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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie123 View Post
    Did anyone actually fall for "ESRAM" and "CLOUD" ? I cant imagine what the lags going to be like if they ever use the cloud for anything more than keeping your gollem role playing character roaming middle earth while your asleep , or as it seems they are already planning to keep your driver racing while your not playing ......... load of rubbish.
    While I believe "cloud" for a performance gain is a pipe dream, while offering limited special features, we can't count the "ESRAM" yet. From what most techies say, there should be a few things the Xbone may even be able to excel at, whether those will have greater results than what the PS4's set up, remains to be seen.

    Things are rather stacked against MS this time, negative press aside. Both consoles have their dedicated bunch, so that's a wash. The enthusiast techies in this case will likely go for the PS4 simply because tech wise they loom similar but the results are strongly favoring Sony, which is why they'll like get the enthusiast gamer. The cost difference will have a big effect on parents buying for their kids (cheap bastards).

    The Kinect 2 is an oddity. Most people who had the Wii played very few games and are likely not looking to repeat buying something they believe they might barely use, plus the Sony camera is available for $40 less than the cost difference between the consoles. This is something that may or may not look better based on the games that support these peripherals, which doesn't help MS much in the mean time.

    Then you have the cheap gamers or the ones who won't spend too much on principle (yeah, right), obvious the money will play a bigger role, especially considering when the 360/PS3 launched, people had a lot more confidence in the economy than they do now.

    It would be crazy to believe that MS is in a stronger position than Sony. That doesn't even consider how much stronger of a brand Sony is WW, even with the year head start that MS had with the 360, Sony caught up, too little too late maybe, but that's still something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    For goodness sake I hope nobody thinks to start labelling the console an Xbrick,
    oops
    -Regarding the Xbone A.K.A. the Xbrick

    "Faith - that's another word for ignorance isn't it?" -House

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  3. #27
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    we all knew the ps4 is powerfull. cant waite to get the ps4 next week.
    i might get a wiiu in the spring

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    The gap will widen. Sony has over a dozen studios who all share their knowledge and expertise so when Naughty Dog comes up with some bat$#@! crazy new kung fu, all first party will know about it etc. XB1 will make improvements and will shift up a bit from where it is now but you can't do too much about those physical limitations. lol @ Turbo Jaggie Hyper
    Yeah, I cant wait to see what Sony's ICE team comes up with once they dive into the PS4 hardware.

  5. #29
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    Woody is a knob, I dislike him as a human being, for real, he's a low class person (though he's financially sound).

    What he said is accurate, but I have had a tough time educating particulars about the apparent PS4 superiority over the Xbox One.

    At a low level, the Xbox One and PS4 are more alike than any two consoles have ever been, this is the context of some of the developers comments regarding them being "the same", outside of that they're not the same at all.

    If these consoles were really the same, the hardware would be a testament to that, hardware side by side would be the same, software and developmental processes would have to be the same, heck, the games would be the same...

    "without optimization for either console, a platform-agnostic development build can run at around 30FPS in 19201080 on PS4, but it’ll run at “20-something” FPS in 1600900 on Xbox One. “Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,".

    ...but Xbox die hard fans would rather believe Albert Penello who's been caught out and guys like Carmack, who whilst is more than credible and sound, has not yet developed a title for either system to speak about any particulars related to the hardware.
    Last edited by A7MAD; 11-04-2013 at 17:55.
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

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  7. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    ... guys like Carmack, who whilst is more than credible and sound, has not yet developed a title for either system to speak about any particulars related to the hardware.
    Carmack can probably get Quake running at 30 FPS on a peanut soaked in formaldehyde. He's a good source for what's possible on a hardware architecture but not for what's practical on a hardware architecture.

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  9. #31
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    Can anyone tell me why I got a thumbs down on my post above? lol

    Anyway, I asked Carmack myself on Twitter and he replied.

    https://twitter.com/A7MADAU/status/397415268067979264
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

  10. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanfordmay View Post
    Agreed. PS3 developers narrowed the gap with Xbox 360 but the PS3 always had more performance power to tap, it was just a lot of learning and practice to tap it. XOne developers will have a rougher time climbing a hill rather than picking up speed rolling down a hill. But I wouldn't count them out. I used to work in both the games and graphics software industries, more in project management with public image concerns than engineering -- really what I did was PR, we just didn't call it PR -- but I worked closely with the principal software engineers and system designers. A lot of those men and women, the less you gave them to work with in minimum specs, the more they took it as a challenge, the more power they squeezed out of those lower end machines. The high-end graphics packages that only ran on monster workstations, anyway, a lot of the engineers got lazy and less creative with their code.

    Anyway, I'm substantially pleased to see PS4 coming out of the gate so strong. I've always loved my PS3 and its games and I didn't want Sony to turn a marketing stumble last gen into a life-threatening fall down a flight stairs this gen. The danger, though, is public opinion handing Sony the crown almost solely on performance specs. That's not guaranteed to make Sony cavalier about game quality and innovation but it reasonably runs the risk.

    I'm still looking forward to our launch XOne, too, though. I want to play Ryse and Dead Rising 3, and later Titanfall. Just as much as I want to play KZ SF and Knack, and later Second Son. I've been spending too much time on these forums, I think. It's getting under my skin. I'm all for countdown hype, and the 720p jokes are funny enough, but ultimately it doesn't matter much. I'm getting COD Ghosts for PS4 because I can play it first on PS4, not because it runs at 1080p. These are things that are very hard if not impossible to tell much difference while actually playing the games. They're what you can tell a difference running both systems side-by-side watching somebody else play the games. If I set up our PS4 and our XOne side-by-side with two identical TVs and I buy two copies of COD Ghosts, a copy for each platform, and I have one son play on the XOne and the other son play on the PS4 while I stand there trying to tell which version of the games looks better and by how much does it look better, well, somebody needs to pack me off to a comfortable institution for a nice, long rest and a handful of rainbow-colored pills every bedtime.
    Quote Originally Posted by sanfordmay View Post
    But we're not talking about an unmitigated disaster. Neither XOne nor PS4 will come out an Atari Jaguar. I think right now it's simpler than the reason you define. I think it's that people in general are extremely attached to their purchase choices and having the sense they made the "right" choice. PS4 people are all talking specs. XOne people are all talking game quality over specs. Right now, pre-launch, neither argument can be faulted. We can speculate on the potential flaws in those arguments, but we can't yet tell what points will trip up the consoles performance in the markets.

    It's iPhone or Android. Before that it was Mac or Windows. Before that it was Ford or Chevy. In free-market consumerist societies we often define ourselves most by what we choose to buy and then we defend our choices as if our whole identities will crumble if our purchase choice performs poorly, or just less well, in its market. There's room in a still-growing games market for WiiU, XOne and PS4. Some people will buy a couple, some all three, some just one. None of them need be objectively "better" than the others. Each one can play to its particular strengths. If that's how consumers presented their expectations to the manufacturers and developers, we'd get better, more diverse games. The vendors are going to play to the consumers' expectations for quality and tolerance for limitations. I think that's how we wound up with the quickly snatched back XOne DRM scheme. MS got such a head full of their own smoke they told themselves, We can shove anything we want down our 360 diehards' throats. Flip the last gen in the HD console market and Sony would have likely tried the exact same thing. The more open, gamer- and developer-friendly PS4 is a direct result of a very rough start for PS3.

    We complain about what companies do to us but to a great degree we are telling them very clearly what we'll let them do to us.
    This guy. I like this guy.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

  11. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    Can anyone tell me why I got a thumbs down on my post above? lol

    Anyway, I asked Carmack myself on Twitter and he replied.

    https://twitter.com/A7MADAU/status/397415268067979264
    But is Carmack referring to the power of the systems or the architecture design?

  12. #34
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    The XBox one might turn into this gens Sega Saturn

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  14. #35
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    The difference between PS3 last gen and Xbone this gen in terms of "untapped" power is that last gen, it was the general consensus that although PS3 had more powerful hardware, it was gonna take some work to get it out. In the end, we saw that quality come out in the exclusive games. This gen, it's the general consensus that PS4 is not only the more powerful hardware but also the easier of the two consoles to tap into.

    The PS3 caught up because of a robust library of games, largely exclusives, that set it apart. And judging from the way Microsoft approached this in the past, I have less than zero faith for them to put as much support into making quality exclusives. I expect them to come out strong in the early days, pick one commercial success, and milk it to death a la Gears of War. I hope they prove me wrong and give me a reason to want to go out and eventually buy one, but I just can't see it happening.


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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shibby View Post
    I hope they prove me wrong and give me a reason to want to go out and eventually buy one, but I just can't see it happening.
    Alan Wake sequel. I've got a launch edition XOne preordered just in case there's an exclusive Alan Wake sequel four years from now. No, that's not really the only reason. My sons and I want both consoles anyway and there's enough announced and potential we think it's worth it. But an Alan Wake sequel would justify my every XOne penny. I know, nobody cares. But I loved that game. I loved that game more than BioShock. There, I said it. I think Ken Levine is knocking down my front door this very minute. Would you kindly drop that wrench, Ken?

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  18. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    The XBox one might turn into this gens Sega Saturn
    Maybe this generation's other WiiU, but not a Saturn scale debacle. The Saturn was a holy mess inside. I mean seriously you ever see inside one of those? Looked like a plastic box full of spare Timex Sinclair parts. And wires. Lots of wires. On the software side, it was torture to develop for. XOne may not be as nice to develop for as PS4 but it's no Saturn. In fact, as far as I understand, XOne isn't hard to develop for. It's just hard to develop for to get PS4-level performance.

    You know honestly I think a lot of developers in the last couple years saying they didn't need new consoles for more power, but only to reinvigorate the games market, MS may have taken that to heart. Perhaps saw an opportunity to make a smaller jump between generations, make more money in hardware, or at least lose less per unit sold. Had Sony merely incremented along the same lines nobody would have noticed. What MS probably failed to consider, if Sony planned to fix PS3s development issues in PS4, they were going to have to retool from the ground up. Leaving plenty of room for blowing out the performance specs. I'll speculate MS gambled Sony would stick to their Byzantine architecture and, same as them, only increment performance. They lost that bet but considering Sony's past reputation for stone stubborn it wasn't a long-shot wager.

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  20. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    But is Carmack referring to the power of the systems or the architecture design?
    I can only assume he means power because I mention power in my question to him.

    I went a little further in a new question (same link), if he answers I'll mention it here.
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

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