. I would say it's more likely than not.

    yeah, exactly, it's on the devs and they came out with the versions that we have now. tools really would bring about small efficiencies but the big bulk of efficiencies are going to happen on both consoles. for some reason people are thinking that there's going to be a huge difference in X1 games and not PS4 games moving forward.
    And you are speaking from your experience with ps4 and xb1 tools?


    @digitalfoundry the AO on Xbox One was one of the fixes that didn't make it into the review copy but will be in day1, same tech as PS4/PC








    they don't need to lol. look at all the other games on the X1! we know this is not an isolated incidence!
    Exactly. look at all the other games. They look just as good or even better regardless of the resolution. So what does that say?

    hey, i can't stop anyone from having fun with 720p games. your money.
    Why would you? we are having fun now with games that are less. Don't bet on not seeing 720 games this gen. You will be probably be disappointed.
    Of course resolution has nothing to do with how good the game "plays"...it's about how good it "looks"
    .
    Who said it did?

    again you're simplifying things. There isn't a game on X1 right now that is 1080p + 60fps that would be considered taxing compared to other next-gen games. the only way we can have any comparison is to compare a game that is on both consoles and we have games right now that are.
    Yes a comparison of games in their final state on both consoles. We don't have that.


    we do know that Kinect 2 is not nearly as cheap to make as Kinect 1. it's not far off to think that Kinect 2 might be more than $150 at launch when Kinect 1 was that much just a couple of years ago. considering how much more the kinect 2 can do.
    We don't know anything for sure. All we heard is one dev said Kinect cost as much as the console itself. Outside of that we don't know what the bill of materials look like. That is unless you know. Please enlighten us if you do?

    we don't have to wait years to see that. we can see this in about a year.
    lol... dude,it's not gonna happen in a year. Tools will continue to get better long after that.

    of course we don't know what they're capable of but if you think that there's going to be a big difference between the multiplats moving foward, you're going to be disappointed. having 2x the resolution isn't a joke, it's not something that happens due to tools.
    reaching full potential isn't going to change anything, they are both going to go up equally if not the PS4 more as we have seen that Sony devs always exploit the hardware more and spend more on development.
    And you know this? Lets wait and see.


    i'm not setting anything in stone but really if there's such a huge difference in "multiplats" when they could've easily just made all the versions the same, you're not going to see better results with exclusives. do you realize what PD is going to do with the PS4? the console is going to walk all funny when they're done with it.
    I'm not setting anything in stone either. I'm saying we should all wait before we do. people on this forum have already proven time and time again that when it comes to this stuff they really don't know what they're talking about. Remember xb1 specs were supposed to be set in stone, but we all know what happened not too long ago. Just wait till games and console release before we start giving away championship rings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    resolution is not directly correlated to the TFs. in fact, they don't even have to change the resolution, they could've made them both 1080p but taken out details and objects.
    See that's exactly what i mean when i say people don't know what they're talking about. You were speculating once again. Leave that stuff to the one's who actually know about it.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-02-2013 at 06:30.

  7. #82
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Exactly. Just different resolutions. Not final game code.
    I'm sorry...do you think these games aren't going to have these resolutions once the games launch? Pretty sure we had a confirmation from the developer about COD.
    Exactly. Speculation.
    No that's not true. We have "factual" information that we can take and put them together and it makes sense. X1 is "factually" less powerful than the PS4 in both RAM, GPU and overall TFs. There have been statements by the "developers" that aren't exclusive to either side, say that they see a 50% power difference in both consoles, PS4 being the more. We are now getting "confirmations" that PS4 will sport better resolutions in both COD:Ghosts and BF4.

    Those are all facts at this point. Having 2x the resolution is a big deal, it takes a hell of a lot more power to do this. Having 2x resolution can bring a top tiered PC to its knees. it doesn't matter what you're "seeing" in these youtube videos, the difference is going to be there for people that have big screens.

    No it's not. It's possible that MS could be behind on the dev tools. I would say it's more likely than not.
    so are we speculating now? lol. yes, we already know that dev tools are part of the reason for this but again, you fail to understand that "never" in the history of video gaming, have dev tools caused a game to have "half" the resolution of the competitor's version. Go ahead and believe what you will but it seems absurd to me to think that when we have so many other factual information telling us something else, that you refuse to believe even in the possibility of it.

    Everything has been laid out to you and MS are giving you half the information themselves. Honestly, I don't know what some of you guys do here when half the point of being on the forums is to bring together the pieces...not sit around wait years to find out what may or may not happen. You're crazy if you think MS spent the same amount of money as Sony did on the "console". You're insane to think that Kinect 2 is $100 and it's not cutting into the budget that could've been used to strengthen the X1 console. You don't understand the concept of jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none. These are all business concepts, it doesn't matter WHO the company is, you can't subsidize a console to that extent, the number "do not" add up.

    Knowing how MS works, they are going to make profits on the X1 right away, they have shown "consistently" that they will not subsidize their products, in fact, their proprietary peripherals are highly overpriced. That's how they were able to make profits last gen. They don't sell their consoles for a loss for very long, they do not subsidize heavily like Sony would. Guess what happened to Sony when they tried to heavily subsidize Blu-Ray? You can't make money off that.

    So if for one second, you think that Kinect 2 is not eating into the budget for this whole project then you're gullible. There's no possible way that X1 is nearly as expensive to make as PS4. And when a product can be made much cheaper, it cannot have about the same specifications...which we know for a fact looking at the spec sheets!

    You know what, I'll still give them benefit of the doubt. Maybe the X1 has some magical powers that we don't know about. Maybe Kinect 2 is heavily subsidized and MS doesn't intend to make profits on the hardware, for the rest of this generation. maybe the X1 is the master of all. So what are you going to say if Titanfall turns out to be 720p? They developed it for one platform, surely they can utilize some of its power.

    And you are speaking from your experience with ps4 and xb1 tools?
    the inclusion of AO still doesn't explain the difference in resolution.

    and dude, that's what happens in every single generation. It doesn't matter what it is. that's the natural cycle of how developers grow on a platform. are you saying that we may not see efficiencies moving forward? lol really? the burden of proof is on you for this one.

    as for the smaller scaled efficiencies, what i meant by that is that "if" dev tools are to be blamed for the X1, then that will improve in the coming months but if you think PS4 is going to sit still until then, you're sorely incorrect in your thinking. That's what i meant by the big bulk, the natural progression that has happened every generation. that's going to happen on both consoles regardless of anything. but what i said was that technically X1 will improve slightly more because it had issues to fix. that doesn't mean that it will get better or on par with the PS4. the power difference will still be there.

    Exactly. look at all the other games. They look just as good or even better regardless of the resolution. So what does that say?
    i'm sorry, do you not understand the difference between resolutions? the game doesn't have to look better or worse, having better resolution just means more clarity and lesser jaggies. you can't see this until you have the games and you watch them on the big screen. and it doesn't have to be side-by-side to tell the difference either, if you're an enthusiast, you can tell the difference right away.

    you're confused because you're comparing exclusives to multiplatform games. yes, exclusives have more potential to have better graphics, that's needless to say. until we have an equivalent exclusive on the PS4, we can't really compare an exclusive to anything, all it shows it that the console has the potential to reach this far...ok but how does that compare to the competition? we don't know.

    but knowing you, you will take this as a positive twist and say, "Well, then it's set, we don't know it yet so X1 still has a chance! ^_^" not really lol. considering what we have on the spec sheet, the surprising difference on the multiplat games (that no one could've possibly guessed as it is such a large difference, at least on one of the games), it's fair to assume that there will be a big difference between GT7 and Forza 6. theoretically, multiplats (especially cross-gen games) are "never" supposed to have differences this big.

    720p vs 900p is still about 50% more pixels. that is unbelievable on a cross-gen game where one would not expect much difference at all regardless of a significant power difference. this clearly tells us that it can't all be tools and has to be what we saw on paper! and heard from devs!
    Why would you? we are having fun now with games that are less. Don't bet on not seeing 720 games this gen. You will be probably be disappointed.
    you think so? like i said before, if a game cannot do at least 900p on the PS4, I'm not buying it unless it's a special sort of game that i can not possibly skip. i have been playing BF3 for years on my big screen and now 4...no i cannot live with 720p on a big screen. you must play on a small TV or a monitor.
    .
    Who said it did?
    lol you did, i quoted you! let me quote you again:
    You guys are just caught up in all this hoopla about resolutions. There will be 720 games this gen on both consoles and they will be better than some of the 1080p ones.
    yea, ok, we all know resolution has nothing to do with how good a game is going to be or play...resolution is about looks.

    Yes a comparison of games in their final state on both consoles. We don't have that.
    so again, you think that X1 version of COD will magically have the same resolution as the PS4 version when the dev themselves confirmed it? gotcha. I guess the same will happen on BF4 as well.

    We don't know anything for sure. All we heard is one dev said Kinect cost as much as the console itself. Outside of that we don't know what the bill of materials look like. That is unless you know. Please enlighten us if you do?
    it takes a little bit of common sense to understand that if the kinect costs anywhere near the console then either 1) it's subsidized and the console does cost at least $350 to make (which would probably make it about the same or more as the PS4 which is absurd to think)

    also this way, they cannot ever make the money back. because if the console is about $350 to make then the kinect 2 needs to be about $350 as well. and it's safe to say that Kinect 2 doesn't cost as much as $350. It likely costs somewhere between $200 to $250 considering how much MS charged for Kinect 1 and how long ago and how much the tech has progressed.

    and it's not crazy to think that X1 is a cheap console to make because it doesn't have the specs to show otherwise!

    lol... dude,it's not gonna happen in a year. Tools will continue to get better long after that.
    you don't get what i'm talking about. Both consoles are going to get better over time, what I'm speaking about is the relative difference between the both. X1 will likely improve more than PS4 in the next year if there are issues with the dev tools and it should anyway because X1 doesn't have a straight up setup.

    And you know this? Lets wait and see.
    lol, you continue to defy natural progression of how hardware works. if you think X1 is going to improve continuously more than the PS4 over years then you do not comprehend any of this. forget the power difference, X1 will need the development support that PS4 has in order to even reach its potential.

    Did 360 ever reach its potential? I don't think so, did PS3, hell yes higher than 360. why? Developer support.

    If it weren't for developers like QD, PD, and ND, PS3 would have never reached its full potential (or near it i should say). no let's not "wait and see", let's try to understand concepts.

    Let's say in some crazy realm, X1 does eventually surpass the PS4 in overall performance after years, no no let's do this scenario lol. Even then it would not be worth talking about because i'd rather have the power available now in games than later. That's one reason I always liked the way MS designed the 360, it was utilized to whatever extent much earlier than the PS3. First it took a couple of years for PS3 to get on par with 360 exclusives then it took another couple of years to get slightly better, then another two+ to get noticeably better ones. i don't agree with that strategy.

    honestly i'd rather have the 360 setup even though 360 didn't have more power...just that PS4 is the 360 of this generation but HAS MORE POWER.

    I'm not setting anything in stone either. I'm saying we should all wait before we do. people on this forum have already proven time and time again that when it comes to this stuff they really don't know what they're talking about. Remember xb1 specs were supposed to be set in stone, but we all know what happened not too long ago. Just wait till games and console release before we start giving away championship rings.
    lol firstly, you forget that when myself and several other members mentioned that X1 will never be on par with PS4 in multiplats, everyone was like, how? now that we have proof of that, you want to wait longer? because those games are going to change in the next two weeks? Alright buddy!

    way to throw out a generic statement, yes people are wrong on forums over time and time...what's the news here? let's stick to this subject. Xbox One specs did not change much, don't kid yourself, some of you didn't want to believe that it even had DDR3 RAM, you were in hopes of an upgrade, all it did was up the Mhz on the GPU by what, 53Mhz?...big whoop.

    you only need to understand numbers and what those numbers mean in order to understand that there's no way X1 is going to ever reach PS4 in performance...the only way it can is if you choose two different games that are not mutually exclusive to the consoles and that is because of target, budget, time, cost.

    basically, there's no possible way that anyone on the X1 can outdo (equivalent game) what ND and PD are about to do with the console...add QD to that.

    See that's exactly what i mean when i say people don't knokw what they're talking about. You were speculating once again. Leave that stuff to the one's who actually know about it.
    what am i speculating? lol. please tell me where i'm wrong in that. TF does not equal to what the resolution would be, we can guess what it may likely be. the best way to compare two consoles is to either have equivalent exclusives where both companies spent a great deal of time, money and skill to create a game, that is of the same genre...or a straight up raw comparison (with usually the least amount of differences) would be multiplats.
    Last edited by Omar; 11-02-2013 at 15:32.

  8. #83
    Super Elite
    FireSol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Moscow
    PSN ID
    FireSol
    Posts
    2,243
    Rep Power
    66
    Points
    10,891 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    IF ms have some kind of secret sausage then why resolution was dropped for Ryse, DR3 and KI?? when developers talked about DR3 they sad that they trying to achive 30fps. and in result game has dinamic resolution and im sure that is not 1080p-900p. Same with KI, to reach 60 fps they dropped resolution from 1080p to 720p
    Last edited by FireSol; 11-02-2013 at 16:05.

  9. Likes Omar, mistercrow likes this post
  10. #84
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    Thousands? for now. I dont want one cause they creep me out. I hate anything with a always one camera. Hell when I am done with my webcam I disconnect it. But thats personal preferences. But as for apps being on a game console... Thats not the point . the point is if your a game console your first priority should be games and making the hardware easy to develop games for. Microsoft isnt doing that from my observation. If they did they would have known that gamers trade games and also not everyone has internet broadband. They also wouldn't be relying heavily on cloud tech that isnt even proven yet. Microsoft is forgetting a important thing about business and that is always think about the customer.

    Chances are sooner or later there will be a xbox one in my house seeing as I have kids that like the 360's they have but for me personally i will first be getting a PS4. I think the investors of Microsoft needs to really look deep at who is running their company because they should have had a much stronger position.
    sure you don't like it but the idea is that most people don't know and don't care. i know i must sound like an elitist right now but most people on this planet are dumb and they are sheep and they deserve to be controlled, manipulated and exploited. ok maybe a little harsh but you know there are certain people that were meant to be run over by a bus? oh yea, there are, don't believe me? go to thenyc.com (or don't go there...i wouldn't want anyone to do this).

    so anyway, back to the point. there will be people that will not care about being filmed and some will not even know or comprehend. That's what MS hopes that happens and it will happen.

    who reads TOC nowadays? $#@! i don't lol. if it weren't for news, i would be oblivious to all of this.

    so considering all of that, yes, i think the console gives you something unique and it's going to work, it doesn't matter what we "gamers" think because MS isn't selling this console particularly to "gamers" only. they are banking a large portion of their user base to be the ones that not only Sony can't go for but even Nintendo can't anymore. They are trying to get a good chunk of both and they will. that's all there is to it.

  11. #85
    Dedicated Member
    thanatos144's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stuart, Florida, United States
    PSN ID
    thanatos144
    Posts
    1,169
    Rep Power
    13
    Points
    11,062 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    sure you don't like it but the idea is that most people don't know and don't care. i know i must sound like an elitist right now but most people on this planet are dumb and they are sheep and they deserve to be controlled, manipulated and exploited. ok maybe a little harsh but you know there are certain people that were meant to be run over by a bus? oh yea, there are, don't believe me? go to thenyc.com (or don't go there...i wouldn't want anyone to do this).

    so anyway, back to the point. there will be people that will not care about being filmed and some will not even know or comprehend. That's what MS hopes that happens and it will happen.

    who reads TOC nowadays? $#@! i don't lol. if it weren't for news, i would be oblivious to all of this.

    so considering all of that, yes, i think the console gives you something unique and it's going to work, it doesn't matter what we "gamers" think because MS isn't selling this console particularly to "gamers" only. they are banking a large portion of their user base to be the ones that not only Sony can't go for but even Nintendo can't anymore. They are trying to get a good chunk of both and they will. that's all there is to it.
    Its a game console not game centric. This is why they are getting their ass handed to them.

  12. #86
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by FireSol View Post
    IF ms have some kind of secret sausage then why resolution was dropped for Ryse, DR3 and KI?? when developers talked about DR3 they sad that they trying to achive 30fps. and in result game has dinamic resolution and im sure that is not 1080p-900p. Same with KI, to reach 60 fps they dropped resolution from 1080p to 720p
    and at least two of those games should be at 1080p with those details, even in the beginning of this generation. Ok maybe DR3 wasn't made with X1 in mind but Ryse? KI? Ryse is using a cross-gen engine but what about KI?

    there are several problems here, the 10% GPU reservation for OS/Kinect, GPU/RAM already not as strong, overall lower TF, ESRAM needed to achieve higher performance vs developer skill, tool issues ... ? yeah, there are more *absolute* hardware limitations than software-related issues.

    i would not expect things to get significantly better relative to the PS4. overall they will both get better.

  13. #87
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    Its a game console not game centric. This is why they are getting their ass handed to them.
    from a gamer perspective, yes. they are somewhat not caring about the core here. but remember when nintendo did worse than that and still made billions? the difference here is that MS will likely continue somewhat of the success Nintendo could not.

    we think this all matters but it doesn't. let the dust settle first and wait for the profits made by MS. maybe they won't disclose the profits made through ads? i don't know much about accounting but i feel like it would be stupid to disclose that they made tons of money through kinect ad revenues because that's likely a big part of what they want to achieve.

    i guess even if we knew about it, we can't change the casual consumer's mind anyway.

  14. #88
    Dedicated Member
    thanatos144's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stuart, Florida, United States
    PSN ID
    thanatos144
    Posts
    1,169
    Rep Power
    13
    Points
    11,062 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    from a gamer perspective, yes. they are somewhat not caring about the core here. but remember when nintendo did worse than that and still made billions? the difference here is that MS will likely continue somewhat of the success Nintendo could not.

    we think this all matters but it doesn't. let the dust settle first and wait for the profits made by MS. maybe they won't disclose the profits made through ads? i don't know much about accounting but i feel like it would be stupid to disclose that they made tons of money through kinect ad revenues because that's likely a big part of what they want to achieve.

    i guess even if we knew about it, we can't change the casual consumer's mind anyway.
    They are not selling consoles ether. their business plan is failing.

  15. #89
    Super Elite
    FireSol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Moscow
    PSN ID
    FireSol
    Posts
    2,243
    Rep Power
    66
    Points
    10,891 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    and at least two of those games should be at 1080p with those details, even in the beginning of this generation. Ok maybe DR3 wasn't made with X1 in mind but Ryse? KI? Ryse is using a cross-gen engine but what about KI?
    DR3 was 360 game, as i remember Ryse was Kinect game for 360, i think only KI was build with X1 in mind

  16. #90
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    They are not selling consoles ether. their business plan is failing.
    yes, initially that's accurate and the reason being it's $500 and really, they can't go lower than that if they include the kinect and their plans wouldn't work at all if they took out kinect. hence why they removed the requirement but they still didn't remove it from the bundle. the day they take out kinect is the day i will believe that they are changing their plans drastically.

    i guess what they achieve to do is to sell it to the masses once the price lowers. another thing i think (wild guess) is that maybe MS (whole of it) wrote the gaming division a check for Kinect 2, seeing that it has so much potential to bring back billions in ad revenues.

    in that respect, they should be able to lower the price quickly moving forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireSol View Post
    DR3 was 360 game, as i remember Ryse was Kinect game for 360, i think only KI was build with X1 in mind
    ah ok so i guess the other two, we can somewhat give a break but they really don't look so taxing on the console compared to other games so they should be able to do 1080p.

  17. Likes John Willaford likes this post
  18. #91
    Master Sage
    Two4DaMoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    115
    Points
    18,479 (75,576 Banked)
    Items Naughty DogPS3 SlimNaughty DogUser name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    "We purposely didn't target high end hardware because it's all about the games. Oh wait, we did a boost to our specs. Sony bragged about the cell and our games look just as good or better. All our games will output 1080p"

    I'm not trolling above. I can back every single thing up by multiple links. No wonder why MS diehards are having a hard time believing that the xbone is weaker than the ps4. MS giving false hope that they'll be evenly matched or surpass the ps4 smh.
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 11-02-2013 at 17:50.


  19. Likes VayMasters86 likes this post
  20. #92
    Praetor Illuminatus
    Guest
    Thread should end on this note:

  21. #93
    Extreme Poster
    mistercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    PSN ID
    mistercrow
    Posts
    25,535
    Rep Power
    167
    Points
    169,417 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    "We purposely didn't target high end hardware because it's all about the games. Oh wait, we did a boost to our specs. Sony bragged about the cell and our games look just as good or better. All our games will output 1080p" I'm not trolling above. I can back every single thing up by multiple links. No wonder why MS diehards are having a hard time believing that the xbone is weaker than the ps4. MS giving false hope that they'll be evenly matched or surpass the ps4 smh.
    Yep exactly. I always knew that MS hardware decision would come back to bite them game wise but I didnt expect it to be immediately. Its only going to get worse for Xbone as developers start creating for next gen only and really start pushing their graphics engines and creating new more demanding ones.

  22. #94
    Ultimate Veteran
    Lefein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    34
    Posts
    23,057
    Rep Power
    195
    Points
    112,232 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    For the record, I expected it to be immediate. You don't hamstring game developers with slow RAM (DDR3, come on), tear a chunk out of GPU power for multiple operating systems, struggle to release tools on time and have bad driver support in development then turn around and expect to run as well as the PS4.

    It seems like every time I speak up people get mad at me just for being a realist these days. Seriously, an eleventh hour upclock of the GPU that only makes up for what gpu throughput you have lost to the OS should have been a sign to the known universe that this thing was not up to par.. I'll let the games speak for me now. Opening my mouth seems to be more trouble than it's worth. But, seriously.. 32 ROPS vs 16. People need to learn to math.
    Last edited by Lefein; 11-02-2013 at 20:24.

  23. Likes John Willaford likes this post
  24. #95
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,418
    Rep Power
    166
    Points
    209,241 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    and at least two of those games should be at 1080p with those details, even in the beginning of this generation. Ok maybe DR3 wasn't made with X1 in mind but Ryse? KI? Ryse is using a cross-gen engine but what about KI?

    there are several problems here, the 10% GPU reservation for OS/Kinect, GPU/RAM already not as strong, overall lower TF, ESRAM needed to achieve higher performance vs developer skill, tool issues ... ? yeah, there are more *absolute* hardware limitations than software-related issues.

    i would not expect things to get significantly better relative to the PS4. overall they will both get better.
    I'll get back to you in the next couple of days, I'm still doing a bit of research into all of this, but I can tell you so far:

    1/ Its not DDR3
    2/ It is related to ESRAM
    3/ I have no idea if it will get significantly better.

  25. #96
    Dedicated Member
    John Willaford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Owings Mills, MD
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,082
    Rep Power
    21
    Points
    424,879 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'll get back to you in the next couple of days, I'm still doing a bit of research into all of this, but I can tell you so far:

    1/ Its not DDR3
    2/ It is related to ESRAM
    3/ I have no idea if it will get significantly better.
    I've been trying to tell you since July, this isn't something you need to figure out!!!!

    I can think of ALOT that doesn't fit into 32MB.

    With system performance, LOTS of FAST RAM is king, not a small cache.

    The games outstrip the capacity of the cache to be effective, and when that happens, the Cache becomes just another LATENCY in the system going from place to place, which is why i've stressed that the ESRAM needed to accelerate certain calculations and other features.

    I'm just trying to be direct so the spread of GIVE can stop... it's the other thing MS spreads.
    They spread FUD about others products and GIVE about their own... and that is

    Grandious Idealized Visions of Excellence ...

    and sometimes they seem to do it using PC, because XBONE has Windows, so it's the same thing.

    http://wccftech.com/microsoft-pc-bat...-xbox-promo-2/

    PS: Yes I did just invent the term, at least on the Internet, it's existed for far to long though in real life!
    Last edited by John Willaford; 11-02-2013 at 22:41.

  26. #97
    Forum Overseer

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    32,707
    Rep Power
    198
    Points
    136,980 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'll get back to you in the next couple of days, I'm still doing a bit of research into all of this, but I can tell you so far:

    1/ Its not DDR3
    2/ It is related to ESRAM
    3/ I have no idea if it will get significantly better.
    oh i know this issue at the moment isn't likely related to DDR3, i meant that as a whole...DDR3 is definitely a limiting factor on the X1 rather than not.

  27. #98
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,418
    Rep Power
    166
    Points
    209,241 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    I've been trying to tell you since July, this isn't something you need to figure out!!!!

    I can think of ALOT that doesn't fit into 32MB.
    The only thing devs are likley to be using it for is as a framebuffer at this point.
    With system performance, LOTS of FAST RAM is king, not a small cache.

    The games outstrip the capacity of the cache to be effective, and when that happens, the Cache becomes just another LATENCY in the system going from place to place, which is why i've stressed that the ESRAM needed to accelerate certain calculations and other features.

    I'm just trying to be direct so the spread of GIVE can stop... it's the other thing MS spreads.
    They spread FUD about others products and GIVE about their own... and that is

    Grandious Idealized Visions of Excellence ...

    and sometimes they seem to do it using PC, because XBONE has Windows, so it's the same thing.

    http://wccftech.com/microsoft-pc-bat...-xbox-promo-2/

    PS: Yes I did just invent the term, at least on the Internet, it's existed for far to long though in real life!
    I know you ve been saying this for a while, but its not at all that simple, you only need put you framebuffer in the 32mb of esram, of which their is plenty of space to do that..
    Its extremely unlikely anyone has used the esram for anything other than that at this point.
    Given we have seen no difference in raw texture or polygon count, we can discount DDR3 as having any issues with being able to feed the GPU, so really, you don't NEED to put anything in the ESRAM other than your out put.

    Theoretically, this isn't an issues, hell its a massive win, but somewhere something has got a bit screwed up, there is enough room in that 32mb of ram to store 4 1080p 32 bit buffers, that's enough for 2x MSAA even.

    This is before we even start into the custom compression the GPU/ESRAM can handle.
    No there is something else at play here. It's certainly not the amount of ESRAM.

    Is the other O/S putitng it's oar in? Is the 3 display planes screwing things up?
    I dunno.
    Last edited by mynd; 11-02-2013 at 23:36.

  28. #99
    Dedicated Member
    John Willaford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Owings Mills, MD
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,082
    Rep Power
    21
    Points
    424,879 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    The only thing devs are likley to be using it for is as a framebuffer at this point.


    I know you ve been saying this for a while, but its not at all that simple, you only need put you framebuffer in the 32mb of esram, of which their is plenty of space to do that..
    Its extremely unlikely anyone has used the esram for anything other than that at this point.
    Given we have seen no difference in raw texture or polygon count, we can discount DDR3 as having any issues with being able to feed the GPU, so really, you don't NEED to put anything in the ESRAM other than your out put.

    Theoretically, this isn't an issues, hell its a massive win, but somewhere something has got a bit screwed up, there is enough room in that 32mb of ram to store 4 1080p 32 bit buffers, that's enough for 2x MSAA even.

    This is before we even start into the custom compression the GPU/ESRAM can handle.
    No there is something else at play here. It's certainly not the amount of ESRAM.

    Is the other O/S putitng it's oar in? Is the 3 display planes screwing things up?
    I dunno.
    Start thinking about all of the processes required to build the frames... your concentrating on the last step and applying post to them... the choke point isn't in post.

    Think of all the cycles lost to DDR3, think about why you only see cheap business cards with DDR3. Think about WHY you want at least 2GB of GDDR5 on a vid card these days... it's not just a Texture cache, and a FAST one at that. (12 CU doesn't help the cause much either).
    Last edited by John Willaford; 11-03-2013 at 00:19.

  29. #100
    Supreme Veteran
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Down Under
    Age
    42
    Posts
    18,418
    Rep Power
    166
    Points
    209,241 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Start thinking about all of the processes required to build the frames... your concentrating on the last step and applying post to them... the choke point isn't in post.
    I would agree with you that maybe the GPU was constraining things (and probably is in BF4) if we were seeing games simply blowing our minds, but no one could level that accusation at COD with a straight face.

    At the end of the day, one of the reasons to drop the res is because you simply cant do what you want to do in 1/60th of a second. But considering, BF4 is doing a hell of a lot more than COD:Ghosts is, could we really say thats the reason Ghosts is struggling to push out its frame at 60fps?
    That leaves us with something else taking up that time.
    I am wondering, if there is a screw up somewhere with copying from ESRAM back into the DDR3 at the end of each frame, which you would have to do, because you generally ping pong from display plane to display plane in the GPU.
    (i.e display one frame while drawing the next).
    This is what the move engine is supposed to be capable of doing, while the GPU is writing the next frame.
    Otherwise, if they aren't doing it, the GPU has to copy form ESRAM->GPU which would stall the pipeline and would be directly impacted upon how much data it has to move back (ie. Display resolution)
    In other words, regardless of what you actually "created" you'd have a hard coded traffic block slowing the GPU down.
    Something like that wold affect everything from shadow maps, through to G-buffers in deferred rendering. In other words some of the things you do use to build said frame.
    Last edited by mynd; 11-03-2013 at 00:30.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.